Talk:Endless Online

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This article was nominated for deletion on April 29, 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.

This article was nominated for deletion on December 27, 2005. The result of the discussion was keep.

Contents 1 Old, unsectioned comments 2 Major Update 3 OK, some cleanup needed. 4 Things that should be added 5 Several Edits 6 And again... 7 Application of Wikipedia:Last Resort Solution 8 Needs content 9 Editting 10 User at 68.74.189.233

[edit] Old, unsectioned comments

Honestly, stop reverting the page if you know nothing about it.

Honestly, stop vandalising the page because the Wikipedia Administration is not a pretty sight when they don't get their morning coffee and have to deal with a vandal infestation. They get bloodlusty if they miss the coffee. --Wwwwolf 17:30, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

GEEK —the preceding unsigned comment is by 172.212.44.241 (talk • contribs)

No, not greek. the vandals sacked Rome, not Greece. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 19:34, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Major Update

I decided to update this article. Deleted everything except the links and started from scratch. If you've got a problem with what I wrote, PM Fundrei on the official EO forums. —the preceding unsigned comment is by Hydrae (talk • contribs)

No problems, thought the article sure could use some "drying up" and editing for more encyclopedic style. Someone decided to stick this in deletion; If this thing survives, or before that, this thing could use some cleanup. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 23:40, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] OK, some cleanup needed.

Some issues I have with this article, which should be cleaned up...

There's a whole lot of stuff that applies to MMORPGs in general. "The biggest problem in Endless online is Kill stealing (Ksing)" - um, killstealing is older than heaven and not specific to Endless Online. Same with the scam and admin-punishments. Someone who has played the game and preferrably some other online games should look into these things. It's almost as if you'd be making a making-of documentary of a modern movie and saying "We used computer technology to make this movie's special effects! A computer is a thing that, when you push a button on its keyboard, a letter appears on the screen!" Get the drift? Conciseness is valued in Wikipedia - this is an encyclopedia, not a game guide or a game critique site.

And for heaven's sake, if there's something wrong with the game, a simple statement of the fact that something bad is afoot is enough. "The established user community has reputation of harsh judgement, especially toward those who they view as inexperienced newbies, minding especially about the use of language." This is good. This, however, would not be so good: "...about the use of language. For example, there has been cases of players getting tortured, punched, dipped in swamp cow poo, drawn and quartered, sliced, halved, quartered, halved again, and forced to listen to Ayumi Hamasaki for 256 hours straight without bathroom breaks, for uttering the vilest, most despicable word, 'teh'." See? There's no point in over-explaining things. We, the unknowing readers, get the idea.

So someone's task would be to tell of the features of the game in detail, and good and bad sides of the game. In brief. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 19:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• Also some NPOV problems in the section regarding the admins. --Kerowyn 01:08, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Things that should be added

I have never played Endless online, and from the way this page sounds, I have nooo idea what it's like. Is it 2D or 3D? Does it use sprites? What kind of battle system does it use? Is it more of a social MMORPG, or is there leveling up and crap? Are there different classes, or is it like Runescape and just increases stats as you go? Can you pay real money and get more benefits? Is there PvP in this game? These, and many more questions, need to be answered in the page, instead of all the complaining that's going on on the page about how crappy the EO world is. Just my two cents SuperDT 08:42, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Several Edits

I removed the section of "community" that stated:

Unfortunately the current state of the community in Endless Online is - to say the least - abysmal. Many players of Endless Online have little or no respect for anyone, including administrators themselves! As for the administrators, there seem to be little care regarding upholding the rules and keeping the bad elements away. Unfortunately this is not a good game to visit if community is important to you. An example of this is listed below.

On February 25, 2006, an administrator named Rexor hosted an event with a series of 12 questions. These questions had multiple answers but Rexor chose the most accurate. Users had to PM (private message) him with the correct answer in order to recieve the prize. People would complain about the administrator not selecting them for the right answer and made rude remarks. The tie was split between 3 people and the rest of the participants were left with nothing but a frown and anger.

I feel this is too opinionated, and serves more as a complaint towards an event then as an actual fact. During my stay at EO, the admins have been kind and helpful, as have the players, so it cannot truthfully be said that everyone is disrespectful.

I also made edits to the Weapons section, the Armor section, and the PvP section. All were used just as complaints, and not as actual descriptions of the features.

If you have any problem, contact Sterling Fox at the official Endless-online forums or by email at Kremno@aol.com

I recall this particular incident well. One of the questions was "What is the capital of Holland?". My own answer of 'Amsterdam' (a city with which I have more than a passing acquaintance) was refused in favour of an answer of 'Holland'. I might still have the log somewhere, it is rather amusing. --TheMadTim 03:46, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] And again...

I just generally went through the article, and I added 2 sentences here or there, fixed grammar in the admin section, etc.

Then I went through a few minutes ago and added the tags on the first page. I know that's a lot of tags to deal with, but tonight I will see if I can edit this article enough to get rid of them. By the way, I was reading through the Delete archive, and I wanted to know something.

I have played the game for a few months now. I have seen no reason to accuse people of racism, verbal abuse, etc., except in very isolated and rare cases. I especially have NEVER seen an Admin being racist or otherwise 'mean' to users. I just wanted to know if the claims about Sakura being a drug abuser and other Admins being racist actually had any basis on FACT, or if they were simply a sockpuppets ramblings.t.z0n3 March 13th, 2006, 8:44 AM

[edit] Application of Wikipedia:Last Resort Solution

I know, I know, it's radical. However, the fact that an article can be such poorly written that it warrants over a page worth of maintenance boxes really asks the question: after weeks or possibly months of re-writing, would we have much of the same writing anyways? The almost-total blanking was done so that the article can get a fresh start; hopefully we will be more meticulous in the article's development so that the maintenance boxes may not return. WP:BOLD and WP:IAR states that while this is still a community, this is a wiki. Therefore, things need to be done quickly to ensure Wikipedia's development of article remains smooth. Let's get to work on making this a great article! —MESSEDROCKER (talk) 02:43, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree... *sighs* Though I really didn't want to have to write the whole thing by myself... -_-' t.z0n3

Alright, I added 'Gameplay' to the article. t.z0n3

[edit] Needs content

So far this article is thin and lacks content. Unfortunately, the majority of the EO community is unwilling to assist and vandals have undone the work that the few that did work did. JTFryman 20:34, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

If there were sources to cover every aspect of the game, that'd be lovely. However, we cannot allow unsourced statements on Wikipedia. If you can find sources for each piece of information, I commend you to list that source, but until then, it's unverifiable research. —THIS IS MESSEDOCKER (TALK) 10:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Editting

Ok, I am an avid player of EO and once again I am going to edit this article and hope that vandals don't delete all my work this time. Just a 'notice' that I'm going to start editting this page, so within 48 or maybe 72 hours from now, the page should be what it should be, and a lot more than what it is now. Damo271190 20:49, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate your decision to improve the article, however, it was removed not as an act of malice, but because it was all unreferenced. Unreferenced work does not belong in Wikipedia. To help combat a lack of viable source for the article, I've sent an e-mail to Endless Online (quite a while ago) to get them to set up their own gameplay guide (no other site seems to have one). But until nice references come out, a lot of the content simply isn't allowed. I hate to be playing the bad guy, but the policies are set for a good reason. —THIS IS MESSEDOCKER (TALK) 11:00, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

No offense, but most of the material for an independent online MMO is going to be unreferenced. They don't have a user guide, they just have what it is. I'm sorry, but if things cannot be unreferenced, then the whole George Dubyah article needs to be deleted, and then they can start over. Every other day, some liberal goes on there and posts the newest conspiracy theory... -_-' t.z0n3

If it's going to be unreferenced, it's not going to be allowed. While wiping out the entire article was indeed extreme action, Wikipedia needs to be able to satisfy a certain quality of articles (generally speaking, if there's an entire first page of complaint templates, a substub is generally better). Indeed, the article on George W. Bush attracts plenty of negative attention, but the only problem seems to be vandalism. Endless Online, in addition to massive amounts of vandalism, the article was unencyclopedic, biased... the list goes on. I honestly don't see myself blanking the article again (that'd be too much), but I don't want this article to slip the cracks. The policies may seem to be harsh on MMORPGs, but we have standards, too. —THIS IS MESSEDOCKER (TALK) 21:51, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Then perhaps you or someone else (who has more free time than me) should get an interview with the admins themselves? According to you, things have to be referencable, and if not to the admins in this situation, then who else? I'm sorry for disagreeing. I'm kind of a newbie here, so don't mind my idiocy, or anything. t.z0n3

Information on Wikipedia needs to be verifiable — that is, published by a reputable source. To use a self-conducted personal interview directly as a source would be vbad, because no other readers could actually confirm what was said in the interview — or, indeed, whether the interview actually took place at all. On the other hand, if a reputable source — say, The New York Times or even Computer Gaming World or IGN — published an interview, then we could include that as a source. But to make oneself a primary source is to engage in original research, which is forbidden. Even if this seems restrictive, it's actually for a good reason: Since anybody can edit articles, we have to insist on reliable references so that everyone knows where the information came from. — TKD::Talk 02:21, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

...OKAY, then YOU come up with something. ^^ t.z0n3

I just read the artcle on the verifiable thing. I have come to the conclusion that, because there is no 'official' information PUBLISHED about Endless Online, that apparently, it does not deserve an article. Before you go off and tell me I can't say this, let me explain:

-There is no scource for any of this information, nor will there most likely EVER be.

-There is no way to GET information, since we can't conduct our own research.

-Using these two facts in conjunction, one can come to the logical conclusion that the article Endless Online apparently has no place in Wikipedia.

I'm sorry I have to say that, because I don't really want it deleted, but if only cited information is allowed, and this HAS NO CITED INFORMATION, then what else are we to do? t.z0n3

Thank GOD somebody got some citations. We still need some on the bottom half, can somebody take care of that? And if they'd just come out with a blamed LINUX version of this, I could play again. ^^ t.z0n3

[edit] User at 68.74.189.233

Hi dude. You might wanna change your IP. I understand that when you sign in with the client, your username and pass are sent to the game server in plain text. Knowing the EO community, it wouldn't surprise me if someoe was to start listening in on the game server for conections from your IP, then recording the packets to analyse them for your username and pass. Incidentally, I used to be BillyTheFish in EO. I owned the Arena, and no dang blasted packet editing toolz were used. --Tess Tickle 13:25, 5 August 2006 (UTC)