Talk:Emo (slang)

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Contents 1 A new approach? 2 Responce to first comment 3 Two separate sections? 4 Emo song. 5 Why is this page protected? 6 Edit to Disputation Statement

[edit] A new approach?

I think it's been clearly established that emo is one of the most ambiguous labels we've come up with in the world. Our current attempts to get a good definition of it aren't going real well. I suggest we take what we have done in the article, and merge relevant information into other articles (such as editing the Goth article to include any relevant emo information). I believe this label is currently beyond the scope of an encyclopedia in its current state, and we should wait unil our culture can create a more unifying idea of what emo truly us. Thoughts? Nodnarb232001 19:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't really care about what happens to the article at the moment (when I get the chance, I'll go through it and post my thoughts afterwards). What I really want to talk about is the talk page. Before I archived it, it was almost 80 kilobytes long and the only reason it was that big is because people keep posting all of this useless crap that doesn't do anything for the article or Wikipedia itself. If it weren't for that, the talk page would probably be half as long and we wouldn't have to archived it (although when editing the page, it would have said something about how long it is and tell you to archive it). So unless you have something to say that could benefit the article, like what Nodnarb232001 wrote, please don't post anything at all. // Sasuke-kun27 20:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

As a "user", I was after info to help understand what my teenage son was on about. Currently the article does not quite match what I've been hearing here (in New Zealand). Could that be because, as a youth culture label, the term 'emo' is constantly changing or evolving? I'm not suggesting the current article is wrong, just not complete or up to date, or there are regional differences. I've also been told that the evolution of Emo has some connection to MySpace (As a means of sharing the look?). Any thoughts of these ideas? --Alisterb 01:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC) The only thing you need to know about emo is that it is fuckin lame, and your kid should get out into the fuckin sunshine or dragged over to Iraq. Kids these days are just submitting to mtv's version of alternative and independant. Dashboard confessional is ot music; it's nuetard kats skr3ming.

Simply because our world culture has yet to specifically define the term doesn't mean it is invalid and should be merged. For example, the United States population is having a major conflict just defining the "war in Iraq". The term is definitely legitimate slang for a cultural subgroup (at least in my part of the United States). It may be used differently in different areas but in my location I could easily define "emo". It may not be uniformly used across the world but certainly in certain regions it has a clearer definition. In any case, I don't think the term should be removed/merged. 67.21.19.23 16:00, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, this article sucks. No, emo has nothing to do with goth. Part of the problem is you're trying define "emo" the word, not the "emo" scene/subculture/whatever. Cedars 20:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

^Exactly, emo has nothing at all to do with goth, gothic subculture, music or anything. - Deathrocker 00:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Responce to first comment

Dont Merge in with Goth, Goth is NOT emo

71.98.16.172 00:17, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

How so? The similarities between Goth and Emo are numerous and uncanny. Nodnarb232001 09:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Lol I Agree. Goths and Emos are VERY different. It seems like everyone is Emo these days.

Emo's are a rip-off goth's. All they want is attention.

Goth and emo have almost nothing to do with each other. The only vague connections I can pull up are that both are derived from punk and both have an image in the mainstream of being depressed, self-harming and/or suicidal. Even then, goths (tend to) play down that aspect, whereas emos will play it up. A brief mention that some trends previously assoicated with "goth" are now associated with "emo" is fine, but nothing more. -Switch ^t 06:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

They play it down? I always thought wearing black leather, fishnet stockings, Marilyn Manson T-shirts, piercings, corpse make-up, and excessive mascara made it more obvious. Emos are moderately dressed in comparison. Rintrah 14:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't know any goths who own Marilyn Manson shirts. Maybe it was a typo and you meant to type Bauhaus or The Sisters of Mercy? ;) In any case, I shall clarify: Emo kids play to the media image of them as depressed, suicidal, self-harming. They act the part, complain about how hard their white male middle-class suburban life is, even pretend to be depressed when they aren't. Goths don't actually assoicate themselves with that kind of thing, it is a stereotype applied to them by mainstream media; in fact, in my experience, goths tend to resent that stereotype, and they try to distance themselves from it. -15:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I admit my knowledge of gothdom is poor, but I am sure I have seen many in Manson T-shirts; however, I have seen very few Bauhaus or The Sisters of Mercy ones. Have you ever been to Flinders Street Station in Melbourne? Goths are conspicuous there, and their dissociation from everyone else is presented starkly. It seems a poor strategy to stand out with a peculiar dress sense indicating alienation and depression, yet resent the negative media attribution. There might be a whole underworld of a gothic subculture unknown to me, but to my knowledge, in my city, Melbourne, the goths at Flinders street typify the subculture. All the goths I have known, which I admit are few, have expressed the desire to make their differences known. But I agree with you, goths seem less like crybabies than emos. Rintrah 15:49, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

ok, the whole 'Goth v. Emo' thing; When I think of Goth, I think of a subculture that dresses in more lacy, almost medevil inspired dark clothing, they listen to bands like Bauhaus, or Skinny Puppy, even the Damned and the like. Goth was more popular in the '80s and '90s. The attitudes were more of a melancoly, longing sort of emotional, S&M sexual sort of thing. When I think of EMO, I think of a subculture that dresses in a sort of punk-goth hybrid, the hair dye, the little black outfits with splashes of strange colors, the wrist bands, the pins on the jackets and bags. All of these are expressed either in Goth and punk. They listen to bands like My Chemical Romance and Dashboard Confessional, which IMO is a bit of a cry from the punk and goth music of The Damned (goth)or The Minutemen or even the Ramones (punk).People of the EMO culture that I've had dealings with, seem to almost feel 'oh woe is me' martyr, nobody understands me sort of thing. Goth was a bit more 'the world is a terrible place' almost existential sort of thing. Comparing the music of goth and punk is Similar to the comparison of 'new punk' to 'old schoolpunk', which would be like comparing Green Day to Fuguzi. Again, just watered down versions of the original. My point of reference comes from living in NYC but then again, it could be different regionally.

...but emo is the new goth; the new "in" counterculture of today's mid-school to college youth. Despite emo being almost totally different from goth, the mainstream culture's reaction is as it has been to teenage culture through the generations. "Oh no, that Elvis - that John Lennon - that Ozzy - that Kurt Cobain - that Marilyn Manson - will corrupt our youth and shake the very foundations of civilization!" This is the turnover; this is the new era. Soon the advertisers will focus on the emo as they focused on the goth. Before you know it, there'll be a major character in a mainstream television drama that dresses emo, sounds emo, but otherwise is just there to reassure the parental generation that their kids are okay. This is the way of the world. --BlueNight 21:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Two separate sections?

Maybe the page should be split or re-written as two pages: Emo(slang) and Emo(sterotype)
I'd be willing to do it
(with some help of course) any thoughts? Kirbyrocks 22:19, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

This Page needs to be deleted, emos do not exist according to themselves, they just want to go die so why should they have a page? it makes no sense.Papageorgio 15:01, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

That's a good idea, though there will probably still be people posting comments about one on the other's talk page. To Papageogio: you're right that the frequent comments about emos not existing are absurd. It seems to operate on a logic similar to 'There is no way to define "big" precisely; therefore, big things don't exist and there is no point describing them." But I think the second part cannot be entirely true; for the emos who post on this page don't seem dead. If there are any dead emos who contribute to this article, leave a message on my talk page. Ernest Hemingway expressed a fondness for self-inflicted shotgun wounds, yet he has a page of his own. Rintrah 17:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC) While I am still on this talk page, I want to make another comment: can people posting on this page stop treating it like MySpace and msn? This is about an encyclopedia article, not a place for random speculations and dimly thought out opinions. Rintrah 17:30, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Emo song.

Should it be mentioned? Most people know what I mean you can find it anywhere, but ill post a link later. That song (if not true) is still better than the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 164.116.40.13 (talk) 21:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC).

I have no objection to it but others do. If you post a link to it, it will probably be deleted. Rintrah 02:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Since the "Emo Song" is like a part of the emo phenomena, shouldn't it be mentioned somewhere that there is a connection between emo and myspace as well as it being common for "scene kids" or "emo kids" to wear girl pants? 172.166.35.118 03:03, 11 December 2006 (UTC)PhyreChild

I think you mean "phenomenon", but it's not really the right word either. People do keep bringing up the connection of emo to myspace; I am starting to believe there is something substantial to these rumours. Yes, tight jeans are popular — surely, no one is going to deny this? The article does have a problem with the lack of sources, however; so we should be hesistant at adding rumours and unsourced assertions. There should be magazine articles which describe the emo subculture — has no one found any of those? Emos strongly stand out, but so many people whine on this page how it is impossible to pinpoint them — yeah, sure. Rintrah 14:45, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't see why the two should be seperated, Emo's attempt to live UP to their stereotype, they don't try and turn down those views unless they're doing it for more attention or because it's something they can feed off of for emotional pain.

If you mean "The Emo Song", as featured on YTMND, it is a mocking satire of the phenomenon, and as such, posting the lyrics ("Dear diary...") is POV. However, mentioning that the "song" exists is NPOV. As for the Myspace connection, perhaps a mention of melodramatic blogs and other Internet postings in general is in order instead. --BlueNight 09:08, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps. But can anyone find references? Do they exist?! Re unsigned, anonymous poster: just as the taste of diesel and mould can be separated, so can emos and goths. Rintrah 12:32, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why is this page protected?

And what is up with this global-conspiracy nonsense at the end of the first paragraph:

"Even though it is a group of kids it has leadership that resembles a monarchy. The knowledge of this is very discreet."

Don't make factual assertions, especially far-out ones like this, without some kind of support for your assertions. If you have some evidence of this global emo-conspiracy, post it. If not, take it out.

And unprotect this page while you are at it.

Jjobrien3 18:27, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

The page was semi-protected to prevent edits such as the one you mentioned. It was semi-protected so that most users may still edit the article but apparently that's not really working out. The last thing we want right now is to unprotect the page and unleash a swarm of vandals (especially vandal-only IPs). The edit you mentioned has already been reverted, so you don't need to worry about that. If anymore vandals strike, users who still have the privilige to edit the article, such as myself, will fix it as soon as possible. // Sasuke-kun27 18:35, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edit to Disputation Statement

In accordance with the need to clarify the source(s) of dispute over the description of the emo subculture, I would like to point out that it would be efficient to change the sentence "The factual accuracy of this article or section is disputed." to include a paraphrase to pinpoint the origin of said dispute. My proposed edit would show as follows: "The factual accuracy of this article or section is disputed (by emo fags)." This would then help readers to gain a truer understanding of the context in which this definition of "emo" is being formed.

Grandpa, 12-11-06 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.102.159.206 (talk) 23:09, 11 December 2006 (UTC).