Talk:Elizabeth Clare Prophet
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[edit] The Dark Side
Large parts of this section seem sharply POV, especially statements like "she effectively negated and demonized all natural human impulses. This is a common pitfall of all religions. By falling into this trap, she also cut herself off from being able to see and correct her own dark side." Here and elsewhere, the article expressly takes a stand against the subject. Lines like "Knowledgeable insiders have also told of the sharing of information from confession letters" need some sort of attribution. I'm not sure if it is possible to rewrite this section without the bais, and if it is I don't have the information neccessary to do so. Unless somebody can come up with a way, I'm inclined to delete the entire section. Other parts of the article indicate point of view as well, but fixing or eliminating this section will be a big step forward. PotatoKnight 06:06, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
PotatoKnight, I added some references and deleted some of the more biased statements. Will do more as there is time. Question: how does one go about resolving NPOV disputes and getting the disputed designation removed? --BlackSun 04:19, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks, that looks much, much better. It would seem that someone took the tag off, which is fine with me. There are still a few issues, but I'm pretty well satisfiedPotatoKnight 07:55, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] A very strange article indeed.
I put the NPOV tag back, as this is obviously, well... Something else. This article makes statements, as fact, without qualifiers, that say this woman was able to communicate Jesus Christ and Buddha. To me, that makes this article not only POV, but also, beyond whacky. The fact is, most of this article is jibberish. Large portions of it should be simply deleted. Every little far fetch idea this woman had does not need to be enumerated here. Andyluciano 06:15, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Tried to make NPOV
I tried to make this article as NPOV as possible. No matter how 'strange' it is, there are people who believed in the 'dictations.' In no way was I trying to insinuate in the article that the claims were true. Only that she made them, and some people believed them. So now that you've inserted language such as "she claimed" etc. what else would you like to see changed to ensure a neutral point of view?
The events discussed happened, and it's important for them to be documented as a part of the history of the "new age" and of modern cultic relgions in America.
BlackSun 21:39, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
- Well put and I believe that the article clearly states what happened and is NPOV. I heard her speak and my first wife's ever increasing involvement with the group in part led to our separation. Doc 20:45, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you. I couldn't agree more. I was exposed to Prophet's doctrines along with the Ballards' I AM as a teenager. Prophet's "cosmic channeled truths" were ripped off the Ballards, who had ripped them off of Theosophy, Spiritualism and the ideas of Marie Corelli, among others (see The Ballards & St Germain Exposed.
- What you see today on the tsl.org website is extremely watered down from what it was in the 1970s. It's not whether or not Prophet actually had any powers -- I don't believe she did, other than carny mentalism -- the ability to read body language, vocal, breathing and eye reflexes -- which gives the appearance of psychic power. It's the fact that like Mary Baker Eddy or Aimee Semple McPherson (whom she deliberately emulated) she existed and promoted a belief system which affected thousands of people.
- I know that there is a lot of sentiment against including articles about subjective matters such as belief systems on Wikipedia. I edited one on what people believe about visitations of the Virgin Mary and was told I was "credulous" and that such articles were "sad". This so-called skepticism is actually detraction. A real skeptic simply says "I need to see more proof". --Bluejay Young 09:56, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Keeping the Discussion Page clean
I've just deleted some derogatory comments about Elizabeth Clare Prophet from this discussion page as they served no purpose. I have also corrected some of the factual information in the article concerning church practices. Sean, as Mrs. Prophet's own son who was involved in the church for quite some time, I'm very surprised that you could write such inaccuracies as saying that "The Lord's ritual of exorcism" is an affirmation. I'm also amazed at your very specific (and unnecessary to this article)criticisms against your mother. However, thank you for putting your knowledge into this article. -Marie
- Marie, the aforementioned decree entitled "The Lord's ritual of exorcism" was used extensively for exorcisms as described. Someone has now removed this information. Everything in the article is factual to the best of my knowledge, from my nearly 30 years in the organization. Also, I took pains to paint an accurate if simplified picture of the core spiritual teachings of the organization (in which I was a minister). Why would I do that if I wasn't making an extra effort to be neutral? I don't think people should shrink from the truth, however. Even though I no longer believe the teachings in any form, there are many lessons to be learned by studying the actions and legacy of ECP. These are far more revealing than her words alone. BlackSun 08:28, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Marie, it is not your place or anyone's place to "keep the discussion page clean." This is a place for discusssion and no one should edit another person's remarks! Archive if you wish, but do not edit or remove. Also you can sign your name using three tildes (~). If you use four, you can add a datestamp too. But please, add your own thoughts, don't change or delete the words of others. Doc 01:29, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] montessori international
I am puzzled, and I am hoping that someone can clarify things a little.
The article says that "In 1970, the Prophets founded Montessori International, a school based on the principles of the acclaimed educator Dr. Maria Montessori" - sourced presumably (as a wild guess) from The Summit Lighthouse site. Yet doing a search on the web gets nothing by the name of "Montessori International". There are numerous Motessori organizations, as the name is not trademarked. The closest match is link Association Montessori Internationale, and there is no mention that I can see of the Prophets. Is this different from Montessori International? if so, perhaps the article can mention that Montessori International and Montessori Internationale are two different entities?
• Added language clarifying that the Prophets used the name "Montessori International" for their own community school. My parents at one point I believe were affiliated with the Pan-American Montessori Society, but not the AMI as far as I recall. BlackSun 01:07, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
