Talk:Eastern Gray Squirrel

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents 1 Photo, links. 2 Reduction in reds. 3 Michigan. 4 Chicago area. 5 Red Eurasian, songbirds. 6 Spelling 7 Black squirrels 8 New pictures

[edit] Photo, links.

I've changed the picture on this page, because the one we had looked more like a Fox Squirrel. I have also removed a whole lot of links, that were either unnecessary or frankly unhelpful - I think it's overdoing things to link from a page like this to the forks of trees or the exterior walls of homes. seglea 04:16, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Reduction in reds.

"At the turn of the 20th century it was introduced into South Africa and England, spreading across the latter and leading to a reduction in the population of the native Red Squirrel in most parts of England and Wales."

This has always bugged me. How did grey squirrels manage to get rid of most of the red ones? Or is this just a misconception? -- Smjg 12:21, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

No, It's very likely to be the true scenario. It seems it's mostly due to competition for resources, with the larger, stronger greys winning a larger share of the available food. Also in there is a bit of biological warfare - the greys are more resistant to a disease that kills many reds (the greys are carriers) and a bit of adaptability on the part of the greys - reds simply aren’t as at home in the city parks the greys thrive in - so habitation loss hits the reds harder.

http://www.wildlifetrust.org.uk/durham/RedAlert/RedAlert.html gives quite a good summary of all this. -- sannse (talk) 19:12, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Just looked at it. But it still amazes me how one little species, of which there can't have been millions to start with, can have managed to virtually wipe out another, closely related species. I suppose that, if only there were sufficient food and habitats that appeal to only the red ones, the two could happily coexist. And if only someone set up an anti-parapox immunisation programme.... -- Smjg 17:20, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Because they are American squirrels, and as we all know everything American is far superior to its European counterparts. 137.21.66.141 19:53, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

If you have access to the technical biological literature, look up research papers by the Belgian ecologist L. A. Wauters, who has documented in depressing detail the impact of the greys on the red squirrels' fitness, in both Britain and Italy. I'll add an example reference to the page in a tick. seglea 19:41, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

>> Hi, I just want to comment about this because I've been following it for sometime. Unfortunately, I'm away and I don't have any of the references. The idea that the greys out compete the reds is fallacious in my estimation - and I have been following both species for some 25 years now. It is the infection which is the primary problem - the greys brought the illness, which the reds have no resistance to. The reds survive in good numbers where the disease did not reach, such as the Isle of Wight (where I grew up). There are several reasons why I doubt that overcompetition is a major factor in the greys beating out the reds, chiefly:

1. The habitat and hence diet of the two species differ. The red squirrels primary habitat is coniferous forests; they eat the seeds of pine cones. Grey squirrels rarely if ever each pine seeds, preferring the seeds of broadleaved trees, as as the acorn. (The greys also occupy cities, of course, which the reds avoid). 2. Although the red squirrel and the American red squirrel are different species, in forests in Canada both the American red squirrel and the grey squirrel co-exist quite comfortably - chiefly for the reason mentioned in (1) above 3. In Scotland, they have managed to provide the grey's immunity to the relevant infection to the local population of red squirrels. Result? Both species coexist, and red squirrel populations are on the rise again.

I haven't read the sociobiology paper quoted, but I am somewhat doubtful of its conclusions. It is certainly possible that there is direct competition between the species in places where greys and reds coexist but it is highly unlikely that this is the key factor in their forcing out the red squirrels given the issues raised above.

At the very least I suggest rewriting this piece to upgrade the importance of the infection and downgrade the importance of inter-species competition, which I consider to be highly speculative, and quite possibly skewed by prior assumptions.

Anyway, I don't really know how this aspect of the Wikipedia works but as I am starting to realise that I am close to being an expert on squirrels (which is odd, because professionally I am a game designer!) and therefore I wanted to contribute some perspective.

Do with this information as you will - discard it if you wish. Best wishes! (CMB) <<

Albino (white) squirrels are also fairly common in Westerville, Ohio (a suburb of Columbus), especially on the campus of Otterbein University in Westerville.

[edit] Michigan.

hi i have a vacation house in pullman michigan usa, and i have seen gray, black and red squirrels, all apparently similar to the eastern gray squirrel. also it was suggested to me that much of the squirrel poluation of europe was killed by starving people in WW2. thanks!

[edit] Chicago area.

I've seen black squirrels as far north as Mount Prospect, and as far west as two miles west of the Fox River.

[edit] Red Eurasian, songbirds.

The Wikipedia article on the Red Eurasian Squirrel suggests that a factor favouring the grey in competition with the red in places where the grey has been introduced is the ability of the grey to easily digest acorns, something the reds lack.

Reports in the UK press (24/05/06) suggest that the Grey Squirrel is a factor in the decline of songbirds through predation. These seem to originate from a UK chaity called Songbird Survival whose website suggest that greys eat bird's eggs and fledglings (see http://www.songbird-survival.org.uk/squirrels.html?link=predators).

It would be useful if the Eastern Gray Squirrel entry could clarify these assertions by having a paragraph on diet.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.168.69.241 (talk • contribs) 2006-05-29t10:27:29z.

[edit] Spelling

An anon. has been through changing "Gray" to "Grey" in the name of the animal throughout. Since the species originates in the US (mainly), standard practice is that it should have US spelling (except when referring to its name in Europe, which is clearly "Grey Squirrel" - it doesn't get the "Eastern" either). However it may be that for some historical reason the usual spelling in the US is in fact "Grey" - can an American with access to authoritative local sources comment please? thanks. seglea 17:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Just one more example of the problems using common names as synonyms - If we simply used the binmomial name it would solve so many problems here and elsewhere ! However, for what it is worth (and probably not much) Google gives 1.15 million hits for Eastern Gray Squirrel and 1.22 million for Eastern Grey Squirrel. Given that a number of those hits probably come from European and British sites, it looks as if it is about even between Gray and Grey. Interstingly the split does seem to have no logic, with a site in Mitchigan using Grey [1] and a site in Virginia using Gray [2] . It is isn't helped by the inconcistenecy between this articles title and its text. As it is an American species, I would be content with a consensus view from the American side of the argument as long as the specific references in the text to the issues in the UK can continue to simply call it the Grey squirrel. Mrs Trellis 13:20, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I use "gray", and consider it the normal US spelling. "Grey" sounds very British to me. --Blah2 01:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Black squirrels

Without objections, I'm going to add Princeton University to list of places noted for large numbers of black squirrels (they're pretty well known here - they even mention the squirrels in the university tour!) BethEnd 21:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New pictures

Use them if you want.

Good lord those are beautiful pics. I live in Spokane WA, USA and I'm trying to determine whether the one living in my yard is an Eastern, a Western, or a Douglas. The pictures I've taken of it very clear, and I'm probably about 50% sure its not a Western. (it seems to have more color, like an orange tint on the belly, but this is out of my own hazy recollection- Also, I'm told Westerns are nearly extinct in this area) I'm trying to research some definative differences, but does anyone have any quick ideas?--Arkcana 19:20, 18 October 2006 (UTC)