Talk:East Bay Ray

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Contents 1 Luv his work 2 DOB? 3 Now a Wikipedian? 4 NPOV dispute 5 Press release writing? 6 Reverting good information with the bad? 7 Dispute 8 Nephew of East Bay Ray 9 Vandalism

[edit] Luv his work

his work with frenchy was great.

Didn't he produce one or two of the earlier MDC albums? --Jkonrath 23:58, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DOB?

Could use some birth information.

i heard he actually wasn't influenced by surf music at all, more the old western music and stuff like that. if i (or anyone else) can find a source for this, it should be changed.

[edit] Now a Wikipedian?

Maybe we should add {{Notable Wikipedian|Dead-kennedys}} to this talk page. I suspect Ray of contributing as User:Dead-kennedys, considering the recent vandalism this person has done to Biafra's article and other DK related articles in an attempt to make them look more favorable towards Ray. -- LGagnon 15:27, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Go for it. If it turns out to be incorrect, it can always be removed. --Cjmarsicano 18:47, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV dispute

Information is cited that supports one view while important information that opposes it is omitted, resulting in this section pushing a certain point of view. The whole anti-corporate discussion has a faulty premise, licensing to major film corporations was done by the band since the beginning, “Neighbors,” 1981,“Class,” 1983. Black Flag did a skateboard video. Lengthy discussion of the court case would seem to be more appropriate on Dead Kennedys. Here’s a suggested simplified version of this paragraph, or leave this issue out all together:

"In the late 90's, East Bay Ray headed the legal struggle that restored the ownership of Dead Kennedys intellectual property to the band and to secure royalties that Jello Biafra was found by the courts to have defrauded from his fellow bandmates. Biafra claims he did not defraud them.” http://www.phillaw.com/html/dkappeal.html

the factual section of the appeals document verifies Ray being one of the founders of Alternative Tentacles Records

Again, no source is given for the “critics & fans” opinion, and could be there just push a point of view. Ray's studio credits can be verified by the CD’s, the old Alternative Tentacles CD, “Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death” and http://www.guitarplayer.com/story.asp?sectioncode=8&storycode=13455 Other projects http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:3d9fs33ba3rg~T1

Mediation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2006-04-27_Dead_Kennedy -- Bob

What a bunch of crap, "bob". Everyone knows that the "legal struggle" was because the solo records and post-DK bands were terrible. I dare you to find one single positive review for Skrapyard. Ask anyone in attendence at The Chris Grayson memoral.

"Everyone knows" is not a verifiable source. And from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view "There should not be any tone of either hagiography or hatchet job."

The reverts are getting silly... I've read the last number of revisions back to the revision as of 06:44, 27 April 2006... That particular edit is likely the most grossly POV laden one of the bunch, sounding like a poorly written press release with words like "voodoo" and "paranoid" used as adjectives where they make no sense. That alone doesn't make the piece POV, just bad. The last handful of edits appear to be a couple people trying to state that the article is POV in a different way. The latest revision now has two POV boxes for some reason... If you're going to revert, list the EXACT reasons on the talk page. Xinit 20:30, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I've also noticed the two citations for passages which claim that Biafra used "... the assistance of a large corporate law firm specializing in defending toxic polluters and insurance companies against patients, was found guilty of defrauding the band" do not lead to any source information. These should be verified, made to coincide with NPOV or deleted. Progkeeg 19:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Read the citation more close. Biafra did not, Ray did, and it's been cited, cross-referenced, and external-linked.Rsm99833 04:33, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Press release writing?

"East Bay Ray crafted a distant and driving guitar style that was clever, cinematic and epically paranoid in sound" -- Sounds like marketing speak; how does a guitar SOUND paranoid? Does it talk about black helicopters? Xinit 19:42, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Taking that part out.Rsm99833 14:44, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion: "Biafra, with the assistance of a large corporate law firm, Carroll, Burdick & McDonough LLP, specializing in defending toxic polluters and insurance companies against patients, "... - This bit about the law firm's other clients really has nothing to do with EBR, IMHO. Suggest removing the 'specalizing in' clause above. TVN 23:00 28 July 2006

Doesn't work, as that Biafra was *not* represented by that firm- EBR & Dead Kennedys were. Rsm99833 03:21, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, my bad. I'm removing the notation, as that there is no notation that is who represented Biafra. If there is, please provide. ThanksRsm99833 03:29, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reverting good information with the bad?

There's entire chunks of what would seem to be good information being reverted with the POV accusations and such... why is this sort of of being wiped too?

After Dead Kennedys stopped touring in March 1986, East Bay Ray played guitar on a range of projects including an Algerian Raï music album for Cheika Rimitti called Sidi Mansour, which also featured Red Hot Chili Peppers bassist Flea (musician) and Robert Fripp, to garage-pop with Pearl Harbour and exotica lounge music with Frenchy. He composed and recorded a sound track for an early independent film by David Segal and Scott McGhee, who later made the film noir movie The Deep End.

Xinit 21:08, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I just put that particular part back then. Just don't restore Ray's POV edits. --Cjmarsicano 21:11, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Cool; I wasn't sure why it was flipping in and out and it's easier to ask than get in the way. Xinit 21:20, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

More deleted information restored, sources are given. Maybe both sides could please re-read WP:BLP and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV_tutorial? And there does seem to a dispute.

[edit] Dispute

I've tended to be highly skeptical of the revisionism on the part of "Bob" aka Dead Kennedys. But in this case, I do feel that "critics and fans have found these..to be be unremarkable and quite forgettable" is very strong for an encyclopedia article, no matter how accurate it may or may not be. After all, if they were "fans" of Ray--then they by definition would not be dissmissive of the records. I can see no citations or compelling reasons for keeping this sentence in, so I'm going to remove it.

Looked over the change. Looks like a good re-write. Rsm99833 02:27, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nephew of East Bay Ray

That's me, Sebastian Pepperell. As there is currently a NPOV dispute on this page, I can find out the information you want from my uncle himself, including birth information and what he was influenced by. I can also confirm whether or not the user 'deadkennedys' is in fact Ray. Once you acknowledge this, I will phone him asking the necessary questions Seriphyn 10:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Biafra did approve the Tony Hawk video, a valid source is given, deleting that information is done by a person with some personal grudge against Ray. 70.132.10.245 18:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)