Talk:Earth Kingdom

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[edit] Siege of Ba Sing Se

For 600 days, General Iroh attacked Ba Sing Se. He lost his son at some point that is unknown. It is believed that he made his journey into the Spirit World at some point near when he lost his son. The evidence for this link is that Koh the Face Stealer has a face resembling Iroh slightly. The Northern Water Tribe city held the Moon Spirit, which allows for Waterbending. When threatened, the spirits took revenge upon Zhao after Tui returned, fueled by life force it once gave to Princess Yue. Through this, one can conclude that Ba Sing Se may hold the Earthbending spirit, or the spirit of the earth, that was somehow threatened by Iroh's son (or perhaps by Iroh himself). The true reason for his retreat may have had more to do with the spirits then he let on in 'The Spirit World'. Also of note is that this was the first indication he knew of the spirit world, and when we first knew of his siege upon it. The earthbenders have a gift of earth.

This may be possible, but at this point it's speculation, and we should wait until we have conclusive proof before including any of it in the article. Prototime 21:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Personal Opinions

Please refrain from putting personal opinions on the page, it's considered VANDALISM!!

[edit] Locations

Are all these side locations completely necessary on this page? I mean, does the Lee family pig farm really have a place here as some major location? H2P 05:24, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Where is the information to back the Ba Sing Se Monorail up? DoSho 01:55, 20 May 2006
I didn't know what to do about those because I wasn't sure if there was maybe information at the Nick site that I was missing. I think I might just remove it. H2P 07:19, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
And there they go. Though the rest of them look like they need editing as well. H2P 07:31, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

From what I've been seeing, all this future epsiode info goes back to a forum post somewhere. Its interesting stuff, to be sure, but does NOT meet Wikipedia's requierments for a Reliable source, and thus should not be added to articles.--Fyre2387 16:29, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

And as for all the minor locations...since the first two books (seasons) are set almost entirely within the Earth Kingdom, perhaps we should make an article called "Minor Earth Kingdom Locations" and move the minor places there, with only major cites and so forth on the Earth Kingdom article.--Fyre2387 18:22, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with this. I don't think there is a reason to list all of the 20 some episode locations here. With the Earth Kingdom being the main location, to list all of them would make the page hard to read. Many of the "sites" are small little areas that have no real meaning and unless you've watched the episodes 10x a piece, you won't have any idea where that location came from. H2P 20:03, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
That sounds like a good idea to me (though unfortunately, all of the recently-added locations will need to have their descriptions written over from scratch, as they were plagairized from Nick.com). Prototime 05:58, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Better idea, let's just make the location List of Minor Earth Kingdom Locations, and then just delete the locations on the Earth Kingdom page all together. Solves two problems for the time being. H2P 06:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Someone recently added them in again... I somewhat cleaned up their mess, but do we still need to decide on where this info should go? I like the idea of a List of minor Earth Kingdom locations page, H2P. --Tryforceful 22:35, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, like as stated above, most the new locations listed are probably just plagarized from Nick.com. Let me double check. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 05:18, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I went bold and moved all those locations to that page. They need to be rewritten and the page needs a new design. But atleast now they are off this one. I left Ba Sing Se because it will be a main location soon as well as constantly mentioned, although it's paragraph needs change too. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 20:24, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] De-centralized Earth Kingdom?

Concerning the "Government" and "Military" sections, a lot of text indicates that the Earth Kindgom is a decentralized power that seems to operate more as an alliance of independent city-states. While I agree that there are definetley different levels of govenrment in the Earth Kingdom, with cities having a limited degree of autonomy, I really doubt that likening the Earth Kindgom to what sounds like more of a confederation than a full nation is accurate, and in many ways I feel cannot be justified given what we currently know about the Earth Kindgom. What are your thoughts on this? Prototime 05:58, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I think we should see how Ba Sing Se's government works in the next few episodes before we make any speculative changes even if it's obvious the Earth Kingdom isn't really a complete Kingdom. I think the name might have come when Chin conquered most the nation. We'll see what's going on soon that's for sure. H2P 06:02, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I wonder if the kings of major Earth Kingdom cities just act as mayors and still have to report to the Earth king, as the nation does have a central ruler. The cities must have some autonomy for kings, but they may work as a federation under the Earth king. Perhaps each city were independent states in the past and the term "king" was kept. Maybe the cities were given kings so a ruler like Chin the great didn't come to power again, but has a central ruler to maintain order. Please reply. 75.39.157.15 05:23, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Largest Army?

This article states that the Earth kingdom has the largest army, but I'm not so sure. Biggest kingdoms don't always have the largest armies. Factors like conscription, nationalism, militarism of culture and others can allow smaller nations to have big armies. So unless this fact is confirmed by the show it should be removed. And besides has it even been said that the Earth kingdom is largest in population? Largest in size doesn't mean largest population. Jztinfinity 20:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. In the article is says that the Fire Nation's navy is superior to the Earth Kingdom's. If there are more ships, then there are more people to control them. With that plus all those land troops running around, that may mean the Fire Nation is more populus. Plus on the Nick web site they keep saying the Fire Nation can't be defeated since the army/navy is too numerous in numbers.75.39.157.15 05:28, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Better and larger navies do not imply larger armies. Island nations that deal with a lot of water inevitably have better experience of water fighting than land-based ones. England had the greatest navy in the world until the 20th century and its native population was always less than countries like Russia, Spain and France. When Japan invaded Korea in the late 16th century, Japanese armies far outnumbered Korean ones but the Korean navy was far superior by virtue of technology. Hell, if larger/better navies = larger troop strength, then the US has a larger military froce than China!
Just so you know, I said may mean not "does mean" or is. 75.36.7.133 03:21, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Minor Earth Kingdom Locations

On the List of Minor Earth Kingdom Locations, there is a list similar to the one in this page. Shouldn't the list on this page be put onto the LoMEKL page, or even the LoMEKL page merged into this one?Sandmouse 16:19, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

The reason we created the LomEKl page is to clear this page up for the more major locations listed here: Kyoshi Island, which has been seen twice, and its warriors three times, and the major cities of Omashu and Ba Sing Se. The locations at LomEKl are of less importance. --Herald Alberich 17:14, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but wouldn't it be easier to add that page to this one? It's not like it takes up too much room or anything.Sandmouse 02:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
See the Locations discussion above. I wasn't personally involved with the move of the locations to a separate page, but it looks like H2P and Fyre2387 decided that they did indeed take up too much room on this page. I'd talk to them about it, if I were you, but I do want to note that the descriptions at LomEKl are kinda crappy at the moment, and once someone rewrites them to be as complete as they should be, they will take up quite a significant amount of room, more than they really deserve on the main Earth Kingdom page. --Herald Alberich 03:47, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
They were actually quite a bit longer before, but it turned out a good portion of the content was plagiarized from Nickelodeon's site. Its on my list of things to improve, unfortunately, its a pretty big task, and I don't have the time I'd like to. I've been thinking of things to do with it, though, mainly looking into getting descriptions of minor locations on the episode they appeared on. I'll have more detail on the talk page for LomEKl soon.--Fyre2387 (talk • contribs) 05:48, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
I originally created it because someone kept coming in and adding them to this page, most of it being pure plagarism. Those locations listed on that article are very minor locations and have no real merit on the show. Earth Kingdom settings constitute more than 75% of the episodes out there, to put them all on this page would make it much to long. H2P (Yell at me for what I've done) 06:10, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Earth Kingdom Government and Army

The earth kingdom government and army is similar that of the German Empire of the first world war. Germany was a unified kingdom with a central government and emperor, but the proviences and cities still retain their hereditary rulers( who rule like governors and mayors). In Germany, Prussia was the strongest of the princedoms, so it was the leader of the empire. In the Earth Kingdom, Ba Sing Sa is the strongest provence so it is the head of the kingdom. Also, each of the princedoms in the German Empire( and there were four of them) had their own, independant army. Yet at times of war these armies would work together as a single orginization. Each german army had it's own wniforms, but they were similar in shape and style to there sister states. In the Earth Kingdom, this explaines why the army uniforms look alike, yet sorta different. This information should ba added to the article.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.16.21.215 (talk • contribs).

If we added every possible reference to historical events Avatar may contain to the various Avatar articles, the actual information about the show would get buried. As interesting as it is to speculate about Avatar's inspirations and as likely as some of those may be, it's still speculation, and Wikipedia is not the place for it, until and unless the show's creators confirm said inspirations as fact. --Herald Alberich 04:06, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
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