Talk:Early Cyrillic alphabet

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The SHA is missing; what is here called OT should be called omega. OT is the the name for the omega with the tripodial t over it.

Otherwise, excellent image.

19:34, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Sha is the last letter on the 3rd row. 81.153.120.175 09:47, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Table of letters

I've created a table and images to replace Djinn112's excellent image. I figure this one will be easier to edit. I've tried to incorporate the info from the original image, and also from this image I found in the Ukrainian Wikipedia:

Does everything show up correctly? Are all the diacritics there? Do the nasalization symbols in the IPA for the Yuses appear in your browser? (They don't on my Mac with Verdana specified in the stylesheet, but I think they're specified correctly.)

Since old manuscripts didn't differentiate letter case, I haven't included upper-/lower-case letters in the images, but I did include them in the Unicode column. I used lower-case Kirillica Nova font for the images, since it was simple, included most of the characters, and captured the look of manuscripts. I've left out the "er" near the end, which I think is a differently-drawn Hard Sign. Is the last glyph really a separate letter, or just an ornamental Omega? I think some of the transliterations may need a bit of adjustment. Can anyone supply IPA for the letters' names?

—Michael Z. 20:49, 2004 Nov 24 (UTC)

[edit] Table

Table and discussion archived to Talk:Early Cyrillic alphabet/Alphabet table

[edit] Accents and punctuation in Unicode

Here they are. Most don't work in any of my web browsers. Needs some work, and more pictures. Have to take the plunge and move that table over soon.

  • I think we should take the plunge and move the table over stat. I'll leave it for the moment, given there's more of your work there than mine, but I'm happy to do it myself, if you prefer?

Several diacritics, adopted from Polytonic Greek orthography, were also used [these may not appear correctly in all web browsers]:

Punctuation marks:

[edit] Discussion on punctuation and diacritics

  • I think this section's really good, except that it also needs images and a guide to the names (in Russian and Greek), I'd guess, as well as an explanation of how they're used, if that's not obvious.
  • I've removed the links to oxia (or oksia) and varia, as the pages don't exist (Varia is about a character of that name in Xena: Warrior Princess and has a disambig header pointing to grave accent for Polytonic Greek orthography).
  • Working for me (in IE6 on WinXP, see screengrab) are:

— OwenBlacker 14:39, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)

About as good as the results in Safari/Mac:

  • punctuation work properly
  • Trema appears as a box character
  • other diacritics display correctly, but without superimposition

In all my fonts that have them, the pneuma appear as tiny half-Н glyphs. Does Unicode have a way to make non-combining accents combine? —Michael Z. 2005-02-1 16:51 Z

I've put the table (and the punctuation/diacritics) into the article and archived the earlier discussion from here, as you can see.
Just noticed the Unicode combining accents (though they don't combine for me either):
The combining accent should go after the letter. Arial Unicode MS has a bug, it renders at least some of them correctly if the order is reversed. Hey, these work for me with Lucida Grande as the first font choice! (but the hundred thou and million signs don't) —Michael Z. 2005-02-3 02:10 Z
Also there are:
Thought you might be interested ;o)

[edit] Refining the table

I've linked the Unicode letters to the individual letter articles. Dzherv is broken, because it's really a transliterated Glagolitic letter; Tshe and Dje are related glyphs, but not the same letter, methinks. —Michael Z. 2005-02-4 05:38 Z

Also corrected the IPA. Used the ligature (U+02A6) for [ts], and corrected the position of the double combining inverted breve (U+0361) for [ks] and [ps]. Yes, it looks wrong in Arial Unicode MS -- that font renders it incorrectly, too far to the left. But it looks right in every other font that has the character (try Lucida Grande, Code2000, Gentium, or TITUS Cyberbit). —Michael Z. 2005-02-4 06:30 Z

Foolishly, I've just edited the article without reading your comments here. I've linked Dzherv to Che, as I think it makes more sense to link it to an existing article that (at some point) might contain detail about the character's history, rather than to a non-existant article. In retrospect, I should prolly have created a redirect with possibilities; feel free to revert and do so. — OwenBlacker 19:39, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Combining tie characters

194.51.131.78, I reverted your edit to the lines for ksi and psi. As noted above (and in more detail at Talk:International Phonetic Alphabet#Other symbols), the common font Arial Unicode MS renders the double combining diacritics improperly. Paste the text into a text editor and change the font; you'll find that it appears correctly in every other font that supports these characters. —Michael Z. 2005-07-8 18:43 Z

[edit] [y]

Close front rounded vowel is there in the Slavic language?―219.173.119.52 04:58, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Is it Ү ? --Hello World! 15:13, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
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