Talk:Eagle (heraldry)

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[edit] Discuss before deleting or changing other peoples' work

Thank you for your contibution to Eagle Heraldry that I developed from scratch, using other published documentation. I know it is not your intention to appear as a vandal but please discuss your changes that you suggest in the talk section before getting into reversal mathches on others' work. In the subject matter of druid=celtic=kelts=gaul symbology using Eagle, it is well known that Druids /kelts /gauls used it as one of the four elementary signs of zodiac along with the lion, bull and spirit (man) since the time of St Paul in Anatolia and in Inishowen much before than which later got into Celtic christianity and all illumination work since then. And yet, I may be wrong and would like to find out more. Please discuss and I would love to learn further from you. Until this takes place, please do not revert. Thanks.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mon_Vier"

[edit] Francoist?

The eagle was (if I remember right) long used by the kings of Aragon as a symbol of Saint John the Evangelist, so calling the item shown "Francoist" is misleading. (Though it's interesting that the Bourbon inescutcheon is missing.) —Tamfang 23:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

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Randroide 09:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC) Tamfang also wrote (and later erased, see history) this question: What's distinctively "Francoist" about the item shown, other than that it was (I infer) carved during Franco's rule and in the style of the time?

Your vexillological knowledge is much better than mine, Tamfang, and, for reasons I can not understand, you erased a very good question. But I live in Spain, so I am able to give you complementary information.

Yes. I did my homework and you are right: This shield was based in the shield first used by Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella of Castile.

And yes, I knew it is the John the Evangelist eagle. I even added the shield to the John´s category.

The "Francoist" alegation is based in this arguments:

• The eagle was reintroduced in spanish heraldry by Franco himself in february 2th 1938 (Source: Formación del espíritu nacional, Primer curso, Valencia 1955, page 29)

• When you say "águila franquista" in Spain, you are just talking about this eagle [1]. One of the first decissions taken by spanish politicians during the Transición was to remove this eagle from spanish coins, shields, police shoulder patches...only stony eagles remain, and, I am afraid (I do not like to see historic items disappear, and, d**n it!, the eagle is beautiful), not for a long time.

...I can remember a cartoon I saw in a spanish newspaper in 1977 or 1978: A shotgun from the spanish parliament shooting down the Eagle.

Though it's interesting that the Bourbon inescutcheon is missing.

Uh, I missed that detail. In Wikipedia you always learn new things.

Of course it is interesting. Franco was very cautious about his sucession, and he did not decide for the Borbon option until the late 1960´s.

You are a native english speaker, so I suggest you the creation of text in the main article with all this information we are collecting here. The flag could also be included.

Cheers.

Thanks for your clarifying remarks. I've no idea on what grounds you credit me with superior vexillo. knowledge! The item about the cartoon is particularly interesting. —Tamfang 04:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey man!, Do not be so modest! ; ) .Modesty is a vice. You knew about the aragonese origin of the eagle and spotted the highly signifivative Bourbon inescutcheon absence!. I missed this last fact, despite my interest and knowledge in the History of Spain in the XX century.

Yeah but neither of those points is vexillological. I know much about shields, but I don't know flags so well. (I'll stipulate that false modesty is a vice.) —Tamfang 04:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

You wrote a good short text summing up our little conversation. Cheers. Randroide 10:16, 2 December 2006 (UTC)