Talk:Dutch East India Company

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[edit] Correct naming

On Google Vereenigde Oost-Indische Compagnie gets more hits than Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie which is correct? Mintguy

Total revenue and earnings estimates for the company's history?

Despite Google's reliability, I as a Dutch person, was always taught at school that it was the Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie.

At the time there was no official spelling; several forms were used. Of course "Oostindische" conforms to the present prescripts.

MWAK--84.27.81.59 16:20, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Overromanticising

I find the the article is a bit too romantic towards the VOC. There was no "trading" done in Indonesia. When you trade, you take something and give in return. The VOC plunderd Indonesia and enslaved the people. No mention is made of this. Of course, they rarely teach this in Dutch schools.

"No mention is made of this. Of course, they rarely teach this in Dutch schools." oh -please-, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Please don't hate us out of ignorance.
Since when do we care whether someone hates us? That's very unDutch. Yuk. For those who feel a need to hate us out of knowledge: as a historian I can affirm that the whole system of the VOC was based on the structural perpretation of acts that both the valuesystem of today as of those days would describe as "extortion" and "mass murder". However they do teach this at Dutch schools. Quite a lot even. Sanctimoniously lamenting the past, whilst turning a blind eye at the present wrongdoings, I fear :0S

MWAK--84.27.81.59 16:20, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] The novel Dune, inspired by the exploits of the V.O.C.

Thta´s interesting, but in what way are those related? there is nothing about this on neither article. We need more information to confirm this...--Alexandre Van de Sande 22:48, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

A great story drive in Dune is monopolies and resources, and how a faction/company controls it. Also, how these monopolies are actually 'awarded' to a certain faction features in Dune as well. Bertus 11:18, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

"The Chamber of Rotterdam’s raise of capital did not run so smoothly. They brought in f. 173.000 which satisfied by far, the expectations. A considerable part was originating from inhabitants of Dordrecht."

If the expectations were satisfied, how the the raise of capital not run smoothly? Dstarisbeastin 19:20, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Improvement drive

A related topic, spice trade, is currently nominated on WP:IDRIVE. Support or comment on the nomination there if you are interested.--Fenice 09:36, 8 August 2005 (UTC)


[edit] History of Globalization

I would like to extend my appreciation to you for this page. Despite the negative comments by others (cough) the VOC and the Netherlands itself stand as the most prolific mercantile empire before the British. Not to mention the first modern economy. Please feel free to contribute to History of Globalization. Thanks

~Andy

[edit] Dutch Colonial Possessions Picture

Can anybody very whether the Netherlands owned Ireland as a colonial possession. The Image:NetherlandsEmpire2.png says the netherlands did. But I can't remember that from history classes. When William the III of Orange was King of England he sent his army to Ireland, but the image does not include all English colonial possession around 1700.

If no-one reacts I'll upload the image that is on Dutch_colonial_empire Image:NetherlandsEmpire.png. user:C_mon January 18, 2006

[edit] Batavia masscare 1740

From 1720 on the sugar market slowly collapsed. The European markets became satisfied; moreover the competition from Brazil (which was cheaper) became bigger. Dozens of Chinese sugar tradesmen went bankrupt and with them the koelies. This way great unemployment arose and this almost automatically led to revengeful gangs of koelies who, without money or food, saw no other way out. Evidently nothing was done by Batavia to lessen the problems because that way their own corrupt practises would be discovered.

There happened in 9 0ctober 1974, this kill more 5,000- 10,000 victim fell during three day masscare.[1][2]Daimond 13:34, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't get me wrong, I understand something happened in 1740 that maybe worth mentioning. But this needs much better writing before inclusion in the article; and much better references (especially the Website is highly antiDutch). Outright copying from awebsite is copyright violation even if referenced to that webstie so that should be avoided (anyway the text on the website is badly written as well - slow collapse??? - contradictio in terminis). Furhtermore there is definitive antiDutch pov in this section which needs to be neutralised (the weblink has this same pov; while the book referred to is not in English or Dutch so hard for me to judge on quality - so still prefer better refs. Note also that the references tab has not yet been used in this article, soyour refs don't show in the back). I tried to rewrite - How about something like this (but please come up with good references before posting):
From 1720 on the market for sugar from Indonesia declined as the competition from cheap sugar from Brazil increased and European markets became saturated. Dozens of Chinese sugar traders went bankrupt which lead to massive unemployment; which in turn lead to gangs of unemployed coolies. The Dutch government in Batavia did not adequately respond to these problems. In 1740, rumours of deportation of the gangs from the Batavia area lead to widespread rioting. The Dutch military reaction got out of hand and a large number of innocent Chinese were killed. This incident was deemed sufficiently serious for the board of the VOC to start an official investigation into the Government of the Dutch East Indies for the first time in its history. Arnoutf 18:28, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I think that is much better but still needs a little work. ie "got out of hand" is also more is a bit vague and commentary in style than pure statement of events. But, I'd say it's good fo the article, and it can be further "polished" from there. Nice work to both of you--Merbabu 01:23, 11 November 2006 (UTC).
I agree it is still a bit vague. I have no personal knowledge of these events so I try to do the best possible with what I could find, rather being vague than making unfounded claims. I'll put it in in a few days, and see where it goes. Arnoutf 10:31, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
I think this is the strength of Wikipedia. Two people have two different things to add (info & prose), on their own they can't do it, but with collaboration - voila! SOmething good comes out of it. I think the sources should be confirmed first, then we are right to go. --Merbabu 14:22, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Ok I found a (fairly neutral) reference, which I added. I put (a slightly modified version) in the article. Arnoutf 22:49, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I know there two side few from my side and other side so i add book reference, let them know there two version and scale the information about that by themself. Daimond 11:33, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I do not completely understand your point above. Problem with the book is that it is not in English; so English readers cannot use that information to judge the information; so I removed it again. Furhtermore I think there are not necessarily 2 sides: It is clear there was a horrible massacre plain enough from whatever perspective (to my shame I never heard of it, but I am convinced it is not a major issue in the Netherlands to deny it at this moment). Arnoutf 11:42, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

So if I add reference this picture it's okay, soory if my english are bad. and i still few month in here. If you look carefulyy there a information about a canon aimed the big house in a row. that house of chinese kapitan, and looking from this picture you can figure why the river change the name become angke or red river, not only that few name has change according this ancident but the river name are the more clearly change until now, cause still bear that name after the ancident until now.Daimond 13:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC) http://www.nationaalarchief.nl/amh/detail.aspx?page=dafb&lang=en&id=1897#tab0

I gather you are referring to the renaming of the river. I think we should carefully consider whether the renaming of a river after the massacre should be in the VOC article. I fully agree the atrocity/massacre is relevant for VOC history (that is why I put t in) but I do not think the actual renaming of the river is very relevant (that part is probably better for Batavia or Java articles). Arnoutf 14:17, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joint stock

  • Dutch East India Company - founded 1602
  • British East India Company - founded 1600
    • Our article says - "the [British East India] Company was founded as The Company of Merchants of London Trading into the East Indies by a coterie of enterprising and influential businessmen, who obtained the Crown's charter for exclusive permission to trade in the East Indies for a period of fifteen years. The Company had 125 shareholders, and a capital of £72,000."
      • How does that make the Dutch East india Company the first joint stock company? Jooler 13:37, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
I am pretty convinced VOC was first. Perhaps in the British case something to do with the royal charter, or non-tradable stock???? Can someone sort this out in depth not my area of expertise, would n't know where to start looking. The joint stock article lists the VOC as being first and does not mention BEIC Arnoutf 16:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
This and this and this suggest that the British East India Company was funded on a per-voyage basis until 1612, when it started to issue temporary stock, and only issued permanent joint stock from 1657 (presumably copying the VOC). -- ALoan (Talk) 17:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Looking at Multinational corporation the debate is between VOC and Knights Templar for first multinational... So no go for BEIC there either Arnoutf 17:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] British East Indies Companie rather than VOC in Pirates of Caribb

According to me Pirates of the Carribean Dead man's chest refers to the British East Indies company rather than the Dutch one. The inclusion of the Flying Dutchman may have given cause for the confusion I think. Arnoutf 07:57, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

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