Talk:Drill 'n bass

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very good start i think for this page. props to whoever put some info into it. pema

who made up this word? stupid

[edit] Capitalization, history info

User:82.21.63.223 has reverted this page twice to a version which features poor capitalization

Ah, a few capitalisation mistakes. Easily corrected, no?

(see drum and bass or rock and roll for standard genre term capitalization) and which lacks the drill n' bass history and relevant releases that have been compiled over the past few months (chopping this information out of the article without correctly formatting the version that replaces it). If you have a problem with the way the article is worded, please work on only those select aspects of it that seem false to you so others won't be put off by your edits as a whole. Please don't revert the whole thing to a grubby state: that will only prompt me and others to clean it up again. —Tarnas 15:56, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Tarnas has a reputation for making a fuss when his bad edits are deleted, reverted, or modified. See Analord talk page for more on that. Chocolate Wheelchair isn't a Drill and Bass album, and Venetian Snares and Breakcore are already linked in the article, there's really no need to reference it (especially not twice).

Much of the energy from the drill scene made its way into the newly-forming IDM scene that accompanied the rise and fall of drill's popularity.

Give some evidence or example or something, otherwise this is too vague and should be deleted.

Pop music, especially hip hop and R&B, has also borrowed from drill's unique and powerful drum sensibility.

Say who borrowed the "powerful drum sensibility". I bet you can't, because it seems like bollocks, but if you can, great, let's put it into the article. Some artists may use complex drum programming, but are they influenced by drill and bass or did they experiment on their own?

Give me a break. First off, please don't intercut your responses in my talk thread, it's very non-standard, please instead respond to what I say after what I write. As for what you said,

no, your poor capitalization, links, and other formatting mistakes aren't easy to correct

More than 5 minutes work? This article is so short that I don't believe this "aren't easy to correct" claim. I think it's an excuse to revert a bad content edit. Capitalisation is quite trivial compared to the information in the article. I would rather get the information correct now, and the capitalisation right next week, than have a bad article full of irrelevant stuff.

and have been corrected at length in the past already. (2) Venetian Snares was listed as breakcore and Chocolate Wheelchair was described as a breakcore descendent of drill, not as drill; it's useful to mention the album as a way of illustrating the difference between drill and breakcore releases. (3) "energy from the drill scene made its way into the newly-forming IDM scene" should maybe read "The conventions developed in the drill n' bass scene eventually became part of breakcore and, more generally, the set of sounds and production techniques common to IDM recordings." That's what's meant by the original statement: the artists and techniques of drill became breakcore and, more generally, IDM. (4) Influence of drill in pop/rock: Bjork on Homogenic, Radiohead on Kid A and on Amnesiac singles; in hip hop: Prefuse 73. I'll come back when I've got more, but you're definitely right, these references should be included if the comment is going to stay... But you still haven't explained nearly enough of your reversions. Why are you trying to smash up this article so badly? —Tarnas 04:27, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Tarnas has a reputation for making a fuss when his bad edits are deleted, reverted, or modified. See Analord talk page for more on that.

The genre is characterized by rapid, highly distorted snare drum rolls, generally culled from the famous "amen" breakbeat sample being applied to normal drum and bass breakbeats.

The Amen breakbeat being applied to normal drum and bass breakbeats? What? This doesn't make sense. The Amen breakbeat is the breakbeat. What is it being applied to? Weird POV.

The exponential increase incomplexity and attention to measure-by-measure detail found in drill n' bass is significant; it was the first substantial distancing from the dancefloor aesthetic of early drum n' bass.

"Drill and bass is more complex that drum and bass." is the short version. "attention to measure-by-measure detail" is an excellent description of Drill and Bass.

Drill n' bass music can be characterized as "headphone music," less designed for dancing than for careful listening.

Aphex Twin played many live shows, and he often DJ's. Squarepusher often plays live, with samplers, laptops and a bass guitar. Luke Vibert DJ's.

While associated with a "busier" sound than that of mainstream drum n' bass, drill n' bass is generally representative of a minimalist design ethos owing to the genre's spare and often stark arrangements, using a small number of samples in many deployments and iterations.

POV. Drill and Bass is complex and minimal at the same time? No.

I will put a link to the IDM article in this article, so there is now absolutely no need to namecheck Bjork, Radiohead, and other non-Drill and Bass artists. The IDM article talks about the Bjork and Radiohead influences in IDM. If anyone belongs in this drill and bass article, it's Bogdan Raczynski. Can anyone think of someone else who belongs in this article, because he is notable for drill and bass?

The set of sounds and production techniques developed within the drill n' bass genre eventually became part the newly-forming IDM scene that accompanied the rise and fall of drill's popularity. Rock-oriented artists such as Björk, as well as some hip hop producers such as Prefuse 73, have borrowed from drill's unique percussion conventions.

Irrelevant namechecking, because it's not about drill and bass. A link to the IDM article will suffice.

Venetian Snares' The Chocolate Wheelchair Album (2003) is a prime example of the breakcore genre which formed in the wake of drill n' bass.

Irrelevant again, because it's not about drill and bass. There's already a link to the breakcore article and Venetian Snares. We can read a "prime example" of breakcore in those linked articles.

Conumber, Alroy Road Trax EP's by Squarepusher

These are the first two drill and bass EP's by Squarepusher released on Spymania records in 1995. Super ultra mega relevant. Please don't delete this information! Joyrex

Squarepusher's first release was called 'Alroy Road Tracks' .. not 'Trax' .. see [[1]] the scan clearly shows the title with 'Alroy Road Tracks' ... also it was under the name 'Duke of Harringay'

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Hi, I'm going to take a break from this conflict. Take a listen to Bjork's Homogenic while I'm gone and tell me that some of those sounds you hear aren't software synthesized drill and bass beats directly influenced by Aphex Twin, released a year after the Richard D. James Album. Namechecking? No. Cross-referencing relevant artists who use the same drill and bass techniques described here in a different context, yes. —Tarnas 17:08, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

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I'm surprised nobody has linked enduser- his album "run war" is def one of the best "drill and bass" examples I can think of. they call taht breakcore

[edit] the difference between breakcore and drill

Breakcore may use many of the same production techniques, such as the snare rush overflow sounds which gave drill its name, but there is a distinctive difference in the soundset. Breakcore is so named because it relies heavily on the hardcore soundset of extremely over amped and distorted bass hits. You may think that the difference in sounds doesn't make it a different genre, but much of the difference between techno and house is in how warm or mechanical it sounds. If it's built around chopped amens then it's drill. If it incorporates (hard)core, it's breakcore. Another distinguishing feature between the two is that, while drill can be quirky or mischevious, breakcore is often crude, juvenile or downright evil. e.g. there might just be an upper limit for how many times they can use a sample of someone saying "floppy cu*t" over and over again in a drill and bass track, while there seems to be no upper limit in breakcore. This is noteworthy.