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I'm pretty terrified of the idea of unverifiable, unauditable elections so someone more pro-DRE's should go through and NPOV things. I tried my best to present the good side of DRE's Zenyu 16:51, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Security 2 Point of clarification 3 Proposed merge 4 Updates 5 External Links 6 VVPAT 6.1 History 6.2 NIST recommendations to eliminate DRE

[edit] Security

Any discussion of DRE security is incomplete without mentioning the Princeton virus that demonstrated changing vote counts on the version of Diebold DREs used in some 2000-2002 US elections. [1]

Limiting compromise to source code gives the misleading impression that keeping the source code secure (and not public) will keep the DRE secure. The condition ""If the security of the DRE source code software is compromised"" could be more completely rephrased as: ""If the DRE is compromised (such as through hacks inserted in the source code, replacement of any software component, loading a computer virus, remote access via infra-red, bluetouth, wifi, modem, etc. or direct access to the hardware)"". -- Dan Oetting 70.59.60.176 16:10, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Point of clarification

I'm from Sydney, Australia. Australia DOES NOT use any DRE or other voting machines - in fact no where in the whole of Australia that I'm aware of. It could be there electronic tallying occurs to count the ballot papers, however manual recount is possible and occurs in some cases. The voting system is administered by a Federal body, the Australian Electoral Commission at http://www.aec.gov.au/, who ensure the process is accurate, fair and non-partisan. While there are occasional allegations of vote fraud, the system enjoys the respect of a large majority of Australians.

I believe you are mistaken. DRE's are used in Canberra and according to the FAQ at the ACT Electoral Commission, the software is audited and open to the public for examination, but is not required to keep a paper trail, much less a voter verified paper trail. The security is much better than in the US because the software is public, was audited for functionality, and there are mechanisms in place to make sure the software on the machine matches the software that has been audited. However the lack of a audit trail means someone could introduce an exploitable bug that could go undetected, and look innocent once detected. This is especially true because the Linux OS it runs on top of is complex and hence is likely to have some undetected bugs. --Zenyu 14:35, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merge

Voting machine is really talking about DRE voting machines and not other types like lever machines or such. Since the Voting machine page is largely sub-standard, if there are any iotas of goodness, they should be merged here, no? -- Joebeone (Talk) 23:04, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Voting machine is no longer talking about DRE voting machines exclusively. 68.50.103.212 20:43, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Updates

• Vendor's claims of security: updated for accuracy and obvious NPOV
• The DRE voting machines typically take the form of a box or enclosure (rather like an ATM) or a laptop computer.

This is inaccurate and has been removed. If accurate it would still be incorrectly labled under Benefits of computerized voting machines

• Indian voting machines use a two-piece system with a balloting unit presenting the voter with a button (momentary switch) for each choice connected by a cable to an electronic ballot box. [2][3]

Incorrectly labled under Benefits of computerized voting machines moved to Types of DRE voting machines

• DRE voting systems are often favored because they can incorporate assistive technologies for handicapped people, allowing them to vote without involving another person in the process. They can also offer immediate feedback on the validity of a particular ballot so that the voter can have an opportunity to correct problems if they are noticed. This is particularly important, with a good user interface the problem of spoiled ballots could be greatly reduced by using computerized voting machines. If the votes are not counted however, there is little point in determining the intent of the voter.

Rewritten for clarity and accuracy.

• Some precincts require that the entire ballot be presented to the voter simultaneously. This requirement was intended to reduce undervotes, when a voter votes in some races but misses others. DRE systems in these polling places need particularly large screens to accommodate all choices and it was discovered in the 2004 U.S. elections that this increased undervotes because the voter was required to push a small VOTE button on the screen before the votes would be counted, and many voters missed this and their vote was not counted.

This requires a source. Also, this would not be considered an undervote. An undervote would require a partial vote. If this information is accurate, none of the voters affected would have registered as voted at all. Lastly, why would thi be listed as a Benefits?

I could source this (people pushing a "vote" button too early or not at all) if we wanted to include it. The prose in italics would definitely need cleaning up (but it's probably best left off the page).

I believe the statement that "An undervote would require a partial vote." is incorrect. Undervotes are per each race/contest. They can be easily defined as "An undervote is where a voter votes for fewer than the minimum number of allowed choices for a given race or contest on a ballot." Many political and social scientists who study undervoting and overvoting use undervoting in top-ticket races as a proxy for a particular voting technology's rate of error. I think what you're referring to is a blank ballot being cast or the ballot not being cast at all because the voter forgot to push a "vote" button (as is characteristic to the Sequoia AVC Advantage machine and the Danaher ELECTronic 1242 machines). I suppose there could be a benefit argued for for full-face ballot systems although pagination means that it would be very easy to scale up in terms of ballot content.

I'm not arguing that any of this should go back, just being precise. -- Joebeone (Talk) 22:01, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

• It is because of the benefits of DRE's and the HAVA that most DRE's have been installed, not because they make rigging elections easier. Some elections officials have even gone back to paper and pencil when informed of the problems with un-auditable DRE's.

Obviously this would need a source. The POV in this section is just not appropriate. ("not because they make rigging elections easier", come one). DRE's and HAVA section will be added.

Yikes. It looks like I wrote over some of your edits when I was trying to add <ref> tags. Hopefully, I put things back where they should have been. Sorry about that. Is it just me or does there seem to be something wrong with the MediaWiki software today? -- Joebeone (Talk) 22:28, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Finally, I think I've got everything back between the accidental over-writes that happened... Here's a summary [4] of what's changed today. One problem I seem to have been having was that Wikipedia was serving up older versions of the page as the current version. Anyway, let's work from this if there are no issues. I know Rspeer valued some of the external links that were removed, we might consider adding them back. -- Joebeone (Talk) 22:46, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

What’s the general consensus here on what’s appropriate in the external links section?

• A three year old Wired article?
• Rebecca Mercuri’s opinion page (last updated 9/1/05)?
• Links to groups that relate?

Personally I don’t see how these things are relevant. What do you think? Electiontechnology 09:12, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] VVPAT

I moved some information to the Voter Verified Paper Audit Trail page and added a "See" link to the main article. I also expanded it. I also added some more audit related information. I left he Dr. Mercuri info because it was directly related, but the crytography (Chaum, VoteHere...) were moved. I think they server a greater purpose. I really think the Voter Verified Paper Audit Trail is in need of an update. There has been a lot of new information relating to that topic recently. Electiontechnology 21:28, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History

The article gives no indication of when DRE voting machines were first developed, where and when they were first deployed, etc. - Jmabel | Talk 19:52, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NIST recommendations to eliminate DRE

I heard a news story yesterday to the effect that the N.I.S.T. had determined direct recording machines should be de-certified altogether, and that the voter verified paper trail (a roll of paper showing the votes) should also be eliminated in favor of a paper ballot (presumably printed by the machine and checked by the voter) due to numerous strange vote total events in recent elections. Does anyone have the official report for incorporation here? Edison 19:33, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

We're all awaiting the TGDC Plenary Meeting, December 4-5, 2006. Check out the prerelease materials. --Electiontechnology 19:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)