Talk:Dove

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Dove is either included in the 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection or is a candidate for inclusion in the next version (the project page is at WPCD Selection). Please maintain high quality standards, and if possible stick to GFDL and GFDL-compatible images.

I think we need to split this one. The taxobox is getting out of control! What happens when we get to the really big families - parrots or hummingbirds, for example? Unfortunately, there seem to be no sensible sub-groups, or so my quick recourse to HANZAB suggests. Maybe we are stuck with it as is. Or a geographical split? Nope, that could get messy too. Just plug in more text to balance it, I guess. Tannin

I agree, It's also 90 years out-of-date. I moved it here from turtle-dove, a biblical article. I'll sort it when I get time, but I'm going birding soon jimfbleak

I retract out-of-date, but the long list of genera includes a number that don't appear in my 1980 world checklist. I've nothing else to check with on an overall basis. I can't see any sensible way of splitting the topic that would be clear to non-birders, but it will have to be done eventually. The good news is that most of the genera have only a few members, only three or four have more than 5 species. jimfbleak 17:21 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)

I've re-ordered it to the genus order in Lynx HBW, and put in their subfamilies as sections to make future editing easier - MPF 12:32, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I have updated the taxonomical lineup according to newer research (cited). I have also remarked on the problems with said research. In the Columbidae, we have the problem that one can positively say that each and every taxonomic approach published in a major reference work is wrong (mainly because of the non-monophyly of the Columbinae sensu Goodwin), but there has not been a comprehensive treatment that takes this into account yet, so the arrangement as presented while not original research is sort of ground-breaking. Unfortunately, molecular systematicists seem to be (though there are exceptions) bad taxonomists - that is to say, it has been happy splitting galore, but no taxon names have been proposed. I think that the systematics in its present form represents the most current scientific consensus brought together, but I may be wrong.

I'm a little confused. Pigeon redirects to Dove and from what I gather the pigeon is also called the Rock Dove. I think it would be better if a knowledgable individual could replace Pigeon with a short article explaining what species are usually considered pigeons. ThereIsNoSteve 09:00, 21 Sep 2003 (UTC)

The reason that pigeon redirects to Dove is that the terms are effectively interchangeable, and there is no particular biological logic to it. The domesticated form of the wild Rock Dove is called the Feral Pigeon (explained under that article). The closest relatives of the Rock Dove in Europe are the Stock Dove and the Woodpigeon. It makes more sense to keep them all together, and at least that means that material won't be duplicated. Jim

Yep - it is hopeless trying to distinguish pigeons and doves. The origin of the confusion is that pigeon is a French-derived word, and described the meat, while dove is a Germanic word (compare German Taube, which would have been something like Doof before the Hochdeutsch sound shifts got at it, long after Anglo-Saxon had split off - probably still is in Dutch) describing the live bird. And the reason is medieval English history - the meat was eaten by French-speaking Normans and the animals were looked after by Anglo-Saxon-speaking Saxons. It's exactly the same as beef/cow, pork/swine, mutton/sheep, venison/deer, and poultry/hen. So the inhabitants of a dove cot were served up as pigeon. And somewhere round the history of finding and naming new species, some of them got called doves and some got called pigeons, and that's all there is to it. seglea 18:25, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Duif in Dutch! - MPF 23:24, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Further on the pigeon/dove lack of difference, there's a nice little a spoof rhyme in French on the representation of the Holy Spirit by a dove, which translates well into English:

The three basics of Religion,

The Father, the Son, and the Pigeon (Anon., trad.) - MPF 23:24, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

What is the geographic origin of pigeons?

Contents 1 NPOV, blatant anti-dove bias 2 Recipes 3 Headline text 4 homosexual symbol? 5 disease carriers?

[edit] NPOV, blatant anti-dove bias

Methinks a hawk has been editing this page, as this sentence is blatantly POV

 The poorly constructed nests are made of sticks,

I can't think of a good resolution though, so I'll just stick up the {{npov}} tag and wait for consensus. --Cyde Weys _vote^talk 18:33, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Recipes

any good recipes?

[edit] Headline text

Clubs

I was wondering if we could add clubs in here? LdyDragonfly 21:47, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

no, only one species has clubs. jimfbleak 05:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Does this mean we can't list assorted organizations as wellLdyDragonfly 04:21, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] homosexual symbol?

Someone has asserted that in the U.S. "(c)alling someone dove is a derogatory term for "gayness" or being homosexual." With nearly four decades in the U.S., I have never heard this association made. Near as I can tell, some editor dislikes pacifist "doves" and is trying to insinuate that pacifism=homosexuality. I'm removing unless someone can come up with any viable citations. 171.159.64.10 01:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC) p.s. Why nothing on eating pigeons? That's what I came to the page for!

this edit was not originally ccountry-specific, as far as I remember. I may have added US because I've never heard this in Europe. jimfbleak 05:22, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] disease carriers?

The current entry says: The species commonly referred to just as the "pigeon" is the feral Rock Pigeon, a city pest that is also known as "airborne rat" by its bad habit of spreading dirt and disease

Certainly it is called "airborne rat" (and "flying rat") and they do produce "dirt" (pigeon droppings and feathers) - but I don't know that they spread much in the way of disease. I have lived in cities all my life, in close association with pigeons, but I've never come down with any illness I could attribute directly to these birds - nor do I know of anyone who has - nor am I aware of any medical/scientific data on the subject (though there may indeed be some). Seems to me, just from anecdotal evidence alone, that if pigeons are disease spreaders, then it must be at a pretty low rate, or practically negligible.

If they do spread diseases, then we should say which ones. WikiLambo 05:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)James Lambert

Even if any of this is true (I've never heard them called "flying rats"), it should be on the species page, not here - same with pigeon fancier. jimfbleak 05:55, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Fortunately, pigeons do not carry any more diseases than any other wild animal; basically there's very little risk of getting sick from a pigeon. Here's some info: http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/zoonoses/ I'm planning to add it to the page.Devotchka 18:13, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

It would make more sense to add it to the feral pigeon, not to the family of 300 species. jimfbleak 06:58, 12 November 2006 (UTC)