User talk:Dogru144

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[edit] Clarification of Categories vs Main Articles

Dogru, here are some information pages that I implore you to read:

• Wikipedia:Categorisation FAQ - This explains "What are categories?," "What is the purpose of categories?," and "How do I categorize categories which have a main article?"
• Wikipedia:Categorization - guidelines on how categories are used, and when they should be used

I have gone ahead and instated my suggested edits to the Lounge music article. Please read this entire comment and ask questions, either to me or to other Wikipedia editors, before reverting the changes. I appreciate your persistence in this matter, and your willingness to see this through. After all, being bold is a big part of Wikipedia. However, it is critical that you read about categories and understand how they work. What is claimed to be a Wikipedia error is not an error at all - Wikipedia is functioning exactly as it has been designed.

I will begin by saying that I have not "questioned the propriety of including Capitol Records as a category." My comments thus far have been purely technical in nature. If you believe that Capitol Records is a worthwhile category (I am not arguing to the contrary), then feel free to create the category. As it stands right now, such a category (category, not article) does not exist. I realize that you do not believe that this is the case, so I will try to explain in greater detail.

Here is how Wikipedia is set up:

• A main article page and a category page are two independent things.
  • When an article page is created, a category page is not automatically created - it must be created separately.
  • A Capitol Records article page does indeed exist. A Capitol Records category page does not exist.
  • When a page on Wikipedia has "Category:" in front of its name (e.g. Category: Capitol Records) it is unrelated to the article which is not marked in such a way.
  • A Category page is dedicated to collecting a list of articles that fit under that particular category, not an article page which collects information about that particular subject.
• When searching for pages through the "long box on the left side of the screen", Wikipedia searches article pages, NOT category pages. Category pages must either be accessed via the list of categories or by typing them in manually into your web browser's address bar.
• Merely linking to such a category does not cause it to exist.
  • In order for the category to exist you need to click on the red link and then write a summary of the category.
  • You then need to place the category link on other relevant pages.

To make this more clear, search for the article "Pop music." Once you have reached this article, in the address bar of your browser you will see the title ".../wiki/Pop_music." Now, return to the "lounge music" article and click on the "Pop music" category link at the bottom of the page. The address is shown as ".../wiki/Category:Pop_music," an entirely different page. I can understand that this system of filing can be very confusing, especially since categories often (but not always) have the same name as an article. However, article pages and category pages are intentionally kept separate. It is how Wikipedia was designed, and it can be used in no other way.

In the case of "Capitol Records" an article exists, but not a category. In other cases, a category will exist, but not an article. Here is an example:

• Type "German loanwords" into the search box on the left side of the page. It comes up with nothing, because an article by that title does not exist.
• Now, navigate to "Category:German_loanwords" by typing it in to your browser's address bar. To make this easier, here is a link: Category:German loanwords
• This shows how Category pages do not show up in a normal search, but article pages do. It also shows how the existence of one does not necessitate the existence of the other.
• You will also notice how the category of "German loanwords" is merely a list of links to articles that are "German loanwords." If a "German loanwords" article existed, it would contain information about German loanwords. This is the largest difference between category pages and article pages.

Again, I appreciate your persistence, but please try to understand that article pages and category pages exist independently and have very different functions. Don't let this discourage you though - many of Wikipedia's inner-workings can seem confusing, but it's worth the time to learn.

Binary 22:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page moves

When you create a "new" article with the same content (i.e. cut and paste), as you did with Jean Baptiste Loeillet de gant to Jean-Baptiste Loeillet de Ghent, it becomes very confusing, because then there are essentially two articles, which are no longer connected. They might grow in very different ways, which we want to avoid, and they also "break" the history, meaning that other people who have contributed to the article will no longer get credit on the de Ghent page. In the future please use the "move" tab at the top of the page. For more informaion, please see Wikipedia:How to rename (move) a page.

Now, the actual issue, what the name of the pages should be. I'm not sure about that. Both don't seem quite right. The capitalization of "de gant" is clearly wrong. Usually we differentiate between people of the exact same name by using their profession, i.e. "John Smith (cooper)" "John Smith (blacksmith)", but obviously in this case that's not possible. Grove has "Jean Baptiste Loeillet (ii) [‘Loeillet de Gant’]", and both the titles so far are a somewhat random admixture of these. I think I'll move the original article to Jean Baptiste Loeillet of Ghent, and make some redirects, and do the same thing with his cousin's article. Thanks for your work. Mak (talk) 03:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Greetings!

It's not every day we get someone interested in Baroque composers. I noticed your edit to the talk page of 1772 in music, and fixed the problem: Loeillet (of London) is now on the 1680 in music page where he belongs. Hey, happy editing and welcome to Wikipedia! You'll find there's a bunch of decent music editors around, and I see you've already met Makemi. Cheers, Antandrus (talk) 04:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Articles vs Categories

Hi Dogru, this is in response to your followup question posted on the lounge music talk page. Please respond to me here instead of in that article. Before I get too deep into this I really suggest reading the help pages that I linked you to previously. They should answer most of the questions you have.

"Please explain the criteria for classification as a category and not as an article."

• An article has a single purpose, which is to explain in an encyclopedic form what a particular subject is about. An article on "kitsch" will explain what "kitsch" is, when the term was first used, what sort of things are considered kitsch and why, and so on.
• A category collects links to related articles. It contains no information, it is just a list. The category of "kitsch" (if one existed) would be a list of links to such articles as Dogs Playing Poker, and plastic flamingo, but would contain absolutely no information about them. Again, information about those subjects would be put into articles. A category is just a simple way of seeing which articles are related to one another.

So to summarize:

• You should link to an article when you wish a person to read more about a specific subject.
• You should link to a category when you wish a person to see a list of other related subjects.

Since categories are merely lists of links to related articles, it's best to only create categories for which there are a high number of articles to link to. A category like "kitsch" is probably a good candidate since there are potentially dozens, if not hundreds, of subjects that could be classified as "kitsch."

What you need to do to properly create a category:

1. Browse the current categories to make sure that there isn't already a similar category on Wikipedia. If a very similar category exists, go ahead and use that one. If no similar categories exist, continue on.
2. Find articles that relate to your category. For "kitsch," try searching for articles about things that you would consider to be kitsch. If there aren't a high number of articles (a dozen or more, I'd say) then it's best to wait until Wikipedia has enough articles to merit putting them all into a category.
3. Go to the category you want to create by typing, for example, "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Kitsch" then click "Start the Category:Kitsch page."
4. Type in some basic information about what the category is for, and link back to the main Kitsch article so that people can find out more about the subject (because remember, a category does not provide information about the subject - that is the purpose of an article).
5. Return to one of the pages that you found in step 2 and add "Category:Kitsch" to it. Since you have already created the category, the links will show up as blue.
6. Continue adding Category:Kitsch to other relevant pages. If you click on the blue link to Category:Kitsch you will see that it now contains a list of all of the pages that you have added to this category. People can now visit this category page and see what items are considered "kitsch."

"I have sometimes entered categories. Initially they appear as red; however, in a few days, they appear blue."

What will sometimes happen is another editor will see that you entered a non-existent category. They will then properly create the category and begin adding other articles into it. This process isn't automated at all, it is explicitly done by another person. If you only did part of step 5 (outlined above) thus producing a broken red link, another person will sometimes go ahead an finish the rest of the steps.

Also worth noting, sometimes categories will be created and maintained, but then deleted at a later time thus turning all of the links red.

[edit] Automatic signature!

Hello! Did you know you can use four tildes in order to automatically sign a talk page or such? Like this: ~~~~ for me returns Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 21:44, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Green Line (MBTA)

Please don't accuse people of various things when they're only trying to keep discussions in order:

• I didn't delete your comments, I moved them to the bottom of the page where new discussion belongs.
• I have no personal interest in the outcome of your debate and I certainly have no economic "dogs in this hunt".
• I'm not a sock puppet of anyone -- please don't make that accusation lightly.

Please do read WP:CIV, WP:NPA, and WP:AGF.

Atlant 23:15, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Sangro123, what is your basis for blocking me? I am requesting unblock.

The following is the pertinent text material cited by Sangro123 as reason for blocking:

[edit] Green Party candidate on the ballot

Gail Parker is state secretary of the Independent Greens of Virginia. They call themselves Virginia's Independent Party. They are not affiliated with the national Green Party. In 2005 she ran as a candidate for Virginia State delegate for the 44th district, receiving 3.3% of the vote. [1]. On May 23, 2006, the Virginia state board of elections confirmed Parker's place on the ballot, following the petition drive in which her party collected over 20,000 petition signatures for her.

Parker calls for immediate balancing of the federal budget, paying off the federal debt, stopping the waste of taxpayer dollars, installing an auditable accounting system at the Pentagon, and term limits for both the U.S. House and Senate. Her nickname, "Gail for Rail", is from the proposal to build a statewide high-speed Maglev train system. She is pro-life, supports the death penalty, and supports 2nd Amendment rights.

At the July 22nd U.S. Senate debate in Hot Springs, Virginia, Parker spoke with the incumbent Senator briefly both before and after the debate. Allen said he would welcome Parker to future debates. The other challenger also indicated he'd accept Parker into the debates.

In July 28th Rasmussen poll, Parker, who calls herself a common sense conservative, appeared to be within the 15% threshold to get into the U.S. Senate debates. Two live TV debates are scheduled. Sept 17th on Meet the Press. Sept 18th with the Fairfax County Chamber of Commerce moderated by ABC newsman George Stephanopoulos.

Parker met with Chamber of Commerce President William Lecos Thursday July 27th. Lecos invited Parker to present her transportation plan to the Chamber's Political Action Committee. Parker's "More Trains, Less Traffic" plan matches the Chamber's for rail from Washington D.C. thru affluent Tysons Corner to Dulles International Airport.

According to a story in the Hampton Roads Pilot, Parker said she does not expect to win. "I’m being practical about this, and I know the chances of a third party candidate winning are very low," the newsported reported that she said during an interview. "My goal is to create a public forum to discuss the rail issue."[2].

Parker corrected the story at a "Common Sense Virginia Independents for Congress" press conference. She attended along with five pro-rail Independents on the ballot for congress. The associated press headline "Rail, the solution for a troubled world."

[edit] Correction re blocking party

Sango123 is blocking party. Sango123 still has not replied with justification for block.

Your block log doesn't show you ever being blocked, the block message likely said something about autoblocked, you can read details about autoblocks by following that link. If you get hit by such a block we need to know the full details of the block message otherwise we are also none the wiser as to your block and can do nothing about it. --pgk^(talk) 14:44, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blocking party identified

I was indeed blocked. Blocking party was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sango123 Party (an administrator) never responded with explanation for block.

Have you looked at the block log for yourself? Have you read WP:AUTOBLOCK which I pointed you to? You have not been directly blocked, you have been impacted as colateral damage of another block. --pgk^(talk) 15:27, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes I looked at autoblock site you referenced.

I looked at Sango123's page and apparently about a dozen people got autoblocked and User:Sango123's name came up as responsible party

[edit] English Language Learner, etc

I removed this from English language learning and teaching:

{{Limited english proficiency|title=Limited English Proficiency}}

I'm not sure what you were trying to do. Just thought I'd let you know. --Singkong2005 ^talk 13:24, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I was trying to replace Limited english proficiency with Limited English Proficiency. The former is incorrect: English must be capitalized and Proficiency must be capitalized as this conforms with the education and government established capitalization of the phrase.

A wikipedia suggested I insert the phrase you saw posted. Could you please help with eliminating this typo of a redirect? Thank you. Dogru144 18:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know why they gave that advice. I created a redirect (check that link for more info on redirects) at Limited English Proficiency. No need to replace or remove the old one, it will just redirect people even if they get the capitalisation wrong. --Singkong2005 ^talk 03:20, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please don't troll, "relatable" IS a word

Hello.

Re: your angry deletion, "relateable ain't a word!"

"Relatable" is very much a word, and a basic one at that:

• Relatable @ Merriam-Webster
• Relatable @ Dictionary.com
• Relatable @ Answers.com
• About 579,000 for relatable @ Google

Furthermore, "relatable" is weaker than "related". Relatable means "that which can or could be related to", as opposed to "that which is indeed or directely related to". For instance, Hitler isn't related to Napoleon, but Hitler is relatable to Napoleon.

If you have doubt about a word, don't delete it. Consult Google for a quick check, then several of the myriad of online dictionaries available. Please avoid the appearance of impropriety such as starting petty fights over basic English words easy to lookup, or you'll quickly be labeled a WP:TROLL and banned. Thanks.

-- 62.147.38.73 06:33, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

It is difficult to reply to this person. One should not use such a moral ground, when in the first volley of communication a banning threat is issued. Secondly, the user is hiding behind an IP address; no UserName means it is hard to communicate with the person.

I was merely trying to edit for grammar. Dogru144 14:06, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re:Issue of Nacos & articles linked to her

That she has exposed a link between terrorism alerts and Bush's popularity is disturbing to wikipedia editors, including one administrator. Before these individuals removed the links there were references to the Nacos article. Dogru144 23:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah sorry to hear that, I'll look into it... but like it says on the bot's page, no one is required to create incoming links, it's just a suggestion to help the article out. Thanks. --W.marsh 23:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:NicadeKoenigswarter.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:NicadeKoenigswarter.jpg. Wikipedia gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Wikipedia, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

• Wikipedia:Image use policy
• Wikipedia:Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 20:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image caption

Hi -- I just use this caption syntax (between 2 square brackets) and it puts the right things in the right place! --mervyn 09:54, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Image:NicadeKoenigswarter.jpg|thumb|250px|right|Nica de Koenigswarter one winter with Thelonious Monk in Central Park.

[edit] RE: Converting an article title to end in "accent", not "Accent"

Hi, Dogru. I think the only way you can do that is to move the page to "Tidewater accent." Just click "edit," then the move tab. You might want to look at meta:Help:Moving a page if you want more info.

PS- I'm glad you like the article! I'm hoping to expand it, but I don't have any materials readily available (I'm currently living in Paris, and American dialects just aren't their thing here!) Confiteordeo 22:03, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

When I type "Tidewater accent," I get sent to "Tidewater Accent," which makes me think that it redirects the lowercase spelling to the uppercase. I'm not sure exactly how the capitalization system works with names. However, when I change the spelling in the URL (i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidewater_Accent to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidewater_accent,) it tells me that Tidewater_accent doesn't exist. Therefore, I'd say that you're safe in moving the article. Confiteordeo 23:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

Sure, I've actually gone ahead and removed it myself. --W.marsh 02:05, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Amalia

Thank you for starting the article. I have been meaning to write it for quite some time.--Rockero 22:08, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Any time you have an editing window open, there appears on the screen just below it a number of special characters in blue. Some are wiki markup, some are symbols, some are letters with diacritics, and others are letters in non-Roman alphabets. This is the easiest way to use accents. I, however, prefer to use the alt codes. For example, to create á, hold down the alt key and punch in 160 on your keypad. You can also copy and paste characters from your character map (usually under accessories on the start menu if your running Windows). If you need further clarification, don't hesitate to ask.--Rockero 09:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Tasting

Hmmm, perhaps I shouldn't have recommended the "alt codes" method. It is a bit convoluted. But just in case it was an issue, make sure that "Num Lock" is on before trying again. Really, the best way to use special characters is to use the clickable characters in blue that appear beneath the editing window. This may not be available to you if you don't have javascript enabled. Another alternative is to copy and paste (highlight the text you want to copy, hold down "Ctrl" and hit "C" to copy, and then place you cursor where you want to paste the text or character and hold down "Ctrl" again had hit "V". An alternative to using the keyboard is to use the copy and paste commands on the drop-down menu under "Edit" at the top of your browser window.) If the special characters appear below the editing window (which they should), you can copy and paste them from there. I hope this helps.--Rockero 00:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Thanks for stub tip/ Have redirect tip?

No problem for the stub information. If you want to redirect an article, you should blank the text from the article you want to redirect and, at the very top, put in #REDIRECT[[Article to redirect to]]. In this case, it would be #REDIRECT[[African Meeting House]].

I am in the Eastern Time Zone (in Ontario). I have been to Boston briefly but my visit was rushed so I didn't get to see much. I am a fan of the city, especially the accents, the old-city charm, and Extreme. ... discospinster _talk 18:28, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quincy Jones/Linux

Thanks for your message about the Quincy Jones article. If you feel that the picture caption should change back that's fine by me - I just felt that the Paris in France is by far the most well known. Also, the article Paris refers to that city (it isn't a disambiguation page). The other Paris articles are all about places in North America that have been named after the original Paris, and are not nearly so well known. I might have seemed a little rude just changing the article like that, but I felt that the matter was a bit too trivial to waste time posting on the talk page.

About Linux: It's not necessarily true that you'll have trouble connecting to the net, or have trouble getting your peripherals to work. If you connect to the internet using a standard network card or modem, and you have a reasonably modern processor and RAM, things should work fine straight away. If you have an ATI graphics card you may also encounter problems (but don't let this put you off trying!).

If you want to give Linux a try, I recommend that you download a so-called LiveDistro. This is a CD/DVD Image that you burn onto a disk. You put the disk into your computer's drive and it will boot Linux without touching anything on your hard drive (your Windows/Mac files won't be altered).

There are lots of different types of Linux system out there called 'distributions' or 'distro's' for short. I use 'SuSE Linux', which is arguably one of the easiest to get used to. Another one which is regarded as very user friendly is Ubuntu - you should probably try this one first.

Don't be put off if you can't get everything to work with Linux on your first try. If you are having problems, you can bet your life loads of other people have encountered and solved the problem before you. Try searching http://google.com/linux if you get stuck, or ask friends on Wikipedia :)Boabbriggs 18:01, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sep11 template

I'd added a note to the talk page of the Template back when I first noticed your article. There've been no objections, so I've added it to the template for now. If it's removed, try to start a discussion on the talk page. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 15:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alles Nederlands

How is it not a movement or group? It is a real group, as I myself am a member. Whether it is a huge movement or not is debatable, but Alles Nederlands IS a real group and their official website was linked to. Perhaps you could explain your reasoning for removing it a bit better than ´´Google said it wasn´t a group´´ when its official website says otherwise.Gorovich 18:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I´ve lived in Tennessee my entire life. The group´s objectives are stated on the ´´Wie zijn wij?´´ (Who are we) section. The only objective of the group is to make Dutch the official language of America and encourage its use amongst Americans, a group united by a sole purpose without the divisions of left or right. As for contacting the group, I had assumed that there was a contact part of the website, but aparantly there isn´t. I also realize that there aren´t many Dutch speakers in America, but that is part of what the group is about.

Aside from politics, we also help people learn Dutch and hold small events at times to encourage people to learn and speak Dutch, a language which is very similar to English and easy for many to learn. While Alles Nederlands is comical to many, we do have serious motives in both establishing the Dutch language as the official language and helping people learn Dutch. Gorovich 16:50, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Ground Zero dust

I apologize for any misunderstanding regarding this article. It appeared to be an empty article which qualifies for speedy deletion. As speedy deletion candidates do not require dialog, I chose not to notify you. It's a good idea to use "show preview" when creating an article, and only save the page once it's in its finished form. Otherwise those doing new page patrol may tag it if it meets speedy deletion criteria. Thank you. --NMChico24 18:19, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought you had already removed the tags. I have since removed them. What I meant by previewing the article first is to use the "show preview" button right next to the "save page" button. It's fine to post a stub article, but if the article has little or no content, or insufficient context to be expanded upon, it may be tagged for deletion. Previewing allows you to play around with the article and at least make it a legitimate stub before actually posting it for others to see and edit. I hope this helps. --NMChico24 18:30, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

In the case of your redirect, it wasn't initially done correctly, and I couldn't figure out where it was supposed to be pointing. I probably jumped the gun. Using the preview feature avoids that, though, because you can preview it to see if the redirect actually works or if it's blank. Again, I should have allowed more time for the redirect to be corrected. --NMChico24 18:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mexican Folkloric Ballet

I meant to say thank you for the kudos, and forgot about my talk page for a while. Well, thank you for the kudos, and thank you for creating the article itself! Cheers, Fang Aili ^talk 14:32, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barrett better than Fictional actuaries

Actuaries on TV and movies are not important. Chivista 23:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Menteşe

Let's go for Menteşe then ??? The original Turkish spelling. See Aydınoğlu. Regards. Cretanforever 18:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Done! The category applied for all Anatolian Beyliks is Category:Anatolian Turkish Beyliks served by a template on Turkish history (the one you can see on the page Menteşe). Are you from the region of Menteşe by the way? Because I am (from Muğla), that's why I am asking:) Cretanforever 19:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Fethiye article needs a very good hauling. You will be very welcome there. I will get to it too. :) Cretanforever 19:38, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mod Squad

Hi. You want to add the theme's composer? First, edit the page to see the template. It says "infobox television" so then you go to template:infobox television. On there it reads opentheme and endtheme are options. Just follow the formatting. -Ste|vertigo 20:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)