Talk:Diploma mill
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Edward Jenner may be the best-known customer of a diploma mill (W. Hadwin, Gloucester address, 1896; E. D. Hume, Béchamp or Pasteur, 1923). Obviously they're nothing new. 142.177.169.163 19:21, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
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[edit] Family Plots
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that Rick from Family Plots is also another customer of a diploma mill. That one episode where the two people wanted to get married in the chapel of the funeral home he whipped out some sort of theology degree. If I remember right, he apparently bought the degree to make himself an ordained minister.
JesseG 20:37, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Rename article
This came up during the AfD for List of unaccredited institutions of higher learning, but perhaps this article could be moved to Unaccredited institutions of higher learning and replaced with a redirect there since diploma mill is quite POV. Peyna 05:49, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Poor terminology
It is confusing and misleading to conflate the two terms "diploma mill" and "degree mill". "Diploma mill" has long been vernacular for an entity that prints and issues fraudulent degrees or certificates for purposes of criminal activity, fraud, or just entertainment. "Degree mill" is a recent invention for purposes of distinguishing outright diploma mills from other entities ranging from spurious schools requiring little academic work to merely unaccredited ones whose quality may be debatable. This new term tends to be used by persons wishing to avoid libel litigation and also by state legislatures that wish to deny legal status to an institution's degrees for a variety of reasons. As such, "degree mill" is actually more vague and should be used with care. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.214.17.172 (talk • contribs).
[edit] UotC accreditation conversation
I realize this is off-topic, but we have a discussion going on in Talk:University of the Cumberlands regarding school accreditation and accreditation agencies that may be of interest to visitors to this talk page.
Posted to: Talk:Diploma mill and Talk:School accreditation
~Kylu (u|t) 04:01, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia template for diploma mills/unaccredited schools
There is a template started for formatting articles that are diploma mills or just unaccredited schools at Template:Unaccredited. At the start of the article it states the lack of accreditation and later goes into detail. Arbusto 04:32, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
- There is no such thing as a diploma mill slash unaccredited school. Differentiate between the two because a school could be unaccredited, yet not a diploma mill. We will have a very small list that includes both (with references from professional sources to verify, of course). This new template mentions nothing about diploma mills. It is apparently for unaccredited schools. --Whore of Babylon 05:14, 23 April 2006 (UTC)This user now indefinitely blocked as a sockpuppet
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- "{{{1}}} is not accredited by any recognised accreditation body. As such, its degrees may not be acceptable to employers or other institutions, and use of degree titles may be restricted or illegal in some jurisdictions."
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- I don't have the same reading as Gas...uh, I mean, "Whore of Babylon," but then, it won't be the first time. I think we all realize that there are unaccredited institutions and there are diploma mills, and the latter will necessarily be the former. The reverse won't always be true, but it generally is, and so it's worth noting, as appropriate, for each institution for which some advocate of POV-pusher wants to insist be represented by an article at Wikipedia. - WarriorScribe 05:41, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
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- Please see List of diploma mills. Arbusto 06:11, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Experiential Schools
Are there accredited schools, or legitimate yet unaccredited schools, who commonly grant degrees based on experience? My Master's Degree, from an accredited school, had prerequisites to get in, yet a large percentage of the applicants had those prereqs waived on basis of their work history. Likewise my Chiropractor got in to Chriropractor school based on work history and test scores, while he to this day doesn't have a Bachelors or Masters. Not to mention honorary doctorates, given even to Steven Colbert for his work on the Daily Show! At the same time we've all known people who were at the absolute top of an academic field and held no degree. So can we mention in the article, and I don't know enough to do it, schools that are legit yet will actually give a degree based largely if not wholly on properly demonstrated or documented work or life experience? I'm not about to call this article NPOV, but can we have some argument for those who believe the system is only being bureaucratic in that it doesn't recognize real performance? --Mrcolj 23:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Unaccredited degrees: Legal facts
The following are laws about unaccredited degrees.
[edit] Washington State
Washington State: "State senators unanimously amended and approved a bill that would make giving or using a fake or otherwise unaccredited degree a class C felony, a crime of fraud that could warrant five years in prison and a $10,000 fine."[1] Here is the law: HB 2507 - 2005-06 :Prohibiting false or misleading college degrees.[2] (top of page three)
False academic credential means a document that provides evidence or demonstrates completion of an academic or professional course of instruction beyond the secondary level that results in the attainment of an academic certificate, degree, or rank, and that is not issued by a person or entity that: (i) Is an entity accredited by an agency recognized as such by rule of the higher education coordinating board or has the international equivalents of such accreditation; or (ii) is an entity authorized as a degree-granting institution by the higher education coordinating board; or (iii) is an entity exempt from the requirements of authorization as a degree-granting institution by the higher education coordinating board; or (iv) is an entity that has been granted a waiver by the higher education coordinating board from the requirements of authorization by the board. Such documents include, but are not limited to, academic certificates, degrees, coursework, degree credits, transcripts, or certification of completion of a degree.
[edit] Oregon, North Dakota, New Jersey
On unaccredited degrees.
Is Oregon the only state that disallows use of unaccredited degrees? No. It is also illegal in North Dakota, see (www.state.nd.us/cte/post-secondary/programs/priv-post-inst/real-degree.pdf) and New Jersey, see (www.njtrainingsystems.org/) to use unaccredited degrees. It is illegal in Indiana, see (www.in.gov/cope/directory/) to use an unaccredited doctorate. See those states’ laws for details. Many other states are considering similar laws in order to prevent fraud.[3]
[edit] Removed statement
I removed the statement about University of Phoenix and Strayer Univeristy, neither school is a "diploma mill". It is completely contradictory to state that regional accrediting agencies approve "quality" online programs and then flame two schools that are regionally accredited. The information is not factual; it was placed there due to the author's personal bias and lack of research. Phoenix has been accredited since 1978 by the NCA/HLC (same as Arizona State) and Strayer since 1981 by Middle States (same as University of Maryland).
Here are links for reference:
http://www.msche.org/Institutions_Directory.asp (a direct link from the Middle States website showing Strayer's accreditation status and history, just type "Strayer" into the search box)
http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/InstDetail.asp (a listing of Strayer's accreditation status from the Office of Post-Secondary Education website, same as above, type "strayer" into the search box)
http://chea.org/search/actionInst.asp?CheaID=409 (Strayer's Accreditation Status from Council for Higher Education Accreditation's Database)
http://chea.org/search/actionInst.asp?accredID=3;Middle%20States%20Association%20of%20Colleges%20and%20Schools (list of schools accredited by Middle States including Princeton, University of Maryland, and Cornell University)
http://www.ncahlc.org/index.php?option=com_directory&Action=ShowBasic&instid=1949 (a direct links from the NCA-HLC website showing UOP's accreditation status and history)
http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/InstList.asp (a listing of UOP's accreditation by campus from the Office of Post-Secondary Education website)
http://chea.org/search/actionInst.asp?CheaID=1404 (University of Phoenix's accreditation status from the CHEA website)
http://chea.org/search/actionInst.asp?accredID=4;North%20Central%20Association%20of%20Colleges%20and%20Schools (list of schools accredited by the NCA-HLC including Arizona State, University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign, Depaul and Notre Dame)
[edit] "Based in Romania and Israel"
I am changing this passage since to say they were specifically based in these nations gives somewhat of a false impression when it is likely they just had mailboxes there. It would kinda be like stating a multinational corporation was based in the Cayman Islands (or other tiny tax haven) when they probably have no employees and no infrastructure (possibly besides a single mailbox) anywhere near the Island.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 18:46, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Need for additional "definition"
The following text, in various forms and under various headings, has been added (and promptly deleted) several times in the last several days:
- - Definition: Education institution not registered accordingly the law of a nation or country or awarding degrees without a license or permit. Unaccredited education institutions will not be considered diploma mills or illegitimate, if they are registered or have a license or permit.
The user inserting appears to be added like text to related articles. Not only is the addition of a separate "definition" like this not in keeping with general wiki-style, it appears on the face of it to be factually inaccurate (a "licensed" business can still very much be considered a diploma mill, if the "license" in question is not an appropriate academic accreditation). I would urge Consejero to consider his edits more carefully; if not, I hope an admin will do so for him. Robertissimo 02:56, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe that Consejero has violated the 3RR within 24 hour WP rule. I have requested, to no avail, that he discuss these type things on his talk page, in edit notes, and/or on the talk page for the various articles that he has been reverting over the last few days. Bill Huffman 03:06, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Consejero, there is no specific "author" to this article. Stop writing notes to the non-existant author of the article in the article. You have been asked many times. You apparently don't understand WP. You are being destructive rather constructive. The article should look as "professional" as possible at all times. Your notes about what should be in the article should NOT be in the article. I am not afraid of diploma mills. I doubt anyone editing these pages are afraid of diploma mills. Please don't put insulting things in the article like that. Please stop editing WP until you have a better understanding as to what WP is and how it works. Thank you, Bill Huffman 19:13, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
