Talk:Diazepam

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Valium is used as an anxiolytic but Ativan would have to win out in that dept. even with it's short half-life. For a skeletal muscle relaxant vitamin V wins over all benzos hands down, including its little cousin Librium. Did I mention it also helps with insomnia and recurrent periods of agitation? Like the state of mind caused when you're low on Valium....

Ativan (Lorazepam) + anxiety : your statement is true, but Lorazepam might well have a greater addictive potential. The same is true for Alprazolam and Clonazepam. Valium is most effective as muscle-relaxant. Right, Valium is commonly used and effective against insomnia and agitation. But tolerance to sedation might develop, so the effect against insomnia is often limited to weeks.

page needs cleaning up, lots of punctual errors

Contents

[edit] Trivia

I've removed the text

It was also used in the video game Metal Gear Solid. Elvis was a compulsive user of it.

for the following reasons:

  1. A video game cannot "use" a drug. It may appear in that game but we are talking about one of the most prescribed drugs in history. Would you edit the aspirin article and list every game, song or film where someone takes a painkiller? Therefore IMO this is not notable enough to mention.
  2. Elvis may well have used it. The Obituary of Leo Sternbach in The Guardian newspaper mentions that "Elvis Presley had substantial amounts in his system when he was found dead at Graceland". However, millions of Americans used and abused diazepam.

--Colin Harkness 18:27, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Er... So a videogame character can't use a drug, but characters in SONGS can? I'm not a particularly rabid Metal Gear Solid fan (to tell you the truth I don't even like the game at all), but why is it worth mentioning Lou Reed or the Rolling Stones, and not Metal Gear Solid? I mean, rock stars use and abuse about every possible substance in the known universe after all, whereas very few videogame characters rely on real life drugs to improve their skills. --Nico, 22 March 2006

First of all, most people have heard of the Rolling Stones (particularly the song "Mother's Little Helper" - and most people don't even know what the song is about) and/or Lou Reed; therefore that is pertinent information. Diazepam is mentioned in quite a few videogames - too many to list here - and most people (above the age of 20) have not heard of Metal Gear Solid. It is also pretty near impossible to find a legitimate reference for that piece of information (even though I know it to be true, that's obviously not adequate). The simple solution is to have the Metal Gear Solid include a link to the diazepam article. This way people who care about the game can learn of this detail, whereas those interested in the drug won't have to hear about some random videogame. If you feel very strongly about including it, I suppose we could put it to a vote (though it would take several months to get a sufficient number of votes). Fuzzform 20:21, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually no, I don't "feel strongly" about including it. Like I said, I don't even like that game. It's just that the arguments against seemed a little bit weak/biased to me. They had that "it's in a videogame and videogames are just for stupid kids, so we should negate their existence" tone, you know? "Lots of people have heard these songs, therefore it's pertinent"... Well, as you said, we've all heard Walk on the Wild Side thousands of times, I don't really think we need an encyclopaedia to tell us that Lou Reed pronounces the word "Valium" in it. Shouldn't less well-known facts, on the other hand, be included as (remotely) interesting bits of trivia? I mean, this is the trivia section we're talking about after all. It's not like I'm suggesting to begin the whole article with the sentence "Diazepam is a drug used by videogame character Solid Snake to shoot people with a sniper rifle, and was actually invented for the sole purpose of being used in videogames by fictional characters."
Oh and on a side note, I'd be interested to hear about, say, two random games from that incredibly long list of games that mention diazepam, because I've played hundreds of videogames of all kinds and Metal Gear Solid is really the only one where diazepam was mentioned in my experience at least. Are the super mushrooms in Super Mario Bros. actually mushroom-shaped Valiums? --Nico, 24 March 2006
I can think of one title off the top of my head: Bio Menace, from the early 90's. Horrible game. At one point, the character says "Geez, take some Valium or something." Ironically, the main character's name is also Snake. If you don't believe me, download the game. It's freeware now (probably because it was so awful). Anyway, this clearly isn't worth mentioning. I feel like I wasted my time even giving this explanation. Oh well. Fuzzform 00:25, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your considered comments, Nico. Perhaps you would like to get an account, it makes discussing such things easier and you tend to get taken more seriously. My comments earlier on this page and in the HTML-comment on the talk page reflect the exasperation at having to remove unreferenced fancruft by anonymous editors.
I think the argument against mentioning MGS in this medical article is pretty strong but (as you point out) is weakened by the inclusion of other trivia that also has a fairly weak justification for its existance. Wikipedia does not need to include all the facts of the world, only those you would expect to see in a comprehensive encyclopedia. Of the trivia currently listed:
  • The Lou Reed song should go since it does just mention Valium obliquely.
  • In contrast, Mothers Little Helper is a poem about valium (Do a Google for the lyrics) and it is a notable song by a very notable group. It surely deserves a mention in any substantial article on Valium. The authors of the newspaper obituaries to Sternbach also felt it worth mentioning.
  • The Valley Of the Dolls should go unless someone can provide some additional evidence. I think the reference is wrong - see the Wikipedia article. I suspect "dolls" are just the word for any tranquilizer.
  • Karen Ann Quinlan's entry should be trimmed and the word "allegedly" removed unless any reference also uses that word.
  • As I said above, the famous users list is pointless and should go.
  • The potato entry is interesting trivia.
Colin Harkness°Talk 09:42, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure about getting an account... I mean, I'd be the exact same guy that I am right now and I don't know how you would feel about me if I did get an account, but I know I still wouldn't take myself too seriously anyway. Besides, I'm not good enough in English to write good articles, and my area of knowledge is limited to geek stuff and I don't think Wikipedia needs more of that.
But I thought it was interesting to discuss the "Metal Gear" thing, not because it's very interesting in itself, but because as I said, I thought some of the arguments against were weak and biased. But it was just discussion for the sake of discussion actually, I had absolutely no intention to add this information myself to the article anonymously, since I agree that it is not exactly the most interesting information about diazepam (but neither is the part about Lou Reed, yet I do enjoy Lou Reed's song much more than this videogame). Then again, it's just the "trivia" section and that's generally the kind of dispendable information you find in a "trivia" section. Besides, it's not like we're talking about some obscure title that was only released in Lieschtenstein in 1983 and sold 3 copies... Anyway, I realize that this is a serious medical article, and that people who will read it probably don't care much about fictional characters, so I guess you're right. --Nico, 24 March 2006

[edit] Any drug test info. to share.

    The amount of time substances can be detected and sure cures for cleaning out toxins for us folks who don't use but like to stay clean. lol

P.S.

    Feel free to elaborate in any fasion that this page alows.

Well, it takes up to 6 weeks for benzodiazepines to be undetectable in urine tests, according to erowid.org. It likely takes a longer time for the drugs with longer half-lives to be completely "cleaned out" of one's body.

—Rmenee 13:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)--Rmenee 13:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)== Plagiarization ==

Much of the content of this page is copied word for word from www.rxlist.com. I'm starting work (finally) to rehabilitate all the benzodiazepine pages, and this seemed like the best place to start. Fuzzform 20:16, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

OK! I just completely reworked the page. This should be the standard setup for all the other benzodiazepine pages. Fuzzform 21:47, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I think there is a need to differentiate between approved and off-label usage. Seems like pertinent information. Fuzzform 19:35, 11 February 2006 (UTC) Valium is needed to live in this harsh world as a recouvouring herion addict im sure society would rather me steal for a vally script than heaps of $$$ for the H, yeah?Rmenee 13:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)Australia renee look for me at rmenee

[edit] More accurate information

I just did a little more research, and I've concluded that the new information I just added is far more correct than what was there before. As far as I know, there are no "benzodiazepine receptors", rather, the benzos target the a-subtype of GABA receptors. I would like to set it up to show "GABA" with a subtext "A" (this is the way it is done in textbooks and medical literature), but I'm not yet sure how to do this.

Do you mean like this: GABAA --Colin Harkness 19:52, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Yep, just like that. I've already changed it. Fuzzform 20:53, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I added a reference to another book by Barondes. I think the reference section needs cleanup, quite badly. None of the references are written in the standard way; they're all different (and pretty sloppy if you ask me). I'll clean them up eventually, if noone else does. Fuzzform 19:46, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

If there are no, "benzodiazepine receptors," then what on Earth are these?
Synthesis, labeling, and biological evaluation of halogenated 2-quinolinecarboxamides as potential radioligands for the visualization of peripheral benzodiazepine receptors. (Bioorganic & Medicinal Chemistry, 2006)
Quantitative Analyses of 18F-FEDAA1106 Binding to Peripheral Benzodiazepine Receptors in Living Human Brain (Journal of Nuclear Medicine, 2006)
The BZD receptor is a recognition site on the GABAA receptor:
On the Benzodiazepine Binding Pocket in GABAA Receptors (Journal of Biological Chemistry, 2004)
Also, benzos are not GABAA agonists, they are positive allosteric modulators of GABA (PMID 12171574).
Am going to correct that now because I finally have time.--Rmky87 00:27, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
ETA: This not the same binding site as GABA uses.--Rmky87 01:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I came across that same information in "Molecules and Mental Illness". I'd forgotten that I came to this conclusion before. I've made the appropriate changes and referenced them. Fuzzform 21:58, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Questionable info

I've been unable to confirm the information from the infobox "half-life" section: "Biphasic 1-2d/2-5d, active metabolites with long half lives"

All Google searches lead to pages mirroring the content here on Wikipedia. Searches for "1-2d/2-5d" also list Wikipedia mirrors. Also, it seems that the concept of a metabolic half-life would (by it's very nature) imply a biphasic system. I think the suspect information should be confirmed or deleted. Fuzzform 21:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Be ruthless with "info" that you can't find in the references (or your own knowlege, which you should of course try to get references for...). If it is more than a word or two, then remove it and put it in the talk page with a comment like you've done above. Someone else may come along (perhaps the original author) and put it back when they are able to. Better to say nothing than to mislead. --Colin Harkness 21:54, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Something that should perhaps be added is the fact that natural (endogenous?) benzodiazepines have been found in plants, including wheat and potatoes. This may account for the fact that food has sometimes been reported to increase the effects of that class of compounds (although this is my own theory, so far as I know, so I can't include that). In any case, see this link.

Fuzzform 04:59, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

Please do not remove the "citation needed" tags without inserting a reference!

As for the citations of German sources, I'm fairly sure that the only sources which can be used are ones in the same language as the document using the sources. A translation of those sources could be cited, but a source in a different language is essentially useless (as most people cannot cross check it for accuracy). Fuzzform 23:58, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

If the article no longer relies on the German sources, then they can be dropped. I suspect that since you have rewritten it, and don't speak German, that this is the case.

You may be interested in another RxList page: Diastat for the rectal gel.

I don't think there is any need to give multiple citations for every fact (e.g. the indications) - doing so is just overloading the article with superscript numbers. There are just too many online pharmeceutical info sites for you to reference them all. Decide on the main source that you trust and feel is up-to-date (e.g. RxList) and then use that as the sole reference for each fact that it supports. Then only add the others (InChem, Drugs.com, etc) if they are necessary to cover holes in RxList's info.

Colin Harkness°Talk 19:08, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Good idea, I'll begin slimming it down. I've removed the following section, because all search results lead to pages mirrored from Wikipedia. Funny how if you leave something on Wikipedia long enough, it seems to become fact on the rest of the internet, regardless of where the "facts" came from. Nonetheless, it may actually be legit, but until I can actually find a reference for it, it will remain here.

Fuzzform 19:45, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Certain paragraphs (e.g. in "Overdose" section) make use of several combined sources, and it seems easier to read when the superscript numbers come at the end. I'm just going to leave it this way for now, even though one can't tell which statement is attributed to which source.

Also, as for the piece of trivia that so-and-so uses diazepam in Metal Gear Solid: this is true, but I have no idea how to cite it. All the sites with information about it are cheat code sites, and are not appropriate sources. Maybe a game review or something would work. Fuzzform 20:02, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

You are obvious still editing so I'll stay off for now. Here are some comments:
  • The Indications should list indications currently recommended by the major US/UK/Australian/Canadian/etc heath bodies. This section is no place for experimental treatments or for indications that are no longer used (e.g. because better drugs are available or because it has been found to be ineffective, etc). Therefore, drop the German stuff about "Experimental treatment of children". I wound't even bother to try to find another place in the article for it.
  • The Metal Gear Solid reference is fancruft and should be removed. See my comments at the top of this talk page. This and any references to "famous" users should be removed. Everyone who was famous in the 70s used it - we can't list them all! Wikipedia does not need to contain all that is true - only what is interesting.
  • If you use Firefox, you can filter out a lot of Wikipedia Mirrors from your searches. See Mirror Filter.
  • Be ruthless removing unreferenced stuff. Only move it to the talk page if you think it is interesting and potentially salvagable. Otherwise, it can always be retrieved from the history. Use the Edit summary.

Colin Harkness°Talk 20:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Info in need of references

  • "It is the most effective benzodiazepine for treating muscle spasms." - This may well be true, but it needs a reference to be considered a fact. Removed until verified.
  • "Doses for in-patients are usually higher than for out-patients." - This is most definitely true, although it will pretty difficult to reference. Removed until verified.
  • "In the video game Metal Gear Solid you can use Diazepam to steady your aim while using a sniper rifle. It is also used by the enemy sniper (Sniper Wolf)." - This is true, but of questionable importance. Removed.
  • "Experimental treatment of children with anxiety due to separation from their parents (long-term hospitilizations, treatment in rehabiliative institutions far away from home etc.) and their normal social connections (also known under German term 'Trennungsangst')" - Removed.
  • "In the autumn of 1973, a report aired on the television show 60 Minutes, attesting to the drug's addictiveness. This can occur in as little as four weeks. Following a controversial and often polemic discussion, benzodiazepine prescriptions declined by nearly half in the 1980's and 1990's." - Removed, pending verification.

Fuzzform 02:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


For some reason, "RXL.Indications" is appearing under note number 13 as entries duplicated from number 7. Fuzzform 02:36, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

It was "RXL.Indications" vs "RXL.indications". Colin Harkness°Talk 09:29, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I've searched the web quite extensively for information/references that can be used in this article, and I've compiled a list of the best sites. I've also created several lists of information which I plan to use (at some point) to finish referencing the sections that have been overlooked. All of this can be found on this page. Hopefully there is enough material to completely reference the article (it will likely need some expansion too). Fuzzform 20:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Someone added a reference to diazepam's use in hyperbaric procedures. The reference appears to be valid, but the page number is not given and I'm unsure how to properly list both authors (editors, actually) of the book. I've cleaned it up, anyway (it was done incorrectly before). Fuzzform 22:03, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Veteranary Use

This can also be used as an anti-depressant for dogs/cats, for example, some dogs may need it to relax them in situiations of discomfort. One dog I'm aware of takes it to relax it during thunderstorms. This should be written about, although I do not know enough about it to do the writing.

[edit] This article is inscrutable

I am a layman when it comes to medicine, and I am really finding it hard to understand anything about this article. All I wanted to know is what Valium was used for, and why, but the article clouds this information in complex scientific and medical terms that I don't understand. An encyclopedia should be accessible to laymen. Would you all object to dumbing it down...? --Hyphen5 18:53, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Not at all. In fact, I'm glad you made this comment. I'll try to clarify the overall description of the drug in the introduction (at some point when I've more time...) Fuzzform 22:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Could you also please check whether the use of the word "amnestic" is intended. Surely "amnesic" would be more accurate? Revera 13:55, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Veterinary use

I removed the indication for long-term (maintenance) treatment of epilepsy in dogs because the short elimination half-life and development of tolerance makes diazepam poorly suited for daily therapy. This is mentioned in the cited website.

I changed the doses to reflect the difference between intravenous and rectal administration. The parenteral solution is most commonly used for rectal administration, as this has been studied in laboratory dogs and in dogs with epilepsy. There have been no scientific publications regarding the use of suppositories in dogs or for the rectal administration of wetted tablets mentioned in the cited website.

A good reference would be: Podell M: The use of diazepam per rectum at home for the acute management of cluster seizures in dogs. Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine 9:68, 1995

..but I’m still not sure how to add/change references.

Finally, I removed the mention of preanestheic sedation because it seemed redundant as sedation was already mentioned as an indication.

Loupe 21:41, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rolling Stones

First, is it even worth mentioning the Rolling Stones? Consider elaborating/ removing the Rolling Stones section. Are they really singing about diazepam (This essential question is not answered in the article). Could the Stones simply be singing about a yellow pill (not diazepam) that helps a mother get through her day?

I have always thought, that Mother's little helper was amphetamine used in diet pills in 60s. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.230.71.64 (talk) 08:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC).
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