Talk:Diablo (computer game)

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Contents 1 Latin Names? 2 Introducing 3 Mods and Variants 4 Genre 5 PlayStation version 6 Possible copyvio for character class descriptions? 7 Diablo backstory 8 Jarulf's Guide 9 Bugs 10 Release Date? 11 Censorship? 12 Opening Evil Laugh Easter Egg 13 Opening Diablo cutscene 14 The Sin War 15 Comment too specific 16 Some changes I've made 17 Some issues in this article 18 Random item system 19 Maps

[edit] Latin Names?

I seem to recall in the instruction manual for the game the Three Prime Evils had Latin-sounding names. Not sure if they were actually Latin.

Odium, Excidium, and Metus. Metus I'm sure was Diablo's, and I think Odium and Excidium were the names for Mephisto and Baal respectively. Anybody else remember that? Or am I just nuts?

I think it's worth a mention in the article, that is, if I'm not just nuts. TotalTommyTerror 18:29, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Introducing

I'm hoping I'm not upsetting anyone with my edits. I've been playing Diablo for a very long time and see some improvements I can make to the article's factual accuracy. Please reply to me here if you need verification of any fact I include, I will provide reference as needed (though usually all you need is a close reading of Jarulf's Guide). -Kasreyn 17:18, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mods and Variants

I'm thinking on adding sections on Modifications and Variant playing styles.

Modifications are unofficial fan-made (ie., no Blizzard involvement) alternate versions of the games. They often have all new items, altered character classes and monsters, and sometimes even new graphics. In this section I would briefly explain what a mod is and list some of the more popular ones (ie., V&K's Middle Earth Mod, Abysmal, Hellfire: The Dark, and a few others).

Variant playing styles are basically a set of voluntary "rules" for play, the purpose of which is to add challenge to the game and win respect from your peers. The rules are strictly voluntary, so you're on the honor system as to observing them. They typically involve limiting what spells you can use, what items you can equip, or what stats you can add to, but sometimes they go so far as to declare certain monsters off-limits for killing, or specify "quests" (example, "you may not learn Mana Shield until you kill the Butcher bare-handed"). Variant characters are usually indicated with an abbreviation in the title, such as "Pete(IMH)" or "Jarulf(BNM)"

Some sample variants:

Immortal Hero (IMH): If you die, you delete the character. This is the equivalent of Diablo 2's Hardcore mode, though of course it is on the honor system.

Living Off the Land (LOL): You may buy nothing in town, not even pay to identify items or get them repaired by Griswold. Therefore you're totally reliant on what you can find in the dungeon. Very challenging.

Barbarian (BAR): This predates the Barbarian from Hellfire, and is not the same thing. A Barbarian is a Warrior who cannot take points in Magic and is not allowed to use spells. Additionally, he may not use any magical items (blue) except for one magical sword from a limited few types, and only a few unique (gold) items are allowed. Very challenging.

Nakedmage (NM): This is a Sorceror character who is not allowed to equip any items, ever. The lack of bonuses and armor class means the Nakedmage is dead if he ever lets a monster close to combat range. I myself have a level 39 Nakedmage. It's mildly challenging for a skilled player.

Beyond Nakedmage (BNM): The BNM may not wear any gear that isn't cursed (has negative effects), and must wear all the cursed gear he finds. Very challenging variant.

If anyone finds it hard to believe people actually played (and still play) these variants, I can provide links to webforums where such players can be found. It's a strong part of a small but devoted Diablo subculture.

Does anyone object to this information being added to the article? If needed, I can provide links to the pages with the variant style descriptions to avoid the appearance of original research. -Kasreyn 12:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Of course not,just no one plays it anymore.

i played a naked mage myself(its should be noted Variants are mostly based on Emergent Gamestyles,thriving because of options Diablo provide and lack of challenge with usual game).The association with tags and clan-like structure of those variants,which band into parties however makes it different(e.g. like social game clan or ingame social construct(a group which is sort of micro-subculture)) from players who just adopt variant gameplay. Variants are lot less popular on Diablo II,due gameplay mechanics and system based on item builds.Its mainly a Diablo I topic. like starcraft mods,this needs a separate article.(e.g. Diablo_variants) FrozenVoid 08:48, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Genre

I highly dispute the fact that diablo is an Role playing game or even an action rpg. According ot hte action-rpg article, the games have character developmoent, and npc interaction. Diablo has none of hte former and very little of the latter. Diablo is more like a dungeon crawler or some other kidn of hybrid. It is definately not a role playing game. Games like Secret of Mana and crystalis which are action rpgs, have lots of character devlopment, npc interaction, in addition to hte action elements. Diablo doesnt really share anythign with any of those. --Larsinio

I agree that the description is technically wrong. Diablo *is* a roguelike game. The differences noted in the article - that it's isometric viewpoint, etc. - are not important to the definition of a roguelike game. However, I think that it's a distinction that really doesn't matter to many people. "Action adventure" is also a name that might apply to Diablo and Diablo II. They certainly lack any avenues for character development or decision-making. For instance, you can't tell Cain to go and stick one of his quests up his fundament - you have to complete it to get to the next area. The games are linear with a single plot, not multi-pathed like an RPG. Examples of computer RPG's would be the Fallout and Baldur's Gate series of games - both use the top-down isometric viewpoint, but the gameplay is worlds apart from Diablo's, focusing less on items and more on choices. -Kasreyn 05:28, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

That Diablo Subculture needs its own article then.Of course i don't think it more then a Hobby,or a Fandom created just for that game.

Regardless of whether you 'think' Diablo is an action RPG, is it still considered one by it's creator. Akaroo 04:16, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Heh. Good point. Blizzard's opinion surely should count for something?  ;) -Kasreyn 10:05, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

As you can assume one of several "roles" in Diablo to play then it is an RPG by definition. It just isn't anywhere as sophidticated as other RPGs becasue the determination of what is possible is relatively limited. Candy 12:34, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] PlayStation version

I believe that there may only be one PlayStation version.. but eBay gives me some conflicting info. -- Sy / ^(talk) 22:45, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

There was no 2-player version released specifically for Playstation 2. There was a version released in 1998 for Playstation by Blizzard Entertainment in association with Electronic Arts, which featured both 1 and 2-player modes.

--Sminturn 13:48, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible copyvio for character class descriptions?

I haven't played Diablo for at least 4-5 years, but it seems to me that the descriptions of the character classes are lifted straight out of the in-game text/user manual. Could someone please verify this? Also, wouldn't this be a copyright violation if they were lifted from the game manuals? Sheehan (Talk) 15:36, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Diablo backstory

An article can expound on the backstory of the games, manuals, and novels. The official diablo 2 website also gives good information on monster history.

Eh. The article's already pretty long as it is. All we need is a short summary. I don't really see a way to justify increasing the backstory section any more than it already has been. Diablo may be one of my favorite PC games ever, but that doesn't make it particularly notable on wikipedia. Kasreyn 10:09, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jarulf's Guide

[1]

I've added a note to the article on the importance of this resource. Blizzard themselves call it "the definitive guide". Fans such as myself call it simply, "The bible". Its information was originally compiled in the most laborious imaginable way, testing out weapons and swinging at monsters for thousands of times and totalling how many times they hit, things like that. Eventually Jarulf decompiled Diablo and viewed the code, refining the guide to its present form. I've been present in Battle.net channels where Blizzard employees such as, iirc, gfraizer have openly admitted that Jarulf knows more about Diablo than anyone working at Blizzard today does. (Most of the folks who coded Diablo 1 have long since left the company.) Having spoken to him myself on a number of occasions on the old DSF forum, I can attest that he knows his stuff.

I mention all this merely to explain why I've moved his guide up to have pride of place and added a description. Jarulf's Guide is without doubt the best single resource available for a Diablo 1 player. Next best would be asking the folks over at the Lurker Lounge, where Jarulf and a lot of the other co-contributors to the Guide still post. Kasreyn 00:47, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bugs

added notes on the dupe and mana shield bugs. If further explanation is required, I'd be happy to provide it. This is not hearsay; I have personally tested and verified these bugs, which still exist in v1.09 (current version). Kasreyn 00:57, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Release Date?

This doesn't seem to be correct. Maybe December 30 is what's meant? I recall It missed a holiday release. Typdrei 18:03, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Censorship?

I've heard the vaguest rumour concerning censorship, in that the European version was censored in some way (much like Fallout was.) Confirm/deny? 216.68.209.189 19:12, 1 July 2006 (UTC)dethtoll

I'm not sure what there would be to censor. As far as I know there is no profane language in Diablo. Perhaps some of the blood and gore?

Note that in chat channels on Battle.net, profanity spoken by players is masked by the software automatically; this has been in place since day one in every online version. Kasreyn 20:13, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I was under the impression that only green blood is allowed in Germany in video games 58.107.100.147 15:04, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Opening Evil Laugh Easter Egg

When i speed the laugh up it sounds more like the sound of a scavengers death rather than a fallen one! Hypersonic 15:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Opening Diablo cutscene

Shows ravens, deserted houses, corpses hanging from trees, all alternating with a glowing sword, while our hero enters the dungeon. Is there any backstory to this whatsoever, particularly the glowing sword? GoldDragon 22:18, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Good question. Blizzard never states what was the real purpose behind the glowing sword and other scenes in it. Anker99 22:20, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Sin War

What exactly happened to Horazon the Summoner and Bartuc the Warlord of Blood? GoldDragon 22:18, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comment too specific

"Early in its history, Diablo had been influenced by Moria and Angband.[1] Diablo in many ways resembles roguelike games, the main differences being more realistic graphics (utilizing DirectX) and the fact the game is in real time, rather than turn based." Only the Windows version uses Direct X. The Mac version doesn't. It needs clarifying or striking (preferably the latter). Candy 12:36, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some changes I've made

Continuing to try to get the facts in order. A few minor points:

• Uniques are not the same every time. Even in D1, there are quite a few Uniques whose stats vary within a preset range.
• We need a cite for the claim that D1 pioneered the affix system. It sounds right to me, but I'm not 100% certain.
• There seems to be some confusion about quests. These are the Multiplayer quests: Butcher, Leoric, Lazarus, Diablo, and that's it. There are no quest reward items in MP either: the Butcher and Leo drop random items, not the cleaver and the undead crown. By comparison, single player does draw its quests from three "quest pools", and in SP, certain uniques are autodropped as rewards for some quests, such as the Ocular Amulet for completing the Halls of the Blind quest.
• Not all D2 quests are compulsory. One can skip quite a few of them, such as the Countess, Radament (once you already have a Cube), Izual, and a few others. D2 also has just as much randomization of level design as D1, so I don't understand the claim that it's "much more" linear. D2 is not the only game with certain super-unique bosses waiting at predetermined locations (compare the Butcher to Thresh Socket or Rakanishu).
• I've added a note on an important imbalance between Warriors and Sorcerors: Sorcerors can equip +strength gear and wield any sword or armor they want to, but Warriors can never attain enough +magic gear to read the highest spell levels or equip the best staves. This makes the "Turtle Mage" (caster warrior variant) decidedly weaker than the "Battle Mage" (fighter sorceror variant).
• Note on spelling: The game D1 spells it Sorceror. I'm not sure whether we should go with Blizzard's spelling or the more commonly accepted "Sorcerer". My understanding is that both are technically acceptable, though "Sorcerer" is preferred.
• I removed mention of the WoW Prairie Chicken quest. The Cow Level section was getting disproportionately long, and I didn't really see the relevance anyway.

All of these claims are sourced from my own experience and from Jarulf's Guide. Kasreyn 22:07, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if the randomness in Diablo II has been toned down somewhat. In particular, a certain area is always populated with the same monsters. By contrast, in the first Diablo, certain levels may contain 2-3 out of 6 possible monsters.

Is it possible for a warrior to (artificially) reach high levels of mana by wearing lots of high magic-enhancing equipment? GoldDragon 22:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

The most Magic a Warrior can attain in original D1 (not Hellfire) is 225, and he has to suffer some crippling combat disadvantages just to get that high. 225 is enough to max out a few low level spells and get some of the better spells to a decent level, but it's not enough to max out all spells. In D1 (again, not Hellfire), only the Sorceror can max out all his spells. You can download a copy of Jarulf's Guide, which contains absolutely everything you could ever want to know about D1 & Hellfire (excluding strategy). Hope this helps, Kasreyn 16:24, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some issues in this article

Hey, there are couple things I noticed about this page which should probably be addressed in order to improve the Diablo article. The first is the rather large trivia section. Why do we need all this continuation info about Diablo II here? Wouldn't it make more sense to move that stuff to the Diablo II article and use it to refer back to the first game?

It also seems to me there is not enough info on the actual gameplay, while at the same time there are a bit too many sub articles about specifics within the game (i.e. gold, shrines, etc). Perhaps a bit of consolidating is in order. And lastly, is the "Bugs" section really that great of a necessity? Couldn't that be merged with something else, or just out-right removed? -- Grandpafootsoldier 08:46, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

The bugs heavily affect gameplay,becuase every sorcerer(or player that has lot of mana) use the mana shield bug.And the duping bug produced alot more items then players ever found in dungeon.The story of DIablo II and I are connected,i see no point removing it completely(maybe cleaning the references and removing some).

I wasn't saying that the Diablo II stuff should be removed, just moved to the Diablo II page, it just makes sense to me. Also, even if the bugs are as significant as you suggest (I've never really encountered them) they should be added into the criticism section or the multiplayer section (as they were used for online cheating if I remember correctly). I don't really think we need an entire section for two gameplay bugs.

P.S. please sign your name when you leave a comment using the four ~ marker, it helps to keep track of who's saying what. -- Grandpafootsoldier 01:48, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I was the one who added the material on the two critical bugs. I think they're notable for the fact that Blizzard has repeatedly insisted they are either unfixable or not worth the time, whereas they have actually been fixed in third-party mods (proving that they can be fixed). If you feel they need to be trimmed, I wouldn't mind, I just couldn't think of a more concise way to explain the bugs without sacrificing accuracy. It's difficult to explain how to reproduce the dupe bug, but if you want to you can certainly reproduce the M/S bug to see for yourself. I have to dispute with the person you are replying to on one point, though: not all sorcerors abuse the M/S bug. In fact, some of us are very careful to ensure we never activate the bug. It takes all the challenge out of the game.

Which items of trivia, in specific, would you want to remove? I'm all ears. Kasreyn 23:40, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

If they are that important they probably shouldn't be removed then. It's just that this article is rather sub-section heavy, and if that info could be consolidated into another section it probably should be, in my opinion.

Also, as I told the other guy, I don't want to delete the Diablo II related trivia (some of it seems to quite note-worthy), I just thought it would make more sense if it was actually incorporated into the Diablo II article. -- Grandpafootsoldier 22:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Random item system

"Diablo pioneered a system to handle the many combinations of random items imbued with random magical properties (i.e. any item "of the Eagle" will give hitpoints to the player, any "Bronze" item will increase the chances of a hit, etc)"

I disagree with the statement that Blizzard "pioneered" this system; a similar system was used in Might and Magic (at least from MM3 onwards), e.g. "Obsidian Boots of Water Walking". While Diablo did use such a system, it was hardly anything new, with MM3 predating Diablo by about 6 years.

Syke107 22:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maps

Diablo 2 maps are not randomly generated. They are selected from a pool of 4 prefabricated maps and rotated at different angles (north becomes south, etc). I have removed the statement of them being randomly generated. 24.239.129.219 01:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)