User talk:Dewrad
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Matani2005 18:46, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] clann < planta
Hi, thanks for contributing to Proto-Celtic language! The change you made is accurate, but in fact the old statement was accurate too. Old Irish clann really was borrowed from Brythonic plant, which in turn was borrowed from Latin planta. If the Irish were cognate with the Latin, it wouldn't have a c; compare Latin palma and Irish lámh "hand", which are cognate. --Angr/tɔk tə mi 11:56, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- On the contrary, OI clann, according to my copy of MacBain's Etymological Dictionary and referencing the Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru, comes from Proto-Celtic *kwlantā, as does Welsh plant. I fail to see how the sole of the foot would be borrowed into both Brythonic and Goidelic as "family" Dewrad 16:34, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
- My copy of MacBain says in the first sentence of clann that it comes from a PC *kwlanatā but in the last sentence he acknowledges that it is "usually regarded as borrowed from Lat. planta, a sprout". My copy of the Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru says Welsh plant is borrowed from Latin planta. Holger Pedersen (Vergleichende Grammatik der keltischen Sprachen, Göttingen 1909, ISBN 3-525-26119-5, p. 234; see also the abbreviated translation A concise comparative Celtic grammar, ed. Henry Lewis, Göttingen 1974, ISBN 3-525-26102-0, p. 62) and Kim McCone (Towards a relative chronology of ancient and medieval sound change, Maynooth 1996, ISBN 0-901519-40-5, p. 108) also say Irish clann is borrowed from Welsh plant, which is borrowed from Latin planta. So it looks like MacBain's idea of a PC *kwlanatā never caught on among Celticists. Latin planta of course doesn't only mean "sole of the foot" but also "plant" or at least "sprout", and it was that meaning that the Britons took over and changed to mean "offspring". (The same semantic development is seen in German Sprössling.) --Angr/tɔk tə mi 20:35, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- Thank you for that information - while I still have my own personal reservations regarding the etymon, I knew I should have checked in Lewis first! On the other hand, I've always seen the borrowing of words with p- in OI explained using the old Cothrige - Padraig example- which is possibly a little more accesible than clann - plant. Dewrad 18:11, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
- My copy of MacBain says in the first sentence of clann that it comes from a PC *kwlanatā but in the last sentence he acknowledges that it is "usually regarded as borrowed from Lat. planta, a sprout". My copy of the Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru says Welsh plant is borrowed from Latin planta. Holger Pedersen (Vergleichende Grammatik der keltischen Sprachen, Göttingen 1909, ISBN 3-525-26119-5, p. 234; see also the abbreviated translation A concise comparative Celtic grammar, ed. Henry Lewis, Göttingen 1974, ISBN 3-525-26102-0, p. 62) and Kim McCone (Towards a relative chronology of ancient and medieval sound change, Maynooth 1996, ISBN 0-901519-40-5, p. 108) also say Irish clann is borrowed from Welsh plant, which is borrowed from Latin planta. So it looks like MacBain's idea of a PC *kwlanatā never caught on among Celticists. Latin planta of course doesn't only mean "sole of the foot" but also "plant" or at least "sprout", and it was that meaning that the Britons took over and changed to mean "offspring". (The same semantic development is seen in German Sprössling.) --Angr/tɔk tə mi 20:35, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Constantine
If you examine my sources and others carefully you will find anti-intellectualism, which had began a century before, begins to make leaps and bounds before the reign of Theodosius. The uncontrolled fervor of Christianity gives it teeth. It reaches its peak with Theodosius and his death penalty for pagan worship. 16 August 2005 (It didn't work).
[edit] Dydh da! Deth da!
My a wel ty dhe vos Kerneweger! My yw pupprys ow hwilas tus ow kalloes gul kevrohow war an wikipedi Kernewek, a-ban ov vy menyster ena. A vynn'ta junya genen? — My a wel ty dhe vos Kerneweger! My yu pupprys ow whelas tus ow callus gul kevrohow war an wykypedya Kernowek, aban of vy menyster ena. A vyn'ta junya genen? — (And, just to cover all my bases: I see you're a Cornish speaker! I'm always looking for people able to make contributions on the Cornish wiki, since I'm the administrator there. Would you like to join us?) QuartierLatin 1968 20:05, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
- Gwyr ya! Mes nyns esof vy ow callus cowsel Kernowek yn ta- devnydhyer sempel of vy'n wyr! I would indeed! However, my level of experience is definately sempel- I doubt I'd be able to contribute much at all (I can't even respond to your invitation in good Cornish!). Dewrad 21:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
- Na vyth goky! Don't be silly! For a start, I'm not even sure my invitation is in good Cornish. :-) Secondly, you'd be surprised how useful it can be just to have somebody who can use wiki syntax – make redirects, draw tables, make internal links, etc. One active contributor at the moment (who also describes her Cornish as 'basic') focuses largely on translating infoboxes. Besides, we could use somebody who writes UCR; User:Chamdarae and I are mostly Kemmyn, and diversity is good! QuartierLatin 1968 00:14, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
