Talk:Deaths in 2006/archive2

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents 1 rm 'Sir Lee Clay' until reference given 2 Massimo Della Pergola 3 Miss Deaf Texas 4 Ricky Gervais!?! 5 Humphrey the Cat 6 Adam Kirby 7 Pierre Clostermann 8 Mark Southern 9 Heart failure 10 Fair is Fair 11 Caspar Weinberger 12 With sympathy to Oscar Stiegler... 13 This just in... 14 The Black Watch 15 Bob Carlos Clarke 16 Joseph LaContour 17 Current Month 18 Proof 19 Specialised Websites 20 Mike Hallett 21 Tighten up guidelines 22 Harvey Bullock 23 Rauno Lehtinen 24 Michael Kennedy, shoot-out instigator 25 Someone from a university basketball team 26 Justin Hughes 27 Conrad Burns 28 Caleb Cross 29 George Carlin 30 George Crile III 31 Salem Kadih 32 External links 33 Hladnik Boštjan 34 Link page

[edit] rm 'Sir Lee Clay' until reference given

I can not verify this:

• Sir Lee Clay, 42, Biologist and discoverer of the enzyme Deoxyribase, leprosy

Please give reference. Awolf002 19:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Massimo Della Pergola

Can anyone confirm whether the 'Sisal' that this Italian journalist invented is the programming language? i somehow suspect it's not the herb, which is where the redirect page currently points. —This unsigned comment is by W guice (talk • contribs) .

It appears to be a betting company. —Whouk (talk) 10:51, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Miss Deaf Texas

This afternoon, I made note of the death of Tara Rose McAvoy, who was the current Miss Deaf Texas at the time of her death, having been crowned in June of 2005. A user soon reverted it with the comment "rvt. -- despite the somber, yet hilarious irony". First off, I find nothing hilarious about it -- it was tragic. Second, I feel this death is notable. The girl was the current Miss Deaf Texas and supposed to represent her state at the Miss Deaf America paegant this summer. My source was not a local paper, but CNN .. which obviously felt it was notable enough to report. If this girl was the current Miss Texas, as opposed to the current Miss *Deaf* Texas, would this notice have been removed? I don't think so. I'd like it restored. —This unsigned comment was added by 24.215.196.167 (talk • contribs) .

You are free to restore it yourself, within the bounds of WP:3RR. Gamaliel 02:39, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

And I am free to remove it, under the same reasoning. Face it, Results 1 - 10 of about 134,000 for "miss texas. (0.16 seconds) Results 1 - 10 of about 348 for "miss deaf texas. (0.12 seconds). *I* have more google hits than the entire Miss Deaf Texas competition does. Results 1 - 3 of about 5 for "Tara McAvoy" "miss deaf texas". (0.16 seconds) 3 google hits does not a Globally notable case make, most highschool students who get killed rank higher. Sherurcij ^{(talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject)} 02:46, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I really don't care at all here. The only point I'll make is Kyle Lake, who made it onto the 2005 page on the basis of similar (funny to some) tragedy -- pastor electrocuted in a baptismal pool. Xoloz 02:58, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Your point being? Don't you think you are getting a bit anal lately? Williamb 07:34, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Pointing out these things helps keep the page consistent. "Anal lately?" -- Good grief, I am anal! :) I'm the dork who standardizes the periods, for heaven's sake. I do believe the page needs it; as a main page link, it ought to look uniform. I do recognize, however, that it is kinda pathetic. I do it to keep from going nuts here at my desk. Anyway, regarding the late Miss Texas, if I really thought she belonged, I would have joined the revert party. As I said, I don't care. Xoloz 16:14, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I hope this will be the last time I have to replace her entry. She gets over 300 hits on google news, and that's a hell of a lot more than other entires on this list, like comedian Kim Hyung-gon (three hits) and Christian theater director Charles Tanner (zero hits). "Miss Deaf Texas" gets 97,300 hits on google proper, and if you think Wiki mirrors account for that high number, I get 94,300 for "miss deaf texas" -wikipedia. Gamaliel 21:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ricky Gervais!?!

What?? Is this a joke??

Yes, vandalism reverted

[edit] Humphrey the Cat

I have moved Humphrey the Cat from the unsightly, bottom-of-page "date unknown" section, as I think that header is best avoided. In the case of humans, when date of death is unknown, we typically list under date found, with appropriate notation. For the cat, I have taken the liberty of placing him under the Ides of March, with the appropriate remark for clarity. Xoloz 19:00, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adam Kirby

Google hits for "Adam Kirby death" only seem to concern the incident of an 11-year-old who was hit by a model aircraft 7 years ago. the fact that the IP is from a 6th-form college leads me to believe this is either misguided tribute or 'hilarious' 'joke', but not notable either way. W guice 10:55, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pierre Clostermann

Um... I don't think that someone posting incoherently, in broken english somewhere in an internet forum counts as a source, especially when it's not even clear that he's saying that this person has died. If anyone else has a legit source, please include it. Otherwise, I think this should be removed.

Wencer 22:42, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mark Southern

i'm a little suspicious about this, the Middlebury home page has no mention of this professor's death despite its up-to-date news page; the only google hit involving 'death' and 'Mark Southern' tells the story of a man who died two years ago from an unexpected infection; all 'net references to the Prof. Southern in question have him as very much alive. stitch-up? W guice 20:19, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heart failure

Stop putting down heart failure as cause of death, that's what happens to everybody..Williamb 19:08, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

• In some cases, it is the primary cause of death; in others, it is the result of a different primary cause. It belongs in cases where it is the primary cause. "Brain failure", a term less-often encountered, should be treated the same way. Xoloz 19:15, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
• Heart or brain failure is the primary cause of death in everybody. They just write that down when the cause of death wasn't given.. Williamb 19:48, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
• Heart and brain failure are the elements of the clinical definition of Death. If you are suffering from a disease or illness which causes heart and brain failure (aka death), that disease or illness is the primary cause of death. If not, heart failure sounds as good as any term to me, but there may be subtle differences in "heart failure/cardiac arrest/myocardial infarction" that escape me. In any case, we should list whatever is given as the primary cause of death by the relevant medical authorities. Xoloz 23:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
• If everyone died of heart failure, there would be no need to put down any other cause of death. In reality, this would be patently ridiculous, as like Xoloz said, everybody's heart being stopped when they are dead is not the same as everybody dying because their heart stopped. Please acknowledge the difference between cause and effect. W guice 14:19, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair is Fair

Let's list those legally executed in all other countries, if we're going to allow every American criminal executed to be listed. Sherurcij ^{(talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject)} 05:59, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I've never been for listing American executed in the first place. Many people aren't. Williamb 06:38, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I know, I am among them :Þ I very much dislike seeing American executions listed here. Sherurcij ^{(talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject)} 06:52, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Sherurcij, we've had this discussion before, and I've given the counter-arguments before. If there is a verifiable, controversial execution from a country other than the US, it is welcome here. There aren't many verifiable ones, and that is sad. Certainly, if that poor Rahman fellow in Afghanistan is executed, he will be listed. Xoloz 15:06, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, this is in particular a response to the child trafficker... sorry about that. I agree, list it. Xoloz 15:08, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Sad to see that Stanislaw Lem is dead. Great writer.

[edit] Caspar Weinberger

Is this verified? No sign of it on any of the usual news channels. Suspect another hoax along the lines of Madeleine Albright a few months ago.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12050783/ (cut and pasted from deaths) --Syrthiss 17:00, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] With sympathy to Oscar Stiegler...

# Oscar Stiegler, 102, expert on repair, inspection and construction of naval vessels [98]

...I am having a hard time finding why he is notable. I found the obit notice for him, at least. Google search "Oscar Stiegler navy" only returned his cite on the USNA's alumni site. --Syrthiss 19:23, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

• Probably wasn't except for the fact he helped design most of the post WWII American naval fleet. Lot of the people featured in the Washington Post etc. aren't really known much outside the beltway but really influenced the structure quite a bit. Williamb 19:28, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Well, I'd say that is notable. Think you can find a reference for that? --Syrthiss 19:33, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This just in...

General Augusto Pinochet is not dead. No mention of it on any Chilean news source. Apparent hoax. -- Mwalcoff 00:06, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Black Watch

Although I think that this is a great unit with a proud history, it doens't qualify as a person does it... 24.84.50.181 03:43, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

• • And they really aren't dead just part of something else Williamb 03:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bob Carlos Clarke

Suicide? The Telegraph link is broken, while the Times article speaks of "a judgment with which many concurred in the years before his tragic death in an accident, when just approaching the height of his powers." W guice 07:31, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joseph LaContour

• Joseph LaContour, 87, noted inventor and manufacturer of strap on devices, including The Humiliator, The Eye Opener, and The Black Camel, heart failure

--Syrthiss 20:30, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

This is a hoax than an anon has been inserting under different days over the last couple months. Revert on sight. Gamaliel 20:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Current Month

Why is the current month repeated in 2006 Deaths as well as Deaths in Current Month 2006? Surely this requires a duplication of edit. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MrMarmite (talk • contribs).

Actually, it wasn't until you removed the redirect on Deaths in April 2006 that pointed here (which I have since reverted). We edit the current month as Deaths in 2006, and when it is finished it gets moved to the by-month article. --Syrthiss 13:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Okey dokey. Seems odd, but if that's the way it is..sorry for the confussion and thanks for the explanation. --MrMarmite

[edit] Proof

The death of him is listed as a homocide, but according to the news and wikipedia he pulled the gun. Now I don't know if I am getting into semantics and what not, but doesn't that constitute the person that killed him in "self-defense"?? I think gun-shot wounds would be a better listing of death. --Flytothesky

Self-defence would be non-criminal homicide, but still homicide. —Whouk (talk) 18:00, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, homocide is defined as the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another. So his death is a homocide, self-defense or otherwise. My opinion only. :) --Syrthiss 18:03, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

under the law since you bring it up it is allowable to kill someone in self defense so his death is not the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another opionin or not, we go by the laws in such matters

Ok, no problem. I was just wondering, thanks for clarification--Flytothesky

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding of the situation is that a killing in self-defense is indeed a homicide. If the self-defense argument is found to be justified, it's referred to as a "justifiable homicide" but a homicide nonetheless. A killing in self-defense is not, however, "murder". Homicide is not the same thing as murder. I'm not sure which specific person is being referenced, but perhaps qualifying the "homicide" notation with "justifiable" would be in order. Powers 02:25, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

"Homi" > "Homo" = human; "cide" = "caedere" = to kill. Thus regicide is the killing of a king ("regi" > "rex" = king), fratricide is the killing of a sibling ("fratr" > "frater" = brother), megacide ("mega" > "megas" = great) is the killing of a giant, and homicide is at least the killing of a person. --zenohockey 01:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Specialised Websites

I have added a link to a specialised website in the United Kingdom that displays online versions of Remembrance Books that are common in Crematoria across the country. Of particular interest is the Book of Remembrance for Mortlake Crematorium which contains one of the oldest Books of Remembrance in the UK. I trust that this will not be seen as vandalism or unnecessary linking as the site provides a valuable resource for the bereaved and grief stricken in the UK MScheerer 22:48, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mike Hallett

I'm more than a little suspicious about this one - I have searched a few sites trying to corroborate this but have been unsuccessful ; it's from an anon IP that's apparently only ever made one edit - and the snooker World Championship is currently being played. I'm pretty certain that if Hallett had died, a player of his stature would at least get a mention in the sports news. --Zaphod Beeblebrox 08:22, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I've not been able to find anything either. I'd tagged it as needing a citation but since neither of us has found anything I'll remove him from the list. —Whouk (talk) 08:42, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tighten up guidelines

I think the page should be redesigned so it is impossible to add a listing without a citation attached, regardless of whether person already has a Wikipedia entry. It won't stop abuse but will make it less likely. I think some people just want to be the first to post a death notice, especially if they were interested in the deceased person. Samantha of Cardyke 08:59, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't be absurd..Williamb 20:53, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the suggestion that entries should come with citations should be dismissed quite so curtly. Wikipedia needs to be verifiable and misreporting deaths has potential to cause distress, so it's a reasonable, good faith suggestion and deserves to be considered.

While it's not technically possible to force citations, it is possibly to remove entries that lack them (or lack them on the person's article page). I'm not saying it's a suggestion I support, but it's in keeping with the Wikipedia:Five pillars). —Whouk (talk) 21:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

And it's very easy to go behind and readd them. There seem to be certain people who think this is their own personal kingdom and any other way of doing things.... Usable references don't happen a lot of times at the same time as the deaths, and this is CURRENT deaths after all. Waiting for days for the big news organizations makes it old news. Williamb

It's not current deaths. The page is headed "Deaths in 2006" - and the main page link is "Recent deaths". The aim is not to get the jump on news organisations, though it's desirable to make it as up to date and accurate as possible. This page, like every other page on Wikipedia should be verifiable. I don't think a name should be removed only for lack of a source, but without a source it's not only fair, but obligatory that it be questioned, even challenged. The source can be added after if necessary, as happens with most now. I'm wondering though, if the death can't be referenced to a reliable source then how did the person who added it, know about it? And if it's not a "usable" reference then the death may be no more than a rumour, and in line with Wikipedia's policies of verifiability, we should not be adding it. Rossrs 04:15, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think I'd want to go so far as to make it impossible to add a link without a citation (certainly its not possible unless we locked the page and only let admins post "approved" listings from the talk page...which is definitely against the spirit of wikipedia). I am not sure that the current system isn't working, in that if I notice something uncited I try to check the related article or add {{fact}}. If something goes more than a day, bring it to Talk and we can discuss it. --Syrthiss 21:06, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Have only just come across this page and, before seeing this discussion, was impressed by the presence of "citation needed" or actual citations with every entry. This is absolutely right: it makes the reader more than usually aware of the possibility of hoaxes, which seem to be particularly common on this page. Nice one, folks. JackyR 23:25, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm more of a tightass, I think people who want to list "Polish scholar" should have to first create at least an article stub on him :P Sherurcij ^{(talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject)} 04:28, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Whereas I think this page gives a valuable list of people who should have articles. An obit is the time a notable but recently inactive person appears in the news , which reminds us of their achievements. Creating a stub is probably good practice, but we wouldn't want newbies to not be able to add to the list because they won't/can't create an article. JackyR 15:45, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Harvey Bullock

The wikilink goes to the article on the DC Comics character. I'm not sure how the correct placeholder should be phrased. Korvac 14:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

At the moment I set it to link to Harvey Bullock (writer) and began an article on him. --Syrthiss 02:44, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rauno Lehtinen

The source (which appears to be a blog entry, but the only one found searching Google News) to which I linked has a publication date of May 3. It mentions his death as occurring "last week," making May 1 unlikely as his date of death. The linked source further links to an article from Finnish broadcaster YLE, but since that article is in Finnish, it wouldn't be appropriate to link from an English Wikipedia article, although a more definitive day of death might be gleaned from someone who could read Finnish. It also appears he has an IMDB entry, but the date of death has not been listed there yet. Spicy 14:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

It's appropriate to link to a Finnish article to verify a death (tho not for it to be the prinicipal reference for an article). Otherwise, en.wikipedia can only record deaths in the English-speaking world, fr.wiki in the French-speaking world, etc. Wikipedia is supposed to be a source of information for readers, not just a mirror of what their own newspapers tell them. JackyR 19:55, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Michael Kennedy, shoot-out instigator

...defies all known laws of notability. W guice 13:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Someone from a university basketball team

is this a piss-take? W guice 20:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

let me expand and clarify. how in merry hell is playing a sport for a university team enough to consititute notability? W guice 12:21, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

College sports are quite popular in the United States and the media coverage of them makes stuff like this notable enough for inclusion. Gamaliel 12:31, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

ahhh! righto. i stand corrected then, cheers W guice 14:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Justin Hughes

While my condolences go out to his friends and family, especially brother Larry, he just isn't notable enough to be here. He's already mentioned in Larry Hughes' article, thus he does not require any article of his own, much less a listing on this page. It's tragic, and I feel for those who knew him, but he just doesn't belong here. Cyrenaic

I think you'll find he does have an article of his own, though... W guice 11:06, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I've changed it to a redirect. —Whouk (talk) 11:30, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Conrad Burns

Anyone got a source for this reported death? User:125.186.140.196 seems to have done a lot of work on this entry over the last couple of months. But a quick googlenews isn't bringing any reports of his demise up. Steve-Ho 18:55, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

• It appears to be a hoax. User:125.186.140.196 made the edit to the Deaths section] while in the process of making several different vandal edits] to the Burns article (since reverted). I'll delete the deaths reference. Normally I don't get involved in these things but this one is obvious. Arenacale 19:04, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Caleb Cross

down on 17th May as "Caleb Cross, 27, Renowned gay rights activist, consumption". I've done a couple of quick searches and not much came up on this name. A gay porn actor does come up. Anyone got a source for this. I've added a ^{[citation needed]} against it, but is he notable enough if this is not a hoax? Steve-Ho 10:45, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like friends of gays nonsense. "Consumption" makes it unlikely too. I'm removing it as potential attack vandalism. If a source turns up it can go back... —Whouk (talk) 12:14, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] George Carlin

anyone got a source for this "death" - a quick google on googlenews isn't showing any death reports? Steve-Ho 11:36, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

no, nothing from anywhere as of now. i think we should call bullshit on this W guice 12:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, if you do a google news search you will find articles from 2 weeks ago saying how George did a great show in whatever town he played in. Someone with advanced lung cancer that is also a stand up comedian would not have been able to perform that many shows. I've removed this. Rumor only.

[edit] George Crile III

He is listed under May 14, 2006 AND May 15, 2006. Is this an error, or did he die twice?

• He has been removed from May 14 as the sources indicating he died on the Monday which was the 15th. Capitalistroadster 10:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Salem Kadih

I don't see this person as noteworthy enough- should it be removed Steve-Ho 07:04, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links

How about removing the links hawking products or calling up pagead2.googlesyndication.com (that is, adsense) from the EL section? --Nnp 21:27, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hladnik Boštjan

Okay, I've been messing around this page for a bit, re-wording and fixing some stuff. I checked the article for this guy, and, even though I don't know Slovenian, something didn't seem right about the page. It seemed too "lively." I used a Slovenian translator on the web, and it didn't seem to say anythign about death, so I'm a bit suspicious. Can anyone verify? -- Cyrenaic

[edit] Link page

Someone seems to have screwed up the links template so that it doesn't work. Capitalistroadster 07:25, 4 June 2006 (UTC)