Talk:DC Comics martial artists
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[edit] Batman
Why should Batman be listed as a retconned-in martial artist? Sure, his training from Richard Dragon and such might be retconned in, but he's been depicted as an expert in Japanese martial arts since the Golden Age.--Halloween jack 21:16, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Do you have a citation? I only have what I've got in collections, but for the first few years of his publishing history at least it seems to be all headlocks and uppercuts. I haven't found any references to him knowing any japanese martial arts from '39 through the '40s. I haven't checked the 50s, but that's still a fairly long amount of time to go without having anything like that mentioned.D1Puck1T 23:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not home at the moment, so I can't list issue #s, but in my copy of the Batman Archives, Batman is shown teaching Robin throws and holds to which he refers as judo or jujitsu moves in early issues of Batman and Detective Comics.--Halloween jack 04:15, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
- If you could try to find where you saw that, it would be great. I think it's fair to say that if neither Kane nor Finger was working on the story, then it wasn't the "original intent". But even then, the date and writer/artist of one of the earliest stories where his knowledge of Japanese martial artis is seen would be an excellent thing to have in the article!D1Puck1T 05:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
- I found it. In Detective Comics #36, he executes what's described as "an old jiu-jitsu trick" on a thug. (The "trick" he uses is Tomoe Nage, one of the 40 classical judo throws. The throw is also used in jiu-jitsu, but is more popular in judo, and Americans back then had little concept of the differences between judo and jiu-jitsu.) In Detective Comics #38, Robin's first appearance, Batman is shown teaching Robin boxing and Jiu-Jitsu. As near as I can tell, this makes them DC's first characters to practice Asian martial arts, although I could be wrong. It was fairly common in the early days of comics for the writer to include an offhand bit of narration saying that the badly-drawn throw or hold the hero was executing was a judo or jiujitsu move, just to give the character a touch of the exotic. After all, Asian martial arts were poorly understood by the general public at that time (and still are, in many ways). If no one objects or wants to do more research, I'll edit the article to mention the Batman/Robin info. --Halloween jack 06:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
- To play it safe, say DC's first superhero characters to practice martial arts. I do think the emphasis on asian martial arts has shifted with Batman and Black Canary from those early tales, but the way the article currently explains it is indeed wrong. Excellent catch, I can't believe I flipped right past that when I was looking through the early volumes. I might even scan one of those panels for a page image.D1Puck1T 03:31, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
- I found it. In Detective Comics #36, he executes what's described as "an old jiu-jitsu trick" on a thug. (The "trick" he uses is Tomoe Nage, one of the 40 classical judo throws. The throw is also used in jiu-jitsu, but is more popular in judo, and Americans back then had little concept of the differences between judo and jiu-jitsu.) In Detective Comics #38, Robin's first appearance, Batman is shown teaching Robin boxing and Jiu-Jitsu. As near as I can tell, this makes them DC's first characters to practice Asian martial arts, although I could be wrong. It was fairly common in the early days of comics for the writer to include an offhand bit of narration saying that the badly-drawn throw or hold the hero was executing was a judo or jiujitsu move, just to give the character a touch of the exotic. After all, Asian martial arts were poorly understood by the general public at that time (and still are, in many ways). If no one objects or wants to do more research, I'll edit the article to mention the Batman/Robin info. --Halloween jack 06:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Picture
Are there any covers or splash pages featuring several of DC's best or most prominent martial arts characters gathered together, that would make for a good picture to go at the top of the article? I think that would make a better "headline" image, and the picture of Batman and Robin could go in the Golden Age section, where it would be more relevant and a good illustration of how martial arts were being handled in the comics at that time.--Halloween jack 05:31, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
