Talk:David Cross

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Contents 1 Replace picture? 2 criticism part 3 Improvisation of lines? (Trivia) 4 Nice to know who Cross is now 5 Link Mania! 6 Jewishness 7 wasn't he on the colbert report 8 My America 9 negative quotes

[edit] Replace picture?

since the picture is an AD still thats a flashback within the show, it doesnt acurately reflect how tobias looks for most of the show. change?

Sure, if you like. --Jacj 17:24, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Isn't that a picture of Tobias after he got his hairplugs in Season 3?24.57.193.217 16:40, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

No, it's a flashback of a time when Maeby came to work with him. --TheMidnighters 16:43, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to include a new picture, but remember that the article isn't about Tobias; it's about David Cross. Thus, it doesn't really matter whether it's a flashback. Superm401 - Talk 01:34, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Furthermore, the picture is of little use in this article, since photos of people should be for identification purposes. Cross is heavily disguised in this image, and as such it's not really appropriate as the main picture in the article. -- MisterHand 01:43, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I've changed the image to another (less disguised) screenshot for now. --TheMidnighters 13:26, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] criticism part

The part about recieving criticism from handicap advocacy groups needs some sources, becuse I've never heard about this, ever.

I've asked the user who contributed the information to provide a source. --TheMidnighters 00:14, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Improvisation of lines? (Trivia)

Can anyone verify that he improvised many of his lines? The "Trivia" section of the AD page says that contrary to popular belief, almost none of the dialog was improvised.

I'll remove the line until there's a source. --TheMidnighters 06:45, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nice to know who Cross is now

It's a shame Cross is only really known by most people for his Criticism of Larry the Cable Guy. Maybe some day he'll do something worthy of note in his own right. We can only hope and wait.

Talk pages are intended for comments concerning the improvement of articles, not general opinions. Wikipedia is not a discussion forum. --TM 20:54, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I'd say he was pretty well known before that. This only served to make him more popular.

Maybe not, but he sounds a little like a hypocrite, I'm not saying that word should be used, but mentioning that he sounds contradicting. Only problem with what I wrote is it seems POV, and that is a no-no. SRodgers--65.24.77.104 20:52, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Link Mania!

I think there may be too many links to other articles--it's a bit overwhelming to try to read when every other word is blue and underlined. Anyone agree? Mrestko 00:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I think all the links are appropriate. It's not like the same article is mentioned several times and linked in all of them. He's done a lot of stuff and those things should be linked. --waffle iron ^talk 00:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Certainly many of the links are appropriate, but I think that quite a few are unnecessary. For example: Bob Odenkirk is linked to twice; Stephen Colbert probably doesn't need to be linked to since there is also a link to his show, The Colbert Report; I don't think there need to be links to DVD, MTV2, Xbox (twice), PC, and PS2--it's unlikely that these links are necessary because most people reading this article are probably already aware of these devices. There are several other links I feel are unnecessary, but I don't want this post to become tedious. All in all, I think that loosing a few links would help the readability of the article without detracting from the content. Mrestko 00:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Well those seem reasonable to remove. I think we could also lose the one sentance paragraph that lists movies he's been in. There is already a list below. --waffle iron ^talk 00:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I just removed that paragraph I mentioned. Feel free to make your changes to further discussion. --waffle iron ^talk 00:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I made some changes. The article still looks a little cluttered though--some of the paragraphs should probably be rewritten since a lot of content is already in the lists at the bottom of the article. But that's it for right now... Mrestko 01:06, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't really care about the color of words. Links just make research easier. --Macarion 04:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the "former Jews" category, because of the problems outlined at its deletion vote. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 17:58, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Category not yet deleted, added back --Macarion 18:48, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Even if the category remains, you would need to cite a reliable source that identifies David Cross as a "former Jew", and saying a Wikipedian heard him call himself that at a show is not a reliable source. Meanwhile you have grossly violated 3rr with (so far) 6 reverts. And are you the orignal editor who placed the category here under ip 75.3.49.50 ? --MPerel ^{( talk | contrib)} 19:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Ironic given that Cross does a great routine on how Judaism is the only religion where you cannot get out of it, no matter what you believe. Laszlo Panaflex 01:32, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I've re-removed the category, pending citation. Tomer^talk 19:29, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jewishness

This guy is Jewish. When I tried say he was Jewish, people removed it. Some of the categories this article has are Jewish categories, so why can't we say he's a Jew? I'm just looking out for my people.Jimjones5 02:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Cross says that Judaism is the only religion where you cannot get out of it, no matter what you believe. You may insist he is Jewish, but he has made his Atheism clear. Laszlo Panaflex 01:21, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree with Laszlo Panaflex--if you've ever listened to David Cross, he talks at length about his religious status and general disbelief in religion. As an encyclopedic entry, it would be incorrect to label Cross as Jewish when he as clearly renounced any belief in that religion. Mrestko 02:04, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

P.S.: I just discovered this link on the bottom of the main article page: Cross On Atheism. It clearly documents Cross's Atheism and should end this discussion. Mrestko 02:09, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Judaism, like another Wikipedia article says, is also an ethnic group and culture. He is Jewish because he's ethnically Jewish. Plenty of Jews are agnostics and atheists. Somatomy 03:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

So his own opinion does not matter? He does not self-identify as Jewish, so is it hoisted upon anyway? It would be correct to say he is of Jewish ancestry, as he does in a quote on the page, but to say in the first line of the article that he is Jewish misrepresents him and his views. Laszlo Panaflex 05:40, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. I can't find anything where he considers himself Jewish and it does seem that he doesn't. It should be said somewhere in the article that he's of Jewish descent though, I think (although the subcategories he's in indicate it). Somatomy 05:57, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

His ancestry is not relevant. It doesn't seem to influence him as a person other than as a joke in some of his bits. This article is about him and his career as an actor and comedian, not the geological and religious background of his ancestors. Mrestko 07:12, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

He's not a rock. Arniep 07:21, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I know this is obscure, but I think Mrestko is talking about the rabbi in the middle ages who created a golem in Jewish folklore. If this guy was David Cross's ancestor, that means that he may be a descendant of the person who built the first robot. The story isn't true though like the rest of the religion, so I don't know why Mrestko even brought that up. Somatomy 07:33, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, that was a typo-I meant geographic background (referring to the geographic origin of this ancestors). Mrestko 15:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

His ancestry is a fact about him. If he were black, it would be mentioned somewhere. I see a lot of articles that mention Irish and Italian ancestry. Articles generally do mention ethnic background. Somatomy 21:35, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I can't believe people still don't get this. He's not a fucking Jew. He's white. I don't know why you people still argue this to the death. --Macarion 22:05, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Just what the hell is that supposed to mean? Most Jews are white, the Ashkenazi are anyway.L0b0t 02:03, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

So he's just generic white with no ethnic background beyond that. You're right, I didn't get it. Thanks for explaining it. Somatomy 04:11, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Somatomy. All that's needed is a sentence summarizing all this discussion, that although he is of Jewish descent he is an avowed atheist, a fact complicated by Jewish tradition stating that if your mother's Jewish then you're Jewish. Maybe including his own summary of this situation from Shut Up You Fucking Baby would be best. Thoughts? --TM 13:17, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I added a quote summarizing his opnion of the relationship between his atheism and his Jewish ancestry taking lines from track 2 of Shut up etc., "Lunch with Frankenstein" between about 6:00 and 8:30. --TM 13:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I approve of this. Somatomy 20:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I think that quote needs to come from a source. I only found one page that had a quote like that and it conflicted with yours. The page isn't up though (njatheist.org), I was only able to access the cache. The "can't" was in there but some other stuff was different. Somatomy 07:20, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

You can't just make up some random rule about your religion

"Oh, if you talk to me, you're a Jew"

No, it's a religion like all the others, people get to decide what they are, not some arbitrary tradition --Macarion 03:49, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not an "arbitrary tradition",to be a Jew one has to meet three criteria: circumcision, a micvah (ritual bath), and a Bar or Bat Mitzvah. If you have done these three things, then congratulations you are a Jew and all the nay saying in the world won't change that fact. The thing about ones mother being Jewish only refers to the Israeli "Right of Return" where anyone with a Jewish mother is considered Jewish enough to emigrate to Israel.L0b0t 13:21, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Jewish law says that if your mother is Jewish, you are Jewish, regardless of any other factor. It has nothing to do with emigration to Israel. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 13:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, thank you --Macarion 18:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know why Lobot was saying that. I wasn't bar mitzvahed, I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheism, and I'm against organized religion, but I'm still Jewish. Somatomy 18:45, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

You still don't seem to understand that it's not just a religion, it's also an ethnic group. For example, if someone's background is Russian Jewish, he doesn't lose the "Jewish" part of his ancestry if he becomes an atheist. He's not suddenly just Russian or white. Jews are a specific kind of white person ethnically and Russian Jews are a specific kind of Russian ethnically. Somatomy 05:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Not all jews are white, many Mizrahi Jews for example are darker skinned, and I believe there are Jews from Ethiopia who most people would describe as black. Arniep 19:17, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

That depends on what you consider white. Yes, the Ethiopian jews aren't white. But middle eastern people are considered white by many including myself. They're very similar racially to Southern Italians and Greeks. I was talking about the Jewish ethnic group though. The Jewish ethnic group is white. Somatomy 19:28, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe genetic tests have shown that the Ethiopian Jews also originate in the male line to the Israel/Palestine area. Arniep 20:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean "in the male line?" Somatomy 21:14, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The male Y-Chromosome is genetically very similar to other Jews, Palestinians and Kurds. Arniep 21:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

If a black woman becomes a Jew and has a son, is that son automatically a Jew, even though he doesn't share the same ethnicity as the real "ethnic Jews"? --Macarion 21:37, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

You keep missing the point, Macarion. You seem incapable of understanding what I've been trying to say. I'm not talking about the "mother being jewish" rule at all. Somatomy 23:31, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, one and all, for preparing the above comments, which I will be lifting whole for a new routine I call, "People on the internet are more fucking stupid than anyone ever imagined." You will not be credited or listed in the thank you section of the CD, but you are free to go around saying, "hey, I'm one of the stupid fucks he's talking about!" David Cross 01:01, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I wonder if it's really him!!!

I really doubt it's David Cross, but I hope it is and I hope he's not joking because being in his next CD would be cool. I'm a big fan of his. I'll wish I hadn't been using my fake Wikipedia name. It's not David Cross though, I'm guessing. Besides its being unlikely in general, that profile was just created today. Somatomy 01:33, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not all that unlikely, a few people have edited/commented on their own article, some even try to make it less unflattering (either Milli or Vanilli did it I think). And having a discussion with points as brilliant as "I can't believe people still don't get this. He's not a fucking Jew. He's white." being associated with you would probably be enough to warrant a comment. --TM 03:07, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I still think it's much more likely that someone else was watching this argument, created the username last night, and posted it as a joke. I don't think it was Macarion though because it was too well-written. Whoever did it is a fairly convincing David Cross. Somatomy 07:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] wasn't he on the colbert report

I swear he was.

The article discusses his role on Colbert in the Biography section, and lists it among his Television credits. aren't you a moron. I swear you are.

[edit] My America

"David is also a columnist for Vice Magazine, and his latest CD, Shut Up You Fucking Baby has been nominated for a Grammy award." - Music for America interviews David Cross. Here are 1, 2, 3 sample columns I found. Could be more, I didn't search very hard. Also, these are from a few years ago, so perhaps it is more accurate to say he used to write a column for Vice. And it should be attached to an existing paragraph rather than on its own. Laszlo Panaflex 01:32, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] negative quotes

I think some of the "quotes" used do not accurately portray David Cross' comedy or (perceived) public persona. More specifically, there are no less than two quotes that are abbreviated from their original form that appear in the Quotes section that make him sound like a bitter, mindless athiest with no reasoning behind his opinions. The quotes should either be replaced with the whole quotes or removed completely.