Talk:Darfur
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[edit] Population estimates?
Anybody got some? I hear about the numbers of people killed in the conflict and don't know how to relate it to the totals in the region. Even rough estimates would be good if hard numbers are not available.
[edit] external links
200,000 people have been killed since the three years of the conflict's beginning
Mo D.
[edit] data removed 1
This was removed, why?
According to Ben Cohen, of truemajority.org (http://www.truemajority.org/darfur_webcast.cfm):
" Over the last several months, a government-backed Arab militia in Sudan called the Janjuweed has been attacking black Africans. The Janjuweed tactics are crude but effective. They enter a village and use terror to force everyone to leave their homes and crops. Entire populations have fled to distant camps in the middle of desolate areas. These desert camps are now surrounded and controlled by the Janjuweed, and anyone who tries to leave is raped or killed. Unarmed international aid workers are turned away. A total of 370,000 human beings are already dead or in the late stages of dying from starvation in these extermination camps. The death toll could reach 1 million within the next few months.
Time is our worst enemy. Every day 1,000 people are dying in these camps. Currently, starvation is taking the weakest—70% of the dead are children five and under. As time goes on, the death toll will rise more quickly. The United States needs to ensure that food aid is brought to the people of Darfur with protection from an international military force. Congress has already allocated tens of millions of dollars for this mission and seems willing to allocate millions more if needed. The problem is that the Bush administration is unwilling to take the decisive action needed to make sure the food aid is safely delivered to those who need it most. Instead, they are calling on the corrupt Sudanese government to disarm their allies, the Janjuweed, and allow the food aid in. To pressure the Sudanese government, the Bush administration is talking about using sanctions, a process that will take months—long enough to kill everyone currently starving in the camps. That is why it is crucial that Congress speaks out now." Ben Cohen (truemajority.org and Ben and Jerry's ice cream)
Because:
- Ben Cohen is not a primary source. He's never even been to Darfur. Human Right Watch have, and are.
- It's inappropriately POV (please read Wikipedia:Tutorial (Keep in mind)), especially the bits about Bush, which are in any case irrelevant to an international audience.
- Its statistics - in particular the 370,000 claim - disagree with everything else I've been able to find; does he know better than the aid organizations who are actually in Darfur?
And finally, I do not appreciate being accused of "censoring any substance regarding Janjuweed attacks on Blacks in the Sudan" after having written most of Darfur conflict myself. - Mustafaa 05:22, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)
[edit] they are trying to silence us
Fatima Aisha Mohammad (Darfur refuge, former schoolteacher, age 46),
from a Washington Post article:
"Very frankly, they selected us ladies and had what they wanted with us, like you would a wife," said Mohammad, 46, who has five children. "I am humiliated. Always they said, 'You are nothing. You are abid (a racial epithet). You are too black.' It was disgusting."
During a recent visit, government minders warned people at the school to stop talking about the rapes or face beatings or death. Minders also were seen handing out bribes to keep women from speaking to foreign visitors. But those at the school spoke anyway. A group of people handed a journalist two letters in Arabic that listed 40 names of rape victims, and wanted the list to be sent to Sen. Sam Brownback (news, bio, voting record) of Kansas and Rep. Frank R. Wolf of Virginia, Republicans who were touring the region and pressing the government to disarm the Janjaweed.
"I was sad. I am now very angry. Now they are trying to silence us. And they can't," Mohammad said. "What will people think of all of us out here? That we did this to ourselves? People will know the truth about what is happening in Darfur."
[edit] "Black" and "African"
I would like to raise two points:
1) What is meant by the word "African" applied to the non-Arabic speaking tribes? Does it refer to the color of their skin, to their language, or what? The word originally meant people of north Africa, who were not black.
2) I have heard that the so-called "Arabs" of Darfur are actually "black" as well. So shouldn't the word "black" be deleted from the part about the conflict?
From what I have read, the people on the two sides are more or less the same color and have the same religion.
EricK 11:28, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
A lot of it has to do with the terms people use to refer to each other. Many of the nomadic tribes call the Fur "blacks" (we won't go into the more derogatory terms) and themselves "Arabs." Although a few of the "Arabs" are slightly lighter-skinned, there is probably very little true Arab lineage involved (I think it's more a cultural thing). On the other hand, not all Arabs are janjaweed and some janjaweed are not Arab. I find it easier to just talk about men on camels and horses with big guns. Bold text
Good jumping off point for more info on Darfur. I thouht that the media's good/bad guy sloganeering was probably bull. I liked one comment " why are us Jews getting involved in this - black Muslim against black Muslim"( a paraphrase) - is wiki Jewish?( I don't have one of those huge dictionaries
[edit] Population
The article states that Darfur has a population of 74 million people. This seems to be either a typographical error, an inflated estimate, or an intentional supplication of misinformation. Whatever the case, 74 million is nearly TWICE the estimated population of Sudan as a whole. I will edit this as soon as I can find a reliable population estimate for the region.
[edit] 7.4 million
After some research, it appears 74 million was a typographical error, and the previous author meant to type 7.4 million. This error has been corrected.
[edit] Notes
Why isn't there a complete reference for Prunier? Should be Prunier: Darfur. The Ambiguous Genocide.
[edit] External and Wiki Links
I seperated the external and wiki links. I also added an external link to the Save Durfur campaign. I also deleted the racist comment here on the talk page that's apparently been on here since April, and nothing was done about it. JanderVK 10:24, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] History Section - confusing sentence
The following is a sentence fragment and therefore causes confusion: The influence of an ideology of Arab supremacy propagated by Libyan president Muammar al-Gaddafi that began to be acted upon by Darfuris, including those identified as "Arab" and "African"
[edit] new links
The best website is www.sauverledarfour.org
- It may be, but its in french
- --Chrisdab 14:37, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
You can find a lot of articles in English from USA and United Kingdom
[edit] Link Error: dar
"a businessman who was competing with the dar over access to slaves and ivory in Bahr el Ghazal to the south of Darfur." The Word 'dar' is linked to an article, which is only a reference page that gives no clue what is meant.
[edit] Link
Hi maybe you can put links from NGO like www.savedarfur.org and www.sauverledarfour.org
Mike
Its already listed under Bibliography of the Darfur conflict, main article: Darfur conflict. This article is about the region Darfur not the current conflict. --Chrisdab 16:31, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] oil in darfur?
Based on reading a debate on whether darfur contains oil, ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6058920.stm ), I think it would be good if someone who knows something about the possibility to add it to the article somewhere, seeing as it has significant influenece on the political discussion surrounding the darfur conflict.
[edit] Muammar Gaddafi
- He called for Pan-Arabism, and Arab unity, not Arab supremacy. He was a socialist, revolutionary, those ideas of so called "Arab Supremacy" conflict with his notions of socialism etc. See Muammar Gaddafi article for details.
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- The Gaddafi section you talk of has no interest, because it is unsourced; instead, this article is confirmed by Prunier's book (inline citation in Darfur conflict) and de Waal's review on the TLS [1].--Aldux 12:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
-Excuse me? It most certainly is not unsourced, since when did the US Department of State's Background Notes, (Nov 2005) on Libyan history not qualify as an accurate source? And that is only one of several sources listed there.
In addition as i said in the Darfur conflict article id like to read the WHOLE paragraph or page that this source of yours claims. Please post it here to verify it, or provide a link. But from what I know, Gaddafi is seen across Africa as a man of revolution, socialist change etc. Gmflash
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- Look better; none of the inline citations present in the article covers the specific section (Gaddafi#Islamic Socialism and Pan-Arabism), the other are "external links", not "references", and as WP:EL tells, external links is the material that isn't used for referencing. Anyways, BT has already awnsered you at Talk:Darfur conflict.--Aldux 00:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] This article needs vandalism block
Time to limit the editing of this page due to vandalism. Someone needs to do this now. PLEASE ADD TO THIS ARTICLE: limit editing due to vandalism --Scottymoze 03:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
