Talk:Cyril Burt
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[edit] comments
I am surprised by this article. After reading Stephen Jay Gould's essays on Burt, I was totally convinced that Cyril Burt did forged not only the data for the alleged twin study but also invented... the twins. The number of twins separated at their birth and then found many years later was incredible, for instance. Also, I didn't read _The mismeasure of man_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man) but it should be linked at this place, since it provides strong critics of some theories of Cyril Burt (and many others, in fact) about heredity of intelligence.
Christian Rinderknecht, christian_rinderknecht@yahoo.fr, Wed Dec 8 00:24:43 KST 2004
I'd like to see source references on some of this stuff. I can't find much about Cyril Burt being cleared of all charges. The report linked to does not conclude this. It might be worth pointing out that Cyril Burt was the first president of Mensa.
update: This article reeks of whitewash from his disciples to me. Why doesn't anyone mention that he was a member of the British eugenics society, for instance? I'd say it's pretty relevant considering his field of research. And it should perhaps be noted that Leslie Hearnshaw, Burt's biographer, wasn't just anyone. He was a close friend of Burt. Nonetheless he concluded that Burt had committed serious fraud.Vintermann 10:53, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)
- I wonder about Burt being cleared also. There are other things that people have raised suspicions about that are not mentioned in the article. For example, Gillie noted that the women who supposedly collected the data for Burt, Margaret Howard and J. Conway, either do not exist or were not in contact with Burt during that time period. Also, Hearnshaw mentions all kinds of strange cases of fraud engaged in by Burt. For example, he wrote to his own journal under aliases, explaining how he was the pioneer of factor analysis in psychology, not Spearman. --Chan-Ho Suh 21:56, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)
[edit] "It is now generally accepted that at least a majority of this research was fraudulent."
It is important to emphasize that Burt's findings, fabricated or not,have been corroborated by numerous independent studies dealing with the heritability of intelligence.
- Is this really true? I was under the impression there was some debate about this. I thought Burt's study was special because of the number of twins it used. I don't believe there's been a study since that used so many. --Chan-Ho Suh 21:56, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)
It is not generally accepted that the research ewas fraudulent. There are two issues at work here, that the files may have been claimed by the WWII bombings that destropyed data for a number of Universities. The loss of the data when Liam Hudson instructed his secretary to destroy his files after his death make this disputable. User BenGibson
[edit] Mismeasure of Man
The bibliography of this article somehow developed a discussion of the merits of Gould's book, which is not directly relevent to this article. I've removed it, and I'd suggest that if anyone feels that it added something important, it should be in a criticism section, or in the article on Gould's book, not in the bibliography of the Burt article. -Willmcw 19:53, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[edit] London School
I see that Burt has been categorized with the as-yet uncreated category of London School. I'd like to suggest that that would not be a good category name. First off, for many people the first association would be the well-known London School of Economics. The other issue is that if it is a category of persons then it should be labelled as such. So a better, though lengthy, category name would be London School of Differential Psychology members.
[edit] Misspelled Name
His name is actually spelled "Burtt." However, since everyone insists on spelling it with only one "t," it may not matter anymore. This is a symptom of our declining literacy. 152.163.101.10 16:29, 18 September 2005 (UTC)Joe Pedant
- Can you provide a source shoowing that it is the corect spelling? Thanks, -Willmcw 03:50, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
Look at any Mensa Bulletin published circa 1967 — 1970. You will find the name always spelled "Burtt." But to try to prove this is like swimming Niagara Falls upstream.Lestrade 18:41, 13 September 2006 (UTC)Lestrade
[edit] Birthplace
Cyril Burt's birthplace was actually Stratford-Upon-Avon, Warwickshire (birthplace of another famous fraudster according to some!). Quite a biggie really, I'm not sure how the person who wrote this managed to get it quite wrong or why it hasn't been picked up on before! Check Encyclopaedia Britannica for a reference.
[edit] Social Utility
Society has an interest in proving Burtt wrong. That interest may influence the judgment of his work. If intelligence is largely inherited, then there may be no incentive for self-improvement. People may just accept their limitations with resignation and apathy.Lestrade 18:46, 13 September 2006 (UTC)Lestrade
[edit] Racist Test
If IQ tests are racist, why do many Middle Eastern (India, Israel), many Far Eastern, and certain Caucasians score high? What is the common racial property that these groups share?Lestrade 02:17, 11 October 2006 (UTC)Lestrade
