Talk:Custodians

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[edit] Not sure whether this page is redundant

The custodians, first of all, is a generic term with specific Baha'i application. this is ripe for a disambiguation page. Secondly, this information seems inaccurate, as the term "Custodians" was not, if I am not mistaken, referred to in the will and testament. The functions of the nine hands in the holy land are, of course, in the Will. but not the term. Again, if I am not mistaken, the term is given them by the Universal House of Justice, and may (I have to look it up) refer to all 27 hands living at the time, not merely the 9. I don't recall the 9 in Haifa having a specific title.

Also, the document quoted and the minimal history around it are all quoted and/or referred to in other articles such as Hands of the Cause and Bahá'í divisions. There just isn't enough here to warrant an article, I think, and more importantly I don't think there ever will be, since it's conceivable contents are well represented in other places.

Thoughts? -- Christian Edward Gruber 16:56, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

My understanding of the term "Custodians" is that it was the nine Hands in the Holy Land during the time from the passing of the Guardian to the election of the Universal House of Justice. In "Ministry of Custodians" in one of the first messages they state

Mansion of Bahá'u'lláh Bahji 'Akká, Israel November 25, 1957

The following principles shall apply to the relations between the Hands of the Cause of God and the nine Custodians of the Bahá'í World Faith and to the activities of the said Custodians:

1. The Hands of the Cause shall have their meetings at least once a year, and the time and place of their meetings shall be determined by the Custodians, who shall be responsible for convocation of such meetings.

2. The Hands of the Cause shall have the full authority to introduce such changes in the composition of the Custodians, to substitute Custodians by others from their own number, to resolve upon such alterations in functions, rights and powers of the Custodians and to give such directions to the Custodians as the Hands of the Cause in their free discretion may decide.

3. The quorum of the meetings of the Hands of the Cause shall be a simple majority of their number, and any resolution adopted by majority of the Hands attending such meetings shall be deemed to have been validly passed by the Hands of the Cause.

4. The quorum of the meetings of the Custodians shall be five, and any decision adopted by the majority of the Custodians attending such meetings shall be deemed to have been validly passed by the Custodians. ....

(Custodians, Ministry of the Custodians, p. 32)

From this I think it is clear that the 9 Hands in the Holy Land were the Custodians. Now regarding of if this should be an article itself, or merged into Hands of the Cause of God, I would lean to it be merged there that remain it's own article. -- Jeff3000 22:44, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the term Custodians is the correct one for the 9 members that acted as the head of the Faith from 57-63. I agree that the term wasn't in the Will, but the 9 members and their functions were described without giving them a title. The title came later.

Regarding everything else I agree. I created this page because every time the Custodians were referenced in an article they came with a little tag in brackets that said (the 9 Hands of the Cause that stewarded the Faith from the passing of Shoghi Effendi to the establishment of the Universal House of Justice). So I created this article and tried to link here instead. It makes the other articles flow much better. I would agree that it could just as well be a section under Hands of the Cause of God, and just as easily linked. Cuñado - Talk 02:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] title

Regarding an earlier discussion about the title, maybe Custodial Hands of the Cause would work?? Cuñado - Talk 06:41, 18 April 2006 (UTC)