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[edit] What the F**k is REL="NO FOLLOW" ???

Presented to WikiProject Spam on 4/17/2006. The Whole Text and Comment History can be found here REL=NOFOLLOW attribute for Wikipedia.

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[edit] destination360.com spam

Hello. I've never really dealt with the spam blacklist before but it seems to be intended as a last resort, when user blocking and page protection doesn't suffice. At this time, 66.235.1.37 (talk • contribs • logs • block user • block log) hasn't spammed since his last warning, (April 20 4:54) so I recommend waiting for him to spam again, deliver a final warning, and if he keeps it up, report him to AIV. It's frustrating, I know — Wikipedia does seem awfully lenient towards blatant spamming. Feezo (Talk) 09:07, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Roy: Thanks for the info. Existing Links should be removed though which brings up a good question: Is there a way to find out how much references (external links in particular) of a phrase or word like "destination360.com" is ACTIVE in ARTICLE Pages? And how does that contacting a meta wiki sysop and requesting a site-wide text filter thing works? Did you ever do that?

Btw. I had my own little conflicts with some other Wikipedia Editors. You will find all about those here at my User Talk page. That whole thing made me actually more interested into those issues at wikipedia and I started to try to find out how to contribute to those problems in a better way which includes some "open" discussions which I picked up and revived again. See my invit on your Talk page regarding those.

I am not shy and my zodiac is Aeries ;)

I am still a bit clunky when it comes to using the tools at wikipedia to find out and track those things that happen "behind the curtain" (invisible to the normal user) in an effective way, but I am learning and discovering new ones. I have years of background in internet and search engine marketing which can be put to good use here at wikipedia. I am not on the "everything for free and without advertising" side (anymore), which literally asks for conflict with some of the other Wikipedians. I was on that "side" when I was younger and active in the BBS scene. I had to change my attitude a little and became more realistic about those things when the first bills came with the mail and had to be paid by myself and the first rent was due for my first own place ;)

We stay in touch. Thanks. --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 09:40, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Google can be very helpful in finding linkspam [1] based on the actual linked text, but I'm not sure if there's an easy way to detect the underlying URLs. Regarding Meta, apparently you can just request it on the blacklist talk page, but I'd wait to see if he keeps spamming. If he gets himself blocked and new/anonymous users start linking to destination360, that is definitely the time to blacklist it. Feezo (Talk) 03:25, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Using Google serach can be very cumbersome to watch for content changes at wikipedia because you only find out the spam day or weeks after the fact when it is already in the index. You also have to filter out if the new result in google is for an article and not a talk page plus you need to check who made the change and when (before a warning or after). But if you use Google, I recommend to use Google Alerts [2] to keep a watch. It alerts you automatically about new pages that show up in the index, making it easier to filter relevant stuff out. You also don't have to check manually all the time. A search tool at Wikipedia would of course be the best. mmh. I guess there is a lot room for improvement --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 06:48, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I think I remember Jimbo saying somewhere that developing a better search engine wasn't a big priority. Probably in view of eventual print or DVD versions, good titles and redirects are considered more important. Anyway, I think that WikiProject Spam does a good job — advertising will always be a problem, but most of it seems to disappear pretty quickly. Feezo (Talk) 01:05, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: WikiProject: SPAM support / RPG

Hey, thanks for the message. Sorry it took so long for me to get back. Busy, busy.

I'm glad you are becoming more active in wikipedia. I am kind of short on editing time myself at the moment, but I will try to help best I can.

I had a look at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam#question. You need to contact a system admin in order to get destination360.com and the other sites blacklisted. This should be fairly simple for an admin to do. (Although, I've never had to look in to something like this myself.) If I was you, I'd also be bold and start removing the links right away. (If you haven't already.)

User_talk:Cumbrowski#WikiProject:Spam_Opinions_and_Facts_wanted_.28Invitation.29, seems rather long. Sorry, I'll have to read it fully later. But a quick glance suggests that you want wikipedia to use REL="NO FOLLOW"? I'm not yet sure where I stand on that. I like the idea in theory, but I am worried that it will cause wikipedians to be less strict with which links are removed. I's something I'm going to have to take a closer look at.

You noticed my RPG table. :) Yes, I've spent a lot of time finishing these. My major problem is they bring new games out faster than I can complete them! I haven't ever played Chrono Trigger. I have heard of it, but it has never been released here in the UK, so it passed under my radar. I have added it to my to play list at your suggestion. I quite like the look of the PS1 version. I might import it. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 15:05, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey, no problem. I understand perfectly. I'am very busy myself and try to squeeze in some time for Wikipedia whenever I can permit it.

Regarding destination360.com am I currently talking to one of the Editors who is watching them in particular. Getting a system admin does not seem to work well. When he told me how he is trying to stay on top of the spammer I realized that this is a battle that can't be won. You can't fight machine guns with bow and arrows. He sounded very frustrating and hopes to get the spammers domain banned eventually (after spamming hundreds of articles, multiple times). Okay that's one way of beating a machine gun. Send a couple hundred people to stom it and may be one will make it and knock it off. I won't do that :). I am somebody who would develop counter measures like amor, hand grenades, mortars, sniper rifles to render machine guns less effective (not obsolete). The equivalent things for wikipedia would be the implementation of "weapons" and "protection" against SPAM via software. The rel=no follow tag is a pretty good "long range" amor, but useless at point blank, but hey, saving some "lifes" is better than none, right? Tools to search and remove known SPAM would be great too. Okay, that would be the equivalent to "Medic" or "Corps man", but they can save "lifes" too :).

Regarding the rel=no follow tag. Yeah, I know it is a lot of Text. The thing is, that there was a vote about it already 14!! months ago and a lot of Veteran Editors and Admins have a "fix" opinion about it and referred me to a bunch of discussions or stated their opinion directly. It was rejected for different reasons. I know quite a bit about this stuff, professionally (see my web homepage for my professional background. To revive the discussion I had to be detailed and thorough . I did not only explain what the tag is, but also it's purpose and impact (I had to explain how Search engines and SEO works a bit for that as well). Then I had to address all comments and statements that are against it's use and in case of vague statements and "beliefs" did I request facts and backgrounds to find out what the belief is based on and address that as well. Finally did I feels the need to provide some background about myself to proof, that I am somewhat of an authority in this field. I also explained my intentions, since I am a "Newbe" and prevent suspicion about wrong intentions. Even my short summary for you is "long" :).

I recommend to skip some of the new titles (most are not as good or deep anyway). Chrono Trigger withstood the test of time (even with Zelda3/FF < 7 graphics). It is until today still consider to be one of the best RPG Games ever. You can compare it with Final Fantasy 7 (without the 3D) if you will, but it is deeper than FF7. As an RPG Fan like you it should be a MUST (screw the new games hehe). If you can't import the PS1 Version and want the SNES Module for an Emulator, let me know. It is not like you don't want to buy it. I played "Internation Karate" on an Emu until they came out with a C64 game joystick which I bought. If they release Chrono Trigger on the DS or "SNES Joystick" buy it or try to pickup the original SNES module on a flee market :). --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 16:05, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Message from Dan / Destination360.com

Dear Wikipedians,

I've been routed to your link as a user and not so frequent contributor to Wikipedia I'm a bit surprised by what has been said. We do have junior developer here in the office that has been tasked with providing search engines with relavant content. As I read your page it looks like to me this has gone beyond what would be providing value to Wikipedia.

This has just been brought to my attention and I would ask you to email me directly at the username D360 if this ever happens again. I personally apologize for his actions we are a repuable company and I do not want "my" company labeled as a spammer.

I do believe some of what was said true is not true but I don't want to get into a he said/she said issue. I do believe there needs to be better measures at contacting potiental spammers.

Best Regards, Dan

destination360.com

responded here! --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 08:04, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Response

I have had an email exchange with Roy Sac regarding this and I hope this has been concluded. Destination360 will not be adding links to wiki but after reading this exchange as well as references that Roy Sac pointed out its clear there is not easy answer and I do not have the time to dedicate resources to this.

As my junior developer pointed out to me. He was following similar users on wiki which he noted several example sites:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa#External_links Link: Jungle Photos They have hundreds of links. All using content "spam"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa#External_links Link: Wiki Travel

Wikitravel has thousands and thousands of links on Wiki. Do you think they are not into selling products? Just wait and see what they do with the brand that Wikipedia help make. In April 2006, Wikitravel and World66, another travel wiki, were acquired by Internet Brands, Inc., an operator of consumer information Web sites. See internet Brands inc for their stable of websites.

and most recently the big brand Travel Advisor has begun using wiki to post links. People I think you have a far bigger problem than the small fish.

Best Regards, Dan

I hear you. Another good example of the commercial exploit of the Wiki Concept is ShopWiki.com. It's not over yet, I think we will see quite some stuff happening in the near future. --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 15:02, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SEO

Thanks for your work on search engine optimization. The article was such a mess before. Jehochman (^Talk/_Contrib) 05:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The external links you added are good. I am in favor of listing the TOP resource of each type. We want to avoid a linkfest were everybody starts adding massive amounts of links. We need these resources because the article contains a lot of general background information without references. The resources are a place people can go to verify the information in the article. Jehochman (^Talk/_Contrib) 05:47, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I saw that you did a bit of cleaning up yourself and thanks for fixing my flawed grammar :). I agree regarding the need for references and to keep the list as short as possible. I know, that you can find the other interesting places without a problem when you start at the most important ones, because of the simple fact that they are important. Everybody else can be found there for that simple reason. I like to have WebmasterRadio.FM in the List. I explained it at the SEO Talk Page. I added a link to the SEO Rockstars Page to make it more clear what the value is for the SEO Article. I'd rather link to their Homepage though. I was also thinking about a Link to the SEOConsultants.com directory, but I figued that it is a bit too commercial. What do you think about that? Btw. did you see my comments at the Talk:Search_engine_optimization Page? --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 08:51, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template:User blogger

(removed complaint per discussion) Fake User 09:27, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I was looking first at Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion for the Template and did not find it. I then checked the Template and saw changed by "Fake User". It looked like a silly joke to me and I revered the change because I believed, that YOU commited an act of vandalism. If you look at the change history of the template, you will see that my change was marked as "rv vandalism". Since this is obviously a case of misunderstandings, be so kind and remove the "drmafd" tag from my Talk Page and create the required entry at the Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion Page. --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 09:47, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Sorry you were confused. I guess there was a span of several minutes there between when I added the tag to the template, and added to the templates for deletion page. Fake User 09:56, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

No Problem. I also found your entry at Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion and voted :). Btw. Your Nick Name did also its part to confuse me even more. I am glad that this was clarified.

I noticed your change to the template so quickly, because I use the "broken" and "not used" template and thought "what the f...?" and checked right away. --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 10:04, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The Template is used by almost 400 Wikipedians. Have a look at Category:Wikipedian_bloggers --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 10:08, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Is the strange brace nesting intentional then? This is what led me to assume that it was unused, although apparently I was wrong. The template itself looks broken, but evidently it's just not user-friendly! Most of those people appear to be using other templates, by the way. Fake User 10:12, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I would like to be able to answer that, but I have no clue about Template Coding. I added another comment to the Vote for Deletions after a few more checks. A lot of Wikipedians are using the Template. You mentioned another Template. Which template are you referring to? I would like to check it out. May be it is better than the Blogger one. --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 10:17, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, for example, you just added this talk page to the category Category:Wikipedian_bloggers by putting [[Category:Wikipedian_bloggers]] in your comment. "Blogger" is a fairly generic term that doesn't necessarily refer to the specific host in this template. Anyway, it looks like someone is futzing with the template itself Template:User blogger so it looks less goofed up in it's naked form. Fake User 10:25, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Shoot, I forgot the trailing leading colon. I fixed my previous comment. Good catch, thanks. Well, whatever comes out of this, I hope a Template for Wikipedians that have a Blog (hence are bloggers) will remain available in whatever form this might be. --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 10:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] dAmn merge request

Hi, thanks for merging dAmn into DeviantArt. I was wondering when someone was going to perform the merge. Thanks for your time and effort! Bye --Starionwolf 00:14, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

my pleassure ... remember: Be Bold! ;-) --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 01:50, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your VandalProof Application

Dear Cumbrowski,

Thank you for applying for VandalProof! (VP). As you may know, VP is a very powerful program, and in fact with the new 1.2 version release it has even more power. As such we must uphold strict protocols before approving a new applicant. Regretfully, I have chosen to decline your application at this time. The reason for this is that for security reasons, VandalProof's creator requires it's users to have made 250 edits to articles, which you have not. Please note it is nothing personal by any means, and we certainly welcome you to apply again in the not too distant future. Thank you for your interest in VandalProof. - Glen ^T_C (Stollery) 06:25, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

How do you know that I have less than 250 Article edits the Edit Counter does not work properly at the moment. I am sure to have the required 250 edits or be at least very close to it. Thanks. --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 16:23, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flag of the Olympic Movement.svg removed from your user page

joturner 18:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the Info and my apologies. I was not aware that the Flag of the Olympic Movement is copyright protected (hence fair use required) and not to be allowed for general public display (eg Homepages). It didn't even cross my mind to check for that image the license details. Interesting. --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 18:36, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, that's partially not your fault because the image was improperly tagged until a couple hours ago. joturner 19:52, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I still admit that I did not check the license on the images I added to the footer of my page (to have them handy when needed). I assumed for all the motives picked, that they are free to use. It still surprises me that the olympic flag one is copyright protected. Did somebody complain? Things like that usually don't happen by coincidence and you are also not a "bot" that is doing some automated house cleaning, I can tell ;). --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 00:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the heads up

I've added alot of ANSI scene groups lately - but not too informed of warez groups i'm afraid. though i started out when the art and warez scene were pretty much one. was never too familiar with the warez art groups later on, with the exception of those who also participated in the demoscene. I'd imagine some people would love to throw out all this scene stuff so i'll let you know if i experience any hostility or misunderstand towards artscene/warez scene articles. --Sodium N4 05:48, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

hey ... thanks. Well, I got my issues with the stuff I am doing professionally. Internet Marketing (Affiliate Marketing, SEM and SEO). You can get your own idea if you check the Talk Pages and change Histories of the Articles I keep Listed on my User Page. Of course not the ones related to Text Art and Demo Scene :) Cya --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 08:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DMoz

Hi Roy, I saw your note on Affiliate Resources. My only issue is with the DMOZ bit as I know for a fact that many DMOZ categories are a closed shop, you can have the best site in the world and they won't let you in - period. To my mind DMOZ should and probably will be (even if it takes a legal case to do it) be removed from the way Google ranks sites. I know there is a class action building against DMOZ and it's likely that every editor may personally be liable for damages/loss of income, if just one case is proved that they willfully withheld the listing of one site then me for sure wouldn't want to be one of their editors. What may have been a hobby may well cost people their homes and lively hoods. Regards, Richard

Hi Richard, I am not sure if refer to the Affiliate Resources on my Website or the Article here at Wikipedia. Regarding the Article here at Wikipedia can I only say, that I am trying to get other References up. When it comes to the resources on my Site then you said it already; It is considered important by Search Engines and you should submit your Site to it, regardless of the Issues of not being added eventually for whatever reason. I don't believe that a lawsuit will have any grounds to be successful. The question is also, if for whatever weird reason a lawsuit will be successful, how far individual editors can be held responsible. If you look at the lawsuits against Google (the already lost ones), you will see, that there is really no legal ground to sue them or any other website for NOT linking/listing any other Website, if the linking is done voluntarily, without a contract and free of charge. I am waiting for the day that somebody sues Digg or Slashdot, because their news did not make it to the Front-page. When it comes to Google and Dmoz, then I can assure you, that I also don't like how they handle things. I had and have my problems with both of them. This does not change the fact, that they do nothing legally wrong. Are they being unfair, ignorant, even unethical at times? Probably yes, but that is not against any law, isn't it? --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 10:58, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Roy,Thanks for the reply re DMOZ etc, I understand where you are coming from. My frustration is in that certain wikipedia editors are deleting any links to other sites other than what are clearly their own commercial ones (and in some cases it is so blatant it's untrue!). I have started a neat little forum at www.amazing-affiliates.com/forums which you might like to review, that said it's only been up for a day but my aim is to develop it into the webs leading affiliate forum. Regards, Richard

(Richard Anonymous Talk Page, just FYI: User_talk:86.63.18.5#Dmoz). Hey Richard, It's about time for you join my discussion about this problem at the Affiliate marketing Article at the Articles Talk Page. The Chapter with the name "discussion about the lag of supporting external resources in this article.". I was the one that added the template to the article to signal that concerns were raised that the "Article lags references to further External, non-encyclopedic Resources that are important for the Subject..". I am almost alone there. Two Editors are against this, big time: User:Barrylb and User:JiFish. One is more reasonable now User:Rhobite. Brad Waller left a comment, but he is not a regular here at Wikipedia. BTW I recommend that you create a Editor Account and not edit "hot" articles anonymous. It also help with the communication (you have a permanent talk page and can also "sign" votes and statements, not to mention that your edits show up in the edit history with your name and not just an IP). --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 14:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Affiliate marketing forum

Roy, After some minor glitches my affiliate marketing forum is up and running and growing in size by the day, I would appreciate if you / people would review it for consideration. The site is not intended as a 'let's see what I can flog on the back end of it' - it is intended to b developed into a serious resource. amazing-affiliates.com/forums Regards, Richard

Did you read my previous response? --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 15:12, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Elonka

Thank you very much for your support in my RfA. Unfortunately consensus was not reached, and the nomination was not successful. However, I do appreciate your encouraging comments, am still in support of the Wikipedia project, and will continue to contribute without interruption. Thanks again! --Elonka 17:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

it was my pleasure, too bad that there was no consensus. Next time ;). Keep up your good work. Cheers. --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 18:04, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Affiliate Network

Insert non-formatted text here

Hey Cumbrowski,

It's Christian Lavender and I was wondering if I could add NETFINITI as an affiliate marketing network. This network powers financial affiliate marketing programs like CreditCards.com.

Let me know if you have any questions and if it's OK to add it to the list on the affiliate marketing page.

Thanks,

Christian Lavender AffiliateLesson.com

Hi Christian, You don't have to contact me to ask for permission. I am just a volunteer editor. You can make edits yourself what would be very much appreciated. If you think about adding external links to any article, have a look at WP:EL for Guidance. You could for example Create a complete article about Netfiniti like it was done for some of the other networks and then add a link from the Affiliate marketing article to that new article. Look at them for some reference, like structure, category etc. My User Homepage has a bunch of Links to helpful pages you should check as well. Netfiniti is a niche network. This area is very poorly covered in Wikipedia. If you are knowledgeable about this, feel free to contribute and add multiple articles that explain individual details about that industry. Thanks. Cheers, --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 04:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Affiliate marketing

Thanks for your message -- looks like a good place to spend some time looking over things and I'll be happy to spend some time there in the next few days. Best, --MCB 07:38, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] renewal of greencard

please confirm me the procedure of renewing my greencard which has been expired on 13 july 2006

I am no lawyer to give you legal advice and have no experience when it comes to the renewal of a Green Card, because I am still working on getting one in the first place. However, I spend plenty of time on Imigration Websites so I might be able to point you to a resource. I need some more information. Are you currently living in the United States? How did you get your Green Card, Marriage? If you got it because of marriage, are you still married with the american that sponsored your green card in the first place? A Green card because of marriage is at the beginning in "trial" status and you depend on the marriage with your spouse to keep it. Your status changes after 2-3 years (I need to check the exact time fram), but I don't think that this happens automatically (also something to check). The INS often reviews the application and marriage at the end of the trial to determine if it was a "fake" marriage (to get a green card) or not. Best thing to do is contacting the lawyer that helped you with getting one in the first place. If you did not have a lawyer back then, have a look here for resources to find one. --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 10:34, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SEO

Please check first paragraph of SEO and edit as you like. Jehochman (^Talk/_Contrib) 20:15, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

you mean the beginning of "Early search engines and the Origin of SEO"? Sorry, but I had to remove the statements to "who coined SEO". See my comments at the articles talk page. I also nominated for deletion the article Rich257 suggested to merge into the SEO article. You can provide your take on that here. Thanks. --roy<sac> ^Talk! .oOo. 11:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)