Talk:Culturally significant phrases from The Simpsons

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PLEASE NOTE the definition of a neologism for this list: It must be a word or phrase invented by the show that has a definition. It can't be a gibberish or nonsense phrase. It can't be the name of an invented product, location, or person. It should also not be a spoonerism or other type of misspoken or invented actual word (such as adding 'ish' to an existing word).

"The glossary has even made its way to the ivory tower, with some of North America's foremost language experts weighing in on its cultural significance." —Ottawa Citizen, October 19, 2005


  • /Archive 1: July 2005 – March 2006
  • /Archive 2: July 2006 – September 2006

Contents

[edit] massive paring, external sources

This list needs a massive paring, I think. The simpsons contains a huge number of made up words, and we can't possibly document every one of them--the arguments over definition have proven the reasons behind the prohibitions on original research. What we can do, however, is cite sources besides the show that recognize words coined by the show, like the dictionary entry for cromulent or d'oh. Words and phrases that don't have sources outside the show supporting their status as neologisms need to be removed. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 10:18, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

If you only count words that have been use by news organizations or dictionaries you're going to end up with something like... 5 words. Point is that people use the phrase "Car Hole" and "Jebus" and "Unpossible" now even if it's not news people. I completely agree that the list is bloated and there are some words like Capdabbler or Dodgerock which have very little likelihood that anyone is really using them, but there are tons of words that people do use because the Simpsons is so huge and has infiltrated pop culture. The problem is that there's no way to draw the line reasonably at words that have invaded the language and words that the show simply made up that people didn't latch on to. Hence people argue that word X belongs on the list, and there's no real response. I'm quite sure "Boo-urns" has never been in any legitimate book or news item of any kind, but It's still quite a commonly used phrase realtive to a phrase made up on most other shows, for example. If you wanna try to sort this out? be my guest. I'm tired of having people yell at me every time I delete a word. TheHYPO 22:06, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
Unless you can find those sources, though, how can you prove that people are using these words? The principles of wikipedia is Verifiability, not truth. Even if you personally know that everyone says "unpossible" or "jebus," unless you can cite another source to support that you can't verify the information. That's why I think only the words that have recieved external attention should be included in the list. I think I'll wait a couple of days for more comments and then I'll take off every word without a citation to verify its status as a neologism in use outside the show. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 02:50, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Again, that's the problem with your complaint. I can tell you how often on a weekly basis I hear it from people - I can tell you proof from a firsthand experience, but as for citable written proof, "how often people say something" isn't something significant that can be found in a written cite. If you wanna bring the article down to D'oh, Cromunilent and "Don't have a Cow, Man", feel free. Just expect a lot of complaints from a lot of people (not me, but others). Most people don't feel this list is a list of words that have entered OUR English language, but rather neologisms which are used as if part of the lexicon of the show - things characters say as if they are perfectly normal words or phrases, and therefore are neologisms on the show. Not in real life. TheHYPO 12:13, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
If they're only used on the show, then it's textbook fancruft. The Simpsons may be the most popular animated show of the last two decades, but it's still fancruft. Most of these entries were only used in a single episode, too, so there's no point in including them anywhere besides the episode articles. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 13:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Have fun. Don't forget to RfD all the redirects that redirect here based on ones you delete or you're gonna get people whining here that "x redirects here, but there's no entry for x... wtf" (see the various instances of this above) TheHYPO 16:06, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Just wondering why when I searched for Screamapillar it redirected me here where I could find nothing.

Explain to me how massive paring and cutting will help "build a comprehensive and detailed guide?" Even if you perceive a word to be fancruft, or if it doesn't fit some pedantic interpretation of neologism, it's not taking up that much space, is it? It seems like this Wikipedia entry would be enriched by having hundreds of words, even including those with questionable provenance, rather than a dozen or so "culturally significant" words and phrases. I just want to see what episode crisitunity is in. And now, instead of Wikipedia being a robust source where I can find this information, it's a thin and shallow source that is unhelpful.

That's what google is for. If you just google "Christitunity" and "Simpsons episode" you'll find it in the first 10 hits. Natalie 16:33, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beemobile, De-bigulator and Karmaceutucal

I have re-inserted these entiries, because they are in fact neologisms, according to Wikipedia's entry:

A neologism is a [word] or phrase which has been recently created -- often to apply to new concepts, or to reshape older terms in newer language form. Neologisms are especially useful in identifying inventions, new phenomena, or old ideas which have taken on a new cultural context. The term e-mail, as used today, would be an example of a neologism.

"Beemobile" was created as a parody to an old term, Batmobile, which adds excitement to the context of the scene. A "de-bigulator" is the name of an invention. "Karmaceutical" is a combination of two common words to create a new word.
There are several entries on this page which are not accually neologisms. I think so many entries distract from the actual meaning behind the page, so every catch-phrase and gibberish becomes a new entry.

I'm not going to get into the debate again about what a neologism actually is because it completely depends on how wide or narrow you apply the term. De-bigulator was removed from the page because this was decided not to be a list of fictional inventions, products, places or names of things/people/etc. But all I have to say is that if you're argument is that this list has too many things distracting it that are really of little or no significance, I don't know why you are adding Beemobile or Karmaceutical back in. For heaven's sake, Karmaceutical isn't even a word. It's the name of a store. A word has to actually MEAN something to be a neologism, and the name of the store isn't a thing. It's never even used in a sentance. Beemobile is the name a guy who likes bees gives to his car. It's a nickname, not a neologism. It's not a "New word" that can describe something. TheHYPO 00:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


I don't understand why there is a debate about the word 'de-bigulator' being in the article. It is certainly the name of a fictional invention, one which may also be applied to any device that causes a macroscopic object to be shrunk to microscopic size. This more than satisfies the requirements for being a neologism. Meanwhile there are entries like 'A wizard did it' that clearly deserve to be deleted. Karmaceuticals is the name of a store, but it can also refer to the products inside the store, those being natural or traditional medicinal products. So it does mean something and it can be applied to things in the real world. Beemobile can similarly be used to refer to a vehicle that real beekeepers drive. For all these terms, I think it is irrelevant as to whether they are 'brand names' or generic terms, because they can all be easily adapted to refer to generic things, and when they occur in the episodes there is not really any clear indication which of them they are. Anyway, whether they truly qualify as neologisms or not, it would be unfair to delete them while allowing about a hundred others that are much less deserving of mention in the article. So I say they should be put back in. Gorilla 322 00:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
"one which may also be applied to any device" - but that's the point. Sure, we can APPLY it to any such device, but the show does not do so. In the show, it's applied to a specific invention. Because the name is generic, it could be applied to other such machines, like Kleenex is today, but it's still a brand name in reality. If the machine was called "The De-Bigulator 5000" I don't think we'd be having this discussion because it would not be applicable to any device but this specific device. Even without the "5000", that's basically the same case here. De-Bigulator is a specific machine. "a shrinking machine" might be a generic term and if it had been used. The problem is that we're getting into a debate of how it's used on the show, (not a neologism, just a product) vs. how it could be used in real life by you or I, even if it's applying that product name to something else. "Beemobile can similarly be used to refer to a vehicle that real beekeepers drive." Again, no. It can't. In the show, he says "To THE Beemobile". That means there is one such vehicle - his - and that it's a specific name he's given to it. now YOU as a fan of the show, might copy his name and genericise it, but unless there is cited evidence that this has happened in the real world, it's merely your theory. I could do the same thing If I wanted "Groundskeeper Willie: Any Scottish school Janitor". Sure on the show he's one character, but in real life, the name could be used to describe any scottish janitor. Definately a neologism. See how the argument doesn't hold up? I don't disagree that "A Wizard Did It" wouldn't be my personal choice on the list, and there are other such bad entries, but it doesn't mean that we should add more. At least A Wizard Did It has cited other uses outside the show. However, the entry itself is getting a bit bloated by outside facts that probably don't need to be there. TheHYPO 12:52, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

TheHYPO 12:48, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yoink!

This may be trivial, but I believe I remember hearing on an audio commentary that the origin of this word is not from George Meyers, as stated in the article, but they got it from Archie Comics. Anyone else remember where this is from? --WillMak050389 04:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Panaphonics redirects here...

however, it isn't being mentioned in the P-section. --Mikli 14:55, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] REDIRECTS THAT DON'T EXIST

Hear ye, hear ye - the list is constantly being pruned for items that don't belong on this list. People sometimes make redirects for words to this list that are later pruned. Instead of mentioning it on the talk page, I suggest you simply list the redirect for deletion. It's a really simple two-step process: Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion#How to list a redirect for deletion

TheHYPO 22:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Well I did so. Thanks for the advice. --Mikli 09:47, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sticktoittiveness

This one, pronounced "stick-to-it-tive-ness" should probably be added. From the episode from Season 8 - The Old Man and The Lisa. Early in the episode Skinner asks Burns if its important for success in business.

No. It's not a Simpsons neologism, it's been in common usage for at least three decades. Anchoress 02:45, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I'm done with this page.

It seems people just want to turn this page into a giant mess, adding fancrufty entries and non-neologistic entries and facts about the entries that are simply untrue or uncorroborated. Can anyone show me that Gibby Gabby is based on Mr.T's Jibber Jabber? They are both pairs of wirds with different vowel sounds. That doesn't make them related. Frankly, if you want to turn it into a fancruft list of every word the series has made up, fine. It's not worth my time to maintain this page anymore. Just don't be surprised if the page ends up deleted as a pointless fancruft list with no real-world legitimacy. TheHYPO 13:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I just discovered this page, and I have to say, I agree. The Simpsons might have technically "created" all of these terms, but the vast majority of them aren't exactly integrated into the English language. I haven't even heard of 95% of them. --Foot Dragoon 03:58, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Assal Horizontarology

I don't think the term means "sitting". I think it means "causing the ass to become horizontally enlarged" ie: fatter. I don't think that either definition is encyclopedic. Valley2city 17:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

That is why the entry has a warning to stop f#@#n' adding theories as to the meaning. But no one cares.

[edit] Proposal: Add a 'non-neologism' section

I can see lots of 'discussion' on this talk page about the listing of items on this page that are not neologisms but keep getting put on the page anyway. I'd like to propose that this page gains a section of "Non-neologisms", introduced as a list of items that are commonly mistaken for neologisms although they are not. To this list would be moved all the phrases and names and other items that are mistakenly put on the page.

The hope is that:

  1. It will retain 'encyclopedia'ness, in that readers will still find the content useful even if that came to the page looking for neologisms
  2. It will cause people browsing the page looking to see if their favourite phrase is there to not put the phrase into the list of neologism, because it's already on the page (albeit in the non-neologisms section)

However, since there's nothing new in the world, I'm sure other WikiProjects have grappled with this issue before and resolved it in other ways - perhaps by creating a new page for those other items (which would have the drawback of 'hiding' it from users considering editing this page).

My inclination would be for the non-neologisms to be only listed and not explained - many will be links to their episode articles anyway, and will achieve the side-goal of shortening the page and focusing on real neologisms --Mortice 20:35, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

  • If such a list were created, I propose that it be kept on the talk page, since the topic is already at the periphery of encyclopedic content. --Dystopos 21:41, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


The list is already 90% fancruft and such a section would simply devolve it further. Here's a thought: Start a Simpsons wiki. Simpsons fans seem to want to hijack wikipedia and toss every bit of simpsons info onto it; This stuff belongs in a Simpsons wiki - not in a real-world wiki. As much as I love most of the catch phrases that the show has spawned, none if it is encyclopedically relevant to the real world. about 90% of the phrases on this list belong in the garbage. TheHYPO 03:35, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where'd frogurt go?

It's not in Treehouse of Horror III, and there's a #redirect to here from Frogurt; did it get removed at some point? --moof 22:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

  • From the intro to the article: "The following is presented more as a glossary of words or phrases invented by the show which one or more characters use in regular speech, as though intended as real terms. This does not include names of invented characters, locations, or products." Frogurt is a product, a product of the fictional "House of Evil", and not a neologism as such. I'll fix the redirect. --Dystopos 22:44, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Since it was in use before The Simpsons, it isn't an invented product either. Anchoress 00:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Got an etymology/cite, Anchoress? (random googling is not turning up much; almost all mentions are simpsons related.) --moof 03:40, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 40 Rods to the Hogshead?

I could swear it was to the furlong. I've seen this episode a few times and don't recall ever hearing the term hogshead. 64.178.136.74 11:08, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

The quote is correct TheHYPO 00:33, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Also, 40 rods to the furlong wouldn't make sense as furlong is distance and hoghead is volume...--WillMak050389 22:23, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
I think you mean it wouldn't make sense as a joke... because there actually are 40 rods to a furlong. --Dystopos 22:41, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, thats what I meant. Thanks. --WillMak050389 22:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Mazuma

'Mazuma' is not a neologism at all; it's archaic British slang, and it comes from the Yiddish word 'mezumen,' meaning money.Bws2002 03:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Waynescotting

This is not a neologism. It is, however, misspelled. There's even a wainscoting article. — Aluvus t/c 02:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BBBQ

Entry for BBBQ makes little sense, it explains one acronym in terms of another unexplained acronym. I tried to understand it, really I did but it is just bad explanation if it requires you had to have seen the episode to understand it. (Do not assume readers know BBQ is short for Barbeque or BYOB stands for bring your own beer.) If it is joke it needs further explanation (or maybe it was only funny in context), if it is a quote from the show it need to be marked as such. Horkana 15 December 2006

Why should it not be assumed that readers don't know what BBQ stands for? maybe it should be wikilinked (why don't you just do this instead of coming to the talk page and complaining) because that's what wikilnks are for - explaining potentially unknown terms, but if people might not know what BBQ means, why assume they even know what a barbecue is either? I personally don't even think BBBQ is a neologism. It's an acronym, and shouldn't qualify TheHYPO 08:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eating Food

I am not sure why this was removed, so here is my rationale for adding it in the first place.

Under the definition of neologism, the phrase eating food is a synthesis of old terms, which is used in a manner that is supposed to sound contemporary. Because eating and food are complementary words, as one directly implies the other, their redundancy is a new phrase that is supposed to sound original.
No where in any dictionary will you find eating food, n'or will one find it in any proper English text. One would not say "my holding box" in the same manner, unless one intended to make a new phrase from pre-existing terms.
I was the one who previously removed this. The edit by 195.176.0.50 sheds some light - it makes it clear that 'eating' is an adjective, not a verb (as it would be assumed to be with a lack of context to imply otherwise), as in "food for eating". I'm still in two minds as to whether this complies with the definition of neologism
Any others care to chip in their views? --Mortice 00:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scrod basket

Ummm, a more realistic interpretation (bypassing the stupidity of a fish container) is analogy to the Midwest as America's/the World's bread basket, or California as America's salad bowl. This entry is one of the more egregious examples of the speculation/l;ack of citaiton for which the node is bannered.-- Belg4mit 00:55, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Splitting

I think that kwyjibo is so popular that it deserves its own page/subpage.

Go Futurama! Sp3000 10:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't about popularity. The word appears in all of 30 seconds of one episode of a 17 year show. Unless you can show some sort of actual significance in the real world, I don't see how it justifies its own page. TheHYPO 11:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Wizard Did It

Since this is an example of obscure/evasive/humorous reasoning (a childish excuse) rather than any sort of neologism, I have removed it and pointed redirects to the article Treehouse of Horror X which, through the magic of fancruft/original research, contains a full exegesis of the phrase as it relates to Rabbinical principles, Cervantes, and, in particular, the minor concepts which are not fleshed out in Terry Pratchett's Discworld books (but are given full treatment here, on the encyclopedia that anyone can edit.) --Dystopos 23:46, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hopeless

I enjoyed this list when I first came upon it, and I have tried to do what I can to improve it, but I'm beginning to believe it's a lost cause. If it is to be at all verifiable as a list of neologisms and purged of original research, then it will likely consist of only one or two entries, at best. If it is not a list of neologisms, but merely a list of made-up words and phrases, then it hardly belongs to an encyclopedia. I suggest offloading this cruft to Wikisimpsons Central or another suitable site before some request for comment, article improvement drive, or deletion nomination gets this in their teeth. --Dystopos 23:33, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Car Hole (Hold)

I made an edit that was fair to both interpretations of this term and it has been removed. If one listens to Moe, he says "hold", and if one listens to Homer, he says "hole." The subtitles refuse to work on my DVD but it's clear to me who says what and that snpp.com, whose transcripts are unofficial, is not the final authority of who says what especially since I've found errors in the past as well. The first few times I saw this episode I thought it was "hole" as well but since then I've heard Moe's distinct "d" at the end. I don't want to get into an editing war over this especially because mine laid out all the cards and offered evidence for both interpretations and a possible reason for Moe and Homer's differences while this new one provides none. Point me to a script and a voice over schedule that proves it was "hole" all along and I'll shut up. Until then, both interpretations, based solely on who says what and not snpp.com, should be given fair shake.Levelistchampion 22:24, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I listened to it again and I didn't hear any notable 'd' at the end, but even if you did, and you might have - it makes no sense. There is no logical reason for him to say Car hold. The point of the joke is that "Garage" is too fancy for Moe, so he say something as low-brow literal joe schmo as possible - car hole. At worst, Moe's pronounciation is ambiguous. Homer's is clear. TheHYPO 16:34, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm listening to it with AB repeat on maximum volume and I'm still not convinced but I'm moving more to the center; I hear it half and half. A couple points. Yes, you're right, Moe is contrasting the French word (meaning "to dock" btw) with the word "hole" and it fits for the reason you say--I'd like to point out that a garage is not a hole but then again, a home is generally not a castle either. It seems obvious I know, but I'm just sayin'. Also--and this'll sound kind of silly, and it is-- but since Homer is not the originator of the term, and has time and time again proved his status as a moron, I hardly believe using him as evidence for the "hole" is accurate. See unreliable narrator. I'll leave this issue alone now since my conviction has gone from solid to shakey. Now I can return to the comfort of the gutteral "hole" instead of what I thought at the time to be Moe's literal translation of the word "garage."Levelistchampion 02:29, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
It's akin to calling the mouth one's a "food hole" or "word hole" or "pie hole" ("shut your word hole", one might threaten). My opinion is that it is not intended to be any parallel to french. It's merely the most 'low brow' way to describe a garage. Also note that both the recording technique and the general pattern of speech Moe uses is more likely to cloud the pronounciation of words than Homer's. TheHYPO 07:00, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Granted the Simpsons writers dropped off quite a bit after the departure of Brad Bird and Conan O'Brian, but they're still not so dull as to use "car hold" when "car hole" is actually funny. --Dystopos 05:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poindextrose

I have inserted this twice, with definition and explanation, and both times it has been removed. WHY? - R. New, 15:22 GMT, 26th October 2006

I wouldn't worry for the moment, because there's a proposal that will probably end in the majority of items on the list being deleted. I think 'Poindextrose' is in the same family - it may well have been mentioned on an episode, but it's not a defining phrase of the show in the way "D'oh" is. Come back in a week and it will all be different...
BTW new entries on the 'talk' page should by convention be put at the end of the page - you put this at the beginning, I've moved it down here --Mortice 17:20, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
It's pretty clear. A fictional chemical is not a neologism. No more than a fictional model of car would be, or a fictional brand of food. A neologism should not be a PROPER noun. TheHYPO 17:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] It's slash and burn time!

Since the AFD is clearly going to fail, it is time for the other option to be presented - the slash and burn.

I am going to tag everything that I cannot see any evidence has entered mainstream conversation/usage (and has been EVIDENCED by a third-party source) with a tag. Then I will attack those with my sharpest blade in a week if sources don't appear (which of course does not stop anyone else slashing them first).

--Charlesknight 18:18, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


Actually why the hell am I going to do that - time to put WP:BOLD into place - feel free to add back any that have any real sources to them that show they have entered mainstream usage. --Charlesknight 18:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Well done, Charles - I think your edits are in line with the majority of the AfD votes --Mortice 13:57, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lets change the name of this article

I propose we move the article to a better name, and that we should discuss the best name to use.

This is because:

  • It contains phrases like "Don't have a cow, man", which are great to have in a list of words/phrases, but are not neologisms
  • The name should reflect the new sense of the list - only externally referenced phrases, not 'every neat word anyone can think of' (and yes, we'll have to police this well)

So what would be a good new name?

  • List of culturally significant phrases from The Simpsons
  • List of original phrases from The Simpsons
  • List of neat stuff

Ideas? --Mortice 14:06, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


List of culturally significant phrases or something similar would be my choice. --Charlesknight 14:10, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I forgot to add - we should rewrite the bit at the top of the page too, but only once we've decided the philosiphy for inclusion --Mortice 14:50, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I'm all for sweepng cuts but...

The recent cuts are BS. And I say this simply because: You have no basis to make them. Why does "Chocotastic" remain, but Crisitunity or Retirony are nixed? Explain your logic, because it seems to be that the list is now totally arbitrary. TheHYPO 14:14, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Well this is really really easy - a) I took a guess based on my knowledge of the show and popular culture; in conjunction with b) in line with policy, I removed any and all statements that did not have supporting evidence that they matched the criteria listed at the top of the page. Eemember it's upto an editor who wants something to exist in an article to show why it should be there NOT for other editors to provide evidence why it does not. You feel free to add back any you can find verfiable third-party sources that indicate that they have entered general usage/popular culture.


So which ones do you have sources for? --Charlesknight 14:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it should also be that the phrase is known or suspected to have entered the culture because of The Simpsons. I removed 'unpossible' because the backup reference was to Shakespeare, so clearly it's just a coincidence. I'm not sure whether or not the same is true of 'killbot' or 'smokesperson' - very likely just coincdence of wording (although I bet you can't easily separate the Simpsons writing team from the Futurama team) --Mortice 14:49, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I see no evidence that chocotastic (chocolate, fantastic) has any basis in the real world due to the simpsons. It's far more likely that it was a coincidentally named flavour that is cited in the article. The article cites no evidence that indicates that the Simpsons is the result of the realtively easy-to-come-up-with term. TheHYPO 05:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
well BE BOLD and remove it then. --Charlesknight 06:39, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
As far as what should be added, I'm staying out of this. But I think the ones on the list right now (Boo-urns, cromulent, d'oh, Don't have a cow, embiggen, jebus, kwyjibo, okely dokely, tomacco, and yoink!) are all worthy of inclusion. A re-titling is probably in order though, considering that "don't have a cow" is a phrase and yoink was not invented by the Simpsons. Natalie 17:30, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I raised the question of renaming the page (section above this one), but got only one responder so not much of a consensus. But perhaps I should be bold and move it along what seems to be a consensus of those that have responded. Anyone want to chip in a bid? --Mortice 18:35, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I would say that, with the exception of "don't have a cow", the title would be accurate. It does say "List of neologisms on the Simpsons", not "List of neologisms from the Simpsons". A very brief paragraph noting that neologisms that were popularized by the Simpsons are also included would make that title extra-accurate. But if "don't have a cow, man" stays, than I don't really know what the title should be. Natalie 18:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I think there's no reason to stick with the original 'neologism' theme - much better to have a page whose name is appropriate to its content rather than sticking with 'neologism' just for historical reasons, and would deter people from adding their own favouite neologisms. Would you consider "List of culturally significant phrases from The Simpsons" to be any better? It would require that all entries have external references, which is no bad thing --Mortice 19:14, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Too many indents. I'm okay with "culturally significant phrases", with some redirects and a good lede. What do other people think? Natalie 20:07, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A suggestion that may help

Perhaps a editors note (those ones that can only be seen in the edit window, not in the article) would prevent the well-meaning but mistaken additions. I'm thinking along the lines of "Please DO NOT add words or phrases to this list without..." and then whatever we want people to do before they add stuff. This would obviously not deter the crufty folks, but may at least point well-meaning people - those thinking "how could they forget _____" (especially those new to Wikipedia) - to the discussion, Wikipedia policies, blah blah blah. Natalie 17:26, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Drafting the new heading text

I've started a user page drafting the new heading text in preparation for moving this page, and I'd appreciate any further thoughts on the best exact wording for the title of the page.

Come see and comment at User:Mortice/Culturally significance phrases from The Simpsons --Mortice 18:43, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scotchtoberfest

Scotchtoberfest, from the episode Bart's Girlfriend redirects here, yet there is no information on it in this article. Could anyone add some information on it? Cheers JackSparrow Ninja 08:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Edited so it redirects to Bart's Girlfriend --Closedmouth 12:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
That may be a problem - a bunch of pages redirect to this page, but really shouldn't have a slot here. Natalie 14:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re-Move

I have re-moved the page to Culturally significant phrases from The Simpsons instead of Culturally significance, since the latter is not proper English. I would like some help in fixing the redirects and whatnot. Natalie 15:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

The link in the Simpsons template at the bottom of articles is now a double redirect. I don't know how to fix templates. Natalie 15:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
OK, I think I fixed the template, but article with the template are still showing up as "what links here" on "list of neologisms". So I'm stumped. If someone who is a little better-versed in the the vagaries of templates wants to look, please do. Natalie 18:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
On the 'what links' to 'neologisms' list, there now seem to be hardly any pages except in alternative namepsaces or redirect pages - guess you were seeing a slow database update. BTW I changed 'neologisms' to 'phrases' on the template --Mortice 18:41, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Excellent. Glad to know the template problem fixed itself. "Phrases" sounds great; I couldn't think of anything at the time so I just left it. Natalie 21:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge in the clowns

I've proposed over on Can't sleep, clown will eat me that it gets merged in here, since this is now a much more focused page --Mortice 18:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Agree. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 21:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Also agree, "Can't sleep..." isn't notable enough for me to have its own article, but as long as it redirects here, it should be fine. --WillMak050389 22:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to copy these over to the Can't sleep, clown will eat me page so everyone sees them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Natalie Erin (talk • contribs) 22:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Overlord meme

Is there a reason why Overlord meme isn't mentioned on this page? -- Scorpion0422 21:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Not that I know of. Perhaps it should, or they should be merged. Natalie 21:51, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
i added the merge tags Sparsefarce 22:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I support a merge of Overlord meme to this page for same reasons as for Can't sleep, clown will eat me. --WillMak050389 22:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Not a phrase I've ever heard of. It would be preferable if the title of the section reflected the words in the phrase, rather than using the word 'meme' - perhaps I, for one, welcome our new overlords. It would also be nice if there were a (famouse?) citeable instance of the phrase, rather that just saying 'popular on SlashDot' (tho the link to the langauge log is good to see). Not sure why the page referes to a film that doesn't include the phrase. I guess I think for merging it would need to be reorganised as a paragraph explaining the phrase and explaining where outside The Simpsons it's been used --Mortice 22:24, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with the proposed merge. The Overlord meme is a snowclone, and it's used as much more than simply a popular quote from the Simpsons. If the only use of it ever was the exact quote "And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords", I would agree with the merge, because then it is a significant phrase from the Simpsons. But since it always shows up as "X overlords" and not "insect overlords", I think it's a culturally significant phenomonen that happens to be based on a remark made on the Simpsons. Also, I wonder how many people hear the phrase and connect it automatically with the Simpsons. "Can't sleep, clown will eat me", yes. But the overlord meme, imho, is more universal than that. Kolindigo 23:13, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I never thought it should be merged here... I was just wondering why it wasn't mentioned... -- Scorpion0422 23:25, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Then perhaps it shouldn't be merged. But it should be at least mentioned. Natalie 23:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
It belongs in List of Internet phenomena right along with All Your Base Are Belong To Us, since where else except the internet have you heard it? 68.114.109.186 18:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, the Simpsons, for starters, which is where the phrase originiated from. Natalie 18:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
a slightly varied version of it was used in one of the Grand Theft Auto games. I think it was San Andreas. Sparsefarce 18:55, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ahoy-hoy

I was wondering if we should include some mention of Ahoy-hoy, even though The Simpsons didn't invent it, they repopularized it so perhaps it should be mentioned (But NOT merged...) -- Scorpion0422 23:25, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I think a lot of things were taken out during the last major trimming, because the title of the page was neologisms. Now that the page has a different title, Ahoy-hoy belongs there (just like yoink!). Natalie 23:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Great idea! --Mortice 00:05, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
with the normal qualification - if they are culturally significant, it will be no problem providing 3rd party sources that allude to that fact. --Charlesknight 11:58, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Editors are suspected of being overly pedant, to the point of ruining this article (title corrected for thin internet skins)

This is a devolution for Wikipedia. I check this article from time to time to reference words from the Simpsons. I see that it has now been gutted by pedants. Perhaps this really is going to crap. Maybe I'll start going to Britannica so that I can get a glossed over shallow couple of paragraphs on a topic instead of an in depth article over even the most insignificant things. Cfpresley 03:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Wikipedia's own policy is destroying itself. Muphy's Law states that no matter how many bad things you prevent, another one will occur. Wikipedia is protected from vandalism, trolling, and factual inaccuracies, but not from self destruction. Wikipedia policy should not bite the hand that feeds it. Pretty soon good editors will stop adding information that bad editors call fancruft. Ocicatmuseum 17:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I am also rather unhappy by the gutting of this article recently instead of perhaps changing the name of the article to something that is more relevant to the content. Now I find the article almost useless with so few words. I also enjoyed looking up this article for many words and catch phrases used in the Simpsons. I would prefer to rename this article to something more appropriate rather than gutting it to fit the name "Neologisms" 4.241.18.174 21:06, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

First off, it's not a great way to start a reasoned debate by insulting the people you're talking to - so I guess you don't want a discussion, just an argument. I don't know who you're blaming about obsession and editing, since lots of us have been involved, and many people contributed to the discussion which lead to this being done. Take a look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of neologisms on The Simpsons, you'll see a few dozen people agree with the motion, so I don't see why you think your opinion is more important than those few dozen. Wikipedia doesn't want to be all things to all people, there are other places you can go to fill articles with fancuft --Mortice 13:00, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps I was harsh in my assessment and for that I apologize. I was frustrated at the deep cuts of the article, regardless of the cutter's rationalization. However I did call it like I saw it. Perhaps the editor was misguided yet well intentioned. I have edited my previous comment to make it nicer and more civil to those with thin skins. 4.241.18.161 06:30, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Oh no I wasn't misguided, all my actions have purpose. I slashed the article in line with policy. --Charlesknight 09:19, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for replying, Charlesknight. I respectfully disagree with your cuts, and in a way I do understand your reasoning, being I sometimes am overly analytical about the "letter of the law" ignoring the "spirit of the law". But sometimes following the "letter of the law" or as you might say, being "in line with policy" is not always the correct path to follow. 4.241.18.200 00:08, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Well there is an easy way around that - people just need to re-add in all of the examples of words that they can reference with multiple third-party sources. Those they cannot, they should not put back in. For all the talk we see on this page, I've seen nobody actually attempt to do so - generally because they know they are unable. I will not removed anything that is well-sourced. There is really no way around it - if it's not in line with policy and guideline - then either people need to move to have policies and guidelines changed or they need to consider WHY the material they are trying to add is not in line with current policy and guidelines. I've spent the last couple of days looking at simpsons articles and I really think that the simpsons project needs to stop creating and adding new material and concentrate on the quality of existing articles - so of the episode guides have quote lists that seems to consist of a full transcript of the episode. This article is just a small element of a wider problem (and I don't want to appear as if I am singling out the simpsons wikiproject, it's common to all of the fan-based projects - it's enought to make a grown man cry when you look at some of the Magic the gathering pages or some of the Pokemon pages. --Charlesknight 10:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I've always been a proponant of trimming this article for unnecessary crap (I was not the one who gutted it). There are some phrases that I think should be on this page and some that shouldn't. The problem is, someone else has another opinion on what phrases should and shouldn't be on here. I hestitantly agree with the sentiment that a list like this TRUELY belongs on a SIMPSONS wiki (which I can't believe there isn't one already). Only truely "famous" and "publically known" phrases should really be on here, but how do you judge that? "Me Faily English? That's unpossible" is one of the most quoted lines of my middle school career, but does it have any legitimate basis for being on this list? not really. Not without listing virtually every amusing phrase the show has ever produced, whether people latched onto it or not. TheHYPO 04:50, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

The title of this thread is IMO a violation of WP:CIVIL - would the originator kindly consider changing it? Anchoress 06:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Done. I forgot that being nice Embiggens the..., hold on let me check wikipedia for the rest of that phrase.Cfpresley 23:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
  • For those looking for detailed information on the Simpsons which goes beyond the scope of a general interest encyclopedia, I suggest WikiSimpsons Central. --Dystopos 17:13, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Verifiability and Original Research

Two of Wikipedia's cornerstone policies are that article content must be verifiable and must not be original research. (See Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research). With regard to the content of this article there is little hope of meeting those policies. The change in name does not open the door to re-adding the entire list of non-standard words used in The Simpsons. In fact it complicates the issue because a list of "neologisms" can be verified by appeal to contemporary dictionaries while a list of "culturally significant phrases" is almost entirely subjective. Which culture are we talking about? World culture? English-speaking culture? American culture? Pop culture? Geek culture? Simpsons geek culture? or just you and your intimate circle of Simpsons greek friends who like to argue over "Car Hole" vs "Car Hold" and would like to enjoin Wikipedia as part of the battle? In my opinion this list can never bridge the gap between being a useful reference for fans and being a verifiable, encyclopedic topic for Wikipedia. The best tack, in my opinion, would be to move it to WikiSimpsons Central or another Simpsons wiki and summarize the effect of the Simpsons on English usage in a paragraph or two of well-written prose, rather than an unmaintainable list. --Dystopos 17:29, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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