Talk:Cryptonomicon

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Contents 1 Spoiler warning necessary? 2 Where's the Solitaire Algorithm? 3 Citing 4 Steganographically hide code? 5 Dan Brown reference 6 Sealand vs Brunei vs Kinakuta 7 Necronomicon? 8 "I don't want to hear the lizard story, Sergeant!" 9 Charlene and Rabbi Kahn 10 Fictional books category 11 Misleading article to say the least.

[edit] Spoiler warning necessary?

Umm why is there a spoiler warning here?? --Anonymous

Yeah, it doesn't seem necessary at the moment. — Matt 00:41, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Where's the Solitaire Algorithm?

What page in Cryptonomicon is the Pontifex/Solitaire Algorithm explained on? --Anonymous

Isn't it in an appendix? --— Matt Crypto 12:53, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Correct- it is also explained more informally in the text, when Waterhouse is imprisoned in a Phillipine prison, and there is also provided a functioning Perl script which a reader could work out the details. -- Maru Dubshinki 06:31 PM Monday, 14 March 2005

[edit] Citing

What is the source for the comment that Neal Stephenson thought the Necronomicon was first mentioned in Evil Dead? I am skeptical. --Ubermonkey 21:28, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

According to the Cryptonomicon FAQ, Stephenson didn't get the name from Evil Dead, but rather made it up whole cloth, with possibly some subconscious influence from the Cyphernomicon. Since the Evil Dead assertion is not cited, and the other is, I've search-and-replaced. -- Maru Dubshinki 07:10 PM Monday, 14 March 2005

[edit] Steganographically hide code?

So a recent revision claims that the numerous typos scattered throughout actuall constitute a code. I am skeptical, since such a code could very easily be messed up by the inevitable unintended typos, and since I've never heard it before, and since googling extensively shows nothing, and since there is no sourcing for this claim. I am removing it. -- Maru Dubshinki 12:10 AM Saturday, 19 March 2005

I am rather surprised your "googling extensively" turned up nothing, because I was able to find multiple references to this on the Internet with the most minimal Google searching. The original text by User:68.55.87.96 read:

Many readers have noted a large number of seeming typographical errors, but these are not, in fact, errors. The typos are the ciphertext of a plaintext that Stephenson has embedded in the novel.

I have rewritten this to:

The original hardcover edition of Cryptonomicon had numerous typos, and there has been widespread speculation that these typos were deliberate and constitute a steganographically hidden code.

as well as provided three citations. —Lowellian (talk) 12:13, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

My search was for "cryptonomicon steganographic typos" or variants thereof, which don't turn up those needles within a haystack. I am still skeptical, since one of those cites claims Stephenson disavowed putting in a code... but as long as it is cited, and characterized properly, I have no grief with such a section. --Maru 17:49, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dan Brown reference

" Dan Brown's Digital Fortress is confirmed to have a hidden code" - per the link, there is a cipher, but it's not hidden

[edit] Sealand vs Brunei vs Kinakuta

I removed the claim that Kinakuta resembles Sealand in international status as, well, it doesn't. Kinakuta is fairly similiar to Brunei, which is an independent state with diplomatic relations and all the stuff which goes along with being a fully-fledged country - you know, membership of the UN and other international treaty bodies. Kinakuta's international status is similiar to Brunei's - it's universally recognised as a sovereign nation - unlike Sealand, which isn't. -- Mpk 09:53, 20 August 2005 (UTC) And it's mentioned in the book that Kinakuta Sultan is Brunei Sultan's cousin

[edit] Necronomicon?

Okay, in one paragraph it says that the title is a reference to Necronomicon and in the next paragraph it said that he didn't know about Necronomicon when he made the title? How can you reference something you don't even know about? That doesn't make any sense! -- Masterzora 06:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Because of Cryptomnesia, a disturbingly coincidental word in this case. ;) -Quiddity 17:50, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "I don't want to hear the lizard story, Sergeant!"

Should we mention the similarity between Shaftoe's vision of a man-eating lizard at Guadalcanal and the real-life legend of man-eating crocodiles at the Battle of Ramree Island? Is the similarity coincidental? --Hoziron 07:17, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't put it past Stephenson; and it is interesting in its own right. --maru (talk) contribs 07:24, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm thinking Shaftoe's lizard is more likely a Komodo_dragon, native to that general part of the world.

[edit] Charlene and Rabbi Kahn

I added Charlene into the modern-day list of characters. I can't recall her last name and I'm not going to read through the whole thing again for the sake of Wikipedia. Anybody know it, or know if it's even mentioned?

I'm also wondering if Rabbi Kahn should be added. He's just a minor character in this book, but I'm almost absolutely sure that he's the same character as Solomon Kohan in The Baroque Cycle. (Interesting since he's the one that proposes the message which would kill Root and Shaftoe.) Can anyone confirm this or am I way out in left field on this one? Wyatt Riot 14:17, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fictional books category

I removed the "fictional books" category, because the article placed into the category is about the real book and not the fictional book described inside it. At first I thought the category was added because someone didn't understand what "fictional book" meant, but now I understand what happened. I still see the categorization as incorrect, and believe it would only be correct if used in a separate article about the fictional book, like the article about Necronomicon. The article The Dunwich Horror, in which The Necronomicon appears, does not itself go into the fictional books category. However, if someone feels strongly the other way, go ahead and put it back. Phr (talk) 22:52, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misleading article to say the least.

"Several pages are spent explaining in detail some of the concepts behind cryptography"

I must have missed that part. Stephenson doesn't even seem to understand the difference between symmetric and asymmetric cryptography. At one point he talks about using a key and a function to "automatically generate a one-time pad". If it can be generated simply by running a short key through an algorithm, then it's not a one-time pad.

"Stephenson includes a precise description of (and indeed a Perl script for) the Solitaire cipher"

The only "precise description" in the book was actually written by Bruce Schneider (in fact, it's the only real information about a crypto algorithm in the entire book). Stephenson simply makes one of his characters repeat it.

"some highly technical and detailed descriptions of modern cryptography"

Again, I must have missed that. He doesn't even describe old cryptography in any detail.

"subjects ranging from prime numbers and modular arithmetic"

He mentions the terms "prime numbers" and "modulo" a few times. That's about the extent to which those "subjects" are covered. Nothing that people with the 7th grade won't already know, if they paid any attention during maths classes.

Then there's the ridiculous "digital signal waveform" that rises and falls vertically, the hard drive getting erased by an undetectable magnet embedded in a door (to be able to erase a hard drive from that far away, it would have to be insanely powerful, and therefore very noticeable) plus several other technical impossibilities and misconceptions.

Which are fine, since this is a work of fiction. But that's not the impression that this Wiki article gives.

Cryptonomicon is a reasonably entertaining war thriller. A "highly technical" (or even accurate) book about cryptanalysis it is not. Also, it does not "follow the exploits of World War II-era cryptographers", contrary to what the first sentence states. It follows the adventures of one cryptanalyst (plus a few soldiers and a priest), whose job consists mainly of preventing the Axis powers from realising their codes have already been broken, not breaking them.

The only chapter that promises to reveal something about WWII cryptanalysis (before Lawrence leaves for Qwghlm) ends abruptly before any actual information is given about it. The next chapter picks up weeks or months later. Even when Randy finally decrypts the infamous "Arethusa" cypher, there is absolutely no mention of the techniques used, or the cypher's properties, apart from "has something to do with zeta functions". Stephenson can spend 10 pages describing how one character eats breakfast cereal, but all the cryptanalysis is either glossed over or happens between chapters (i.e., no description at all).

What this Wiki article does is create false expectations for geeks (who will be disappointed by the lack of depth and basic errors in the book), and cause undue aprehension to "normal" readers, who will think this is a very complex and technical book, when in fact it's just your average Tom Clancy-style war thriller with some technical terms randomly sprinkled on top.

RMN 00:08, 11 November 2006 (UTC)