Talk:Criminon
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[edit] Series Template
Removing this Series Template. This is not correct usage of Series Templates per the guidelines. They were set up to show the history of countries and were different articles form a sequential series. This is not the case with the Scientology pages, which are random pages on different topics – not a sequence of any kind. Wiki’s definition of a series is: “In a general sense, a series is a related set of things that occur one after the other (in a succession) or are otherwise connected one after the other (in a sequence).” Nuview 02:05, 10 January 2006 (PST)
[edit] That introduction states a completely false information
it says: "Criminon is an element of the Scientology movement directed at rehabilitating prisoners, in particular those with mental illnesses." But going to the Criminon website, the main thing mentioned is not about "mental illnesses" but about drugs. Where does that other, unsupported, uncited information about "in particular those with mental illnesses" come from? There's not only no cite for that, but particularly, the Criminon site states otherwise. Terryeo 09:47, 25 January 2006 (UTC) Oh, I see, it was placed in there from the beginning. Well, I'll remove that uncited bit. If there is discussion on it, we can put it back. Terryeo 09:50, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
- It is totally false and so was the article in the LA Times that made this up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.60.153.202 (talk • contribs) .
[edit] Urban report and FASE
I couldn't find that report on the urban.org site. I'd prefer a direct link rather than a copy on Criminon's site. As well, FASE is not a disinterested third-party. It seems exist only in a tight circle of scientologist organizations that share many of the same people, and publish approvals of each other. AndroidCat 23:06, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
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- FASE is a Scientology front group: Boston Herald 3/5/98 And more importantly, when the state of Utah found out Criminon/Narconon's ties to Scientology, they dropped them like a hot potato. [1] wikipediatrix 23:39, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] NPOV
Just a quick question regarding the introduction of this article. The program has used correspondence materials to treat hundreds of prisoners at the high security California State Prison, Corcoran, beginning in 1990[3]. Now, my enlgish may be a bit off, I'm not a native speaker and all, but to me that sentence implies that the program has actually suceeded in its atempts to... cure these prisoners. Is there any evidence supporting this? 62.231.141.214
[edit] Find Out for Yourself
All of my research points to this being a very promising program. Countries around the world have implemented the program and are sticking with it.
I was able to find the following website, which contains a link to a study which was done in the Honduras:
http://www.able.org/about/studies-white-papers.php?specific=criminon&lb=/programs/criminon
Additionally, I understand that in the states, the Urban Institute is in the process of conducting an unbiased, scientific study of the Criminon program and will be releasing their findings in 2007 or thereabouts. How about we let the unbiased experts decide on this one, since they're already working on doing so?
And if you really want to see a "cult" of sorts, witness the volume of websites devoted to attacking Scientology with no real hard data to back them up. These people have obviously spent a *lot* of time and energy attacking this group, with the seeming intention of protecting people from it - if nothing else, that sure doesn't give people a whole lot of credit for being able to look and figure things out for themselves. It's really a shame since we live in a society where quite a few people are deterred from actually looking at something new for themselves if they sense a potential for drama or for being ostracized in any way as a result. I'm curious to learn the true intentions of the anti- campaign. In the meantime, I'm going to continue to help people who wpend their time trying to make the world a better place. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.251.122.29 (talk • contribs) .
- Well, if your "research" didn't turn up the fact that www.able.org belongs to The Association for Better Living and Education, which oversees Criminon, Narconon, Applied Scholastics and The Way To Happiness Foundation, then your research was very incomplete. Hardly "unbiased experts", mmmm?
- As for what you refer to as people "attacking Scientology with no real hard data to back them up" -- what do you define as "real hard data"? It seems to me that since we are talking about the issue of crime, that maybe the conviction of eleven Church of Scientology leaders for the single largest infiltration of the United States government in history is real hard data. Or perhaps we could look at possibly the largest Ponzi scheme in history. Now, you might say "Well, just because some Scientologists, up to and including Mary Sue Hubbard, have committed not just crimes but breath-taking, record-breaking crimes, doesn't prove that Scientology doesn't have the technology to reform criminals." I can't agree with that, but I agree that one might say that, and one might even believe it. But how can you view it as irrelevant? You talk about being "curious to learn the true intentions" of those who exhibit skepticism about Scientology -- as if Scientology had never given anyone reason for skepticism. Federal conviction is reason for skepticism, believe me.
- Frankly, the burden of proof is exactly the opposite of where the Scientologists would like it to be. The Scientologists say "oh, we have all these great theories about what causes crime! (Namely, we think it's psychiatry.) We should be allowed into prisons, to teach our ideas to the prisoners!" Do you think that "we have some theories!" is sufficient reason that they should be let in? Do you think the Aryan Nations should be allowed to send their representatives into prison, to teach the prisoners their ideas about who's behind all the crime in the world? No? Then please explain why Scientology should get different treatment, without having earned it. -- Antaeus Feldspar 22:31, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
- I'm still perplexed why 24.251.122.29 would remove the Second Chance link from the page. They clearly state that they're licensing Criminon's program, and have been actively promoting it in states like Arizona. Any reason not to mention them 24.251.122.29? AndroidCat 00:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
