Talk:Cradle of Liberty Council

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Scouting Wiki Project Cradle of Liberty Council is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Billy Penn, Our Founder Cradle of Liberty Council is part of the WikiProject Philadelphia, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Philadelphia and the Delaware Valley on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Cradle of Liberty Council is part of WikiProject Pennsylvania, which is building a comprehensive and detailed guide to Pennsylvania on Wikipedia. To participate, you can edit the attached article, join or discuss the project.
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Contents

[edit] Camp articles, and why they should stay separate

The following discussions are an archived debate. Please do not modify it.

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

[edit] Merge tags

I have added merge tags to the two council camp articles, as per the Rules and Standards of the Scouting WikiProject. -- CampMinsi 06:49, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Looking at the history here, it's very clear that CampMinsi is violating the fourth point of the Scout Law by tagging the camp articles of another council because of Kintetsubuffalo's merger of Camp Minsi. I know that Kintetsubuffalo is WP:AGF, but I believe that instead of merging camp articles, they should be expanded and defended. --evrik 00:18, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
I was asked for an independent opinion on these articles. I am not a scout, and have only lived in PA for a few years, but in reading through these articles, I would endorse the comments to keep them independent and not merge them. They are OK as stand alone articles, and for a reader who is not familiar with these organizations, the separate articles are fine. Scott Mingus 01:48, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Resica Falls Scout Reservation merge

  • agree to Resica merge-as per the standard which was set and agreed upon early in 2006. The only reasonable exceptions to established policy would be if a camp had a significance beyond the local region-i.e. a camp where a National or World Jamboree was held, or a longstanding national program available to the bulk of Scouts was created there, or similarly significant outside of its vicinity. So the first Scout camp on Mars, or the camp where President Schwarzenegger reaches peace between North and South Koreas, would be good candidates for stand alone articles. Chris 17:31, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Disagree I disagree with the policy (as Chris knows.
  1. I think that the article is substantial enough to stand on its own.
  2. This article was also featured on Did you know.
  3. As a member of WikiProject Pennsylvania and WikiProject Philadelphia I think these articles should all remain separate. --evrik 00:18, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
  4. Finally, the Cradle of Liberty Council article would be cluttered by this merger. --evrik 00:18, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
The policy exists (as you acknowledge above), and has for over half a year. That you disagree does not give you the right to revert merges. I have established policy behind me on this, and the Scouting project facilitator has acknowledged that camps are sub-council entities and so fall under the policy. Chris 00:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
  • The policy is shortsighted, wrong and against the wiki spirit. If more than three people cared about it, maybe we could change it. --evrik 00:50, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Way more than three people voted for it back in February. You win some, you lose some. Chris 01:25, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Comment. This is a cross-project discussion. Recall, WP:CCC. This violates that, which says consensus can change. It formerly was called No Binding Decisions. If two WikiProjects have dissenting conventions, perhaps it should come up for some kind of vote? Personally, I am opposed to merging these articles, as they both have substance to them. --myselfalso 01:44, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Oppose merger as per myselfalso above. Squamate 02:25, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Agree to merge Dddstone 12:05, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Treasure Island (Scout reservation) merge

The following discussions are an archived debate. Please do not modify it.

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

  • disagree to TI merge-Of sub-national camps, thus far only Treasure Island meets the standard above, (as it is the home of the Order of the Arrow) while Resica does not. Chris 17:31, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Disagree' with merge. --evrik 00:18, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose merge. Squamate 02:31, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose both mergers. As a member of WikiProject Pennsylvania, I wish to point out that WikiProject Scouting does NOT have the right to subvert our primary stated goal, of raising all our articles to FA status. If you think your arbitrary and capricious rules are more important than the overall goals of WikiPedia, perhaps the discussion shouldn't be about merging these pages, but about deleting WikiProject:Scouting. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 08:03, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose, meets even the Scouting project's guidlelines for notability as the home of the Order of the Arrow and one of the oldest Scout camps in the USA. Ruhrfisch 02:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose merge, meets standards Dddstone 12:05, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia policies on content acceptability

Wikipedia content policy

1. Articles should contain only material that has been published by reputable sources.
2. Editors adding new material to an article should cite a reputable source, or it may be challenged or removed by any editor.
3. The obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it.

Information on Wikipedia must be reliable and verifiable. Facts, viewpoints, theories, and arguments may only be included in articles if they have already been published by reliable and reputable sources. Articles should cite these sources whenever possible. Any unsourced material may be challenged and removed.

The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader must be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, because Wikipedia does not publish original thought or original research.

For further information, visit Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No Original Research and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Thank you for helping make Wikipedia the most reliable encyclopedia on earth!

Please help bring this article into compliance. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 08:24, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Can someone tell me why this placed on this article? --evrik 13:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Yes, someone can. This article doesn't meet Wikipedia standards for acceptable content.
    • For instance, the first paragraph. The only citation is an article that says the city of Philadelphia is evicting the scouts because they won't stop discriminating. Nothing there to say that the council was formed in 1996, nothing there to say that CLC was formed by merging the Philadelphia and Valley Forge Councils, nothing to say that it's the largest council in Pennsylvania, and third-largest in the BSA.
    • The next three sections, consisting of history, scout camps, and order of the arrow, have no cites whatsoever to back up what is being said.
    • WIKIPEDIA IS NOT GEOCITIES. You can't just write whatever you please; if it hasn't been published by another reliable source, it has no place in Wikipedia.
    • This article needs to be trustworthy. It needs to obey Wikipedia policies. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 18:11, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Wow, are you this always this polite? Anyway, at least we now know what you were speaking about ... --evrik 18:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notes

It appears that all of the Philly.com references have 404ed. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

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