Talk:Cosmetics
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[edit] History
About the Victoria quote; Was make-up as widespread among the upper classes in England as it was in Western Europe? Had it fallen out of fashion by the time? David
Maybe we could also work on a more detailed historical comment, for example on the question of the use of cosmetics in history by both men and women (it's not as if men wearing make-up was a new thing, or any indicator of sexual orientation either, and both attitudes strike me as extremely silly). However, I lack on this field, and all I have is a few comments from an old recipe book. David
I'll try to find more info on history of makeup and add it in. I'm also going to change the intro a bit to emphasize the difference between "cosmetics"(general category)and "make-up" (specific category using colorants)i.e., all make-ups are cosmetics, but not all cosmetics are make-up. This will wind up being a long article, as I'm going to expand the ingredients section extensively.BobZBobzchemist 13:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC) hjyfgh this article seems to have an anti-makeup slant
[edit] Removed
I removed the paragraphed half of this sentence:
- "Foundation is worn to present the (idealized) appearance of the smooth, unblemished skin of youth ( However, it has been discovered that over time, foundation often ends up enhancing "fine lines and wrinkles" on the face, so that when the user takes the foundation off, they end up looking much older than their actual age)."
It seemed to be purposely anti-makeup and the writing itself was very opionated and/or sloppy ("looking MUCH older ", "often ends up"). I also removed unneccessary adjectives throughout the article. : ) I felt like reporting the fun.
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ That is somebody else's comments. Someone removed "Therefore, purchasers of mascara should consider buying only the smaller sized containers of mascara to force the purchaser to buy new mascara more often." [ 10:41, 2 September 2006 Shannernanner (Talk | contribs) (→Potential dangers - minor edits, removed POV sentence, tags) ] Claiming it was POV. It is not. It is eye-savibg, well-known advice for people who use mascara, but not often followed. Hence adding it here does a service. I suggest someone add it back in. --SafeLibraries 14:05, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Youthfulness
- "The role of modern cosmetics is to simulate youthfulness... mascara (used to enhance the eyelashes, larger eyes compared to face is a sign of youth)"
- - I don't think this is accurate. I know several teenage girls who wear make-up in order to make themselves look older. And I've never thought that it makes older women look younger. If no one objects, I'll delete this part.Palefire 22:37, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
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- Works both ways. - Omegatron 20:57, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
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- I think that this is almost completely accurate - the primary goal for makeup is to make the wearer more attractive. For most women that involves simulating the appearance of health and youth. Foundation is worn to present the (idealized) appearance of the smooth, unblemished skin of youth. Eyeshadow, eyeliner, and mascara is worn to make the eyes appear larger, and thus more youthful. Blush is worn to mimic the appearance of young skin flushed after exercise. Lipstick makes lips look larger, hides imperfections, and can make lips look more like the lips of a younger person, with thinner skin.
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- Oddly enough, teenage girls can often wear makeup skillfully enough to make them look just like older women trying to look like teenagers. Go figure. - Bobzchemist 9:57, October 7, 2005
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[edit] Industry numbers
"The cosmetics industry, as of 2003, is dominated by a small number of multinationals, all with their origins in the early 20th century. If the market is extended to include cometic surgery, health & fitness and dieting it is worth $160 billion every year, specifically cosmetics - perfume is $15 billion, make-up is $18 billion, skin care is $24 billion and hair-care is $38 billion."
That second sentence is extremely difficult to parse, cites no sources, and is likely to be out of date, what with fluctuating markets, inflation, and other factors. And the relevance of this information is dubious at best. Plastic surgery, fitness, and dieting have little to do with makeup. I'm going to delete the second sentence. Pat Berry 00:09, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Removed Link
I removed this link
- Beauty because I've tried it several times in the past few days and it does not respond. - Carax 4 Apr 2005
[edit] Sections
This article needs to be broken up into sections. - Omegatron 20:57, May 9, 2005 (UTC)
- I've done this, although I don't claim I've sectionized it in the best manner. If anyone else wants to take a crack at it, that's fine with me. JYolkowski // talk 18:41, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Statistical approach
Is there any research made to find out how the use of eyeliners, or other kinds of cosmetics enhance "beauty"?
(Well, some people think they look bad without cosmetics. Everyone is normally using cosmetics to some extent. So, there hypothetically exists a statistical distribution:
Let's take set of people who use cosmetics and photograph them with their cosmetics. Then let's wash them and photograph them without cosmetics. And let's compare these photos. E.g., let's give these photos for people to review on several basis. For example, "is she or he nicer with or without cosmetics", or "is he or she attractive or not" (something like hot or not)... So we could estimate the effectiveness of normal usage of cosmetics.) zack prest was here
[edit] significance
[edit] Make-up amongst men
It may be a detail, but worth mentioning that in the latest years make-up for men is beginning to get widely accepted in western countries (and is finally losing its incorrect "homosexuals only" label) ; a few cosmetics producents are beginning to try to launch make-up products especially for men. It is not very common yet, though it is definitely rising.
- ye, agreed. btw, why is this article so short?
[edit] Stage Make-Up
Aren't theatrical cosmetics relevant to this page, if not indeed, warranting a separate article? As I have little knowledge of the subject (that was why I was looking it up in the first place) I feel ill qualified to attempt to write such a section.
- I arrived at this page having followed a link from Stagecraft and feel that a separate page on theatrical make-up would be appropriate. In my view there is only a superficial connection between stage make-up and cosmetics as discussed in this article; each serves an almost wholly different purpose. Coconino 21:13, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Article improvement drive
I have nominated this article at Wikipedia:Article Improvement Drive#Cosmetics -- if you'd like to see this article become the focus of many editors for a week, please go add your support and reasoning there. — Catherine\talk 07:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] AID update, and re-edit
Unfortunately, it seems this article didn't make it to the AID. Shame. This is an important subject, and a total disgrace as an article: full of unsourced statements, weasel words, POV, essay-style writing, advertorial, and irrelevant information. What this article should be is a clear, unbiased, well-structured introduction to the subject of cosmetics.
I've been through on a re-edit, although I haven't gone anything like far enough. Here are some explanations for my decisions and recommendations:
- I've removed all references to Lip-Ink, which appeared to be advertorial. Product is not a major part of the cosmetic industry and adding sentences like "Small independents, like semi-permanent cosmetics company Lip-Ink International, have attempted to break into the cosmetics market with unique products, but are largely shut out of the major retail outlets" does not make the company more relevant and are profoundly biased.
- The rant about mineral cosmetics seemed to be irrelevant to an overview of the subject, and was strongly POV. I have removed it. If you think it is relevant, I suggest a separate article on mineral cosmetics, and a thorough reading of Wikipedia's NPOV policy.
- Much of the material on cosmetic ingredients was unsourced or badly sourced, one-sided, and completely out of context. I removed some of the worst offenders but there is more to be done. It can't just be a list of "Oh, and another bad thing! And another bad thing!" Please create a separate article on "Cosmetic ingredients" if you want to go into this sort of detail, and link to it from here.
- My main recommendation is that each of these sections be looked at again and written as a coherent article. At the moment, each is a collection of miscellaneous facts and trivia strung together with no real structure or sense of what might be appropriate in an encyclopedia.
- Separate articles should be created for the cosmetics industry, the history of cosmetics, cosmetic ingredients and so on. What appears on this page should be a general introduction to the subject, not tons of detail. For the moment, I've left things like the Abulcassis story in: this is really interesting and useful information, but it should be in a separate "history of cosmetics" article, I think.
I'll create these separate articles next week if there are no objections, and move some of this content into them. From that point, this article should be rewritten. -- TinaSparkle 13:40, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Animal Testing
An interesting Wikipedia entry but shouldn't there be a sub-section about animal testing of cosmetics or a link to such a page? 81.86.144.210 19:51, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
- It's a relevant issue, so yes - remembering NPOV policy, of course. -- TinaSparkle 17:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Separate History of Cosmetics article, & mooted WikiProject
I've created a separate article for the History of cosmetics and moved some of the information from here into it. I plan to expand it, but please do chip in.
I've also mooted a WikiProject on Cosmetics, if anyone's interested. Signing up involves no solid commitment, just a general interest and enthusiasm for the subject, from any angle. I really think it would help focus the improvement of cosmetics articles, including this one. Please see my userpage for details or sign up at Wikiprojects (scroll down to Cosmetics). Thanks! -- TinaSparkle 17:48, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] ACID tag?
It appears that the {{AIDnom}} tag is not currently correct. Is this article to be re-nominated soon or should the tag be removed? --AliceJMarkham 07:30, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
