Talk:Cornucopian
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[edit] Christian Cornucopian
This section reads like it was written by a child. 128.101.53.240 18:18, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Julian Simon?
Was it him or another economist that said 'who knows if the second law of thermodynamics will still hold in a hundred years'?
--Lee Wells 11:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
He was prone to making such scientifically ignorant remarks, so I wouldn't be surpised if he said that. He also said if we ran out of copper, we will simply turn iron into copper, or something equally as bizarre and unscientific as that. --Valwen 01:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Economics vs Physics
I have removed this paragraph:
- Frequently, cornucopians are economists, not physical scientists. For example, Simon once famously claimed[1] Earth would never run out of copper because humans would create it out of other elements, showing an apparent lack of understanding of the basics of chemistry. Despite this error, he correctly predicted an overall fall of precious metal prices worldwide.
Yes, you can't create copper out of other elements using chemistry, but it is - at least in principle - possible to do so using nuclear processes. I'm not for a moment suggesting that it will ever be possible to do this efficiently, but it is simply wrong to criticise Simon's "lack of understanding" of chemistry for his statement. Lacking an actual citation (I can only see the abstract), we don't know that he was talking about purely chemical means. And then, even if he was, his point is still coherent; regardless of whether he knew about nuclear manipulation, it's still possible. Again, I'm not saying that Simon was right in his argument that humans could manufacture copper as an acceptable replacement for 'natural' copper. I'm just saying that it's a stretch to say he didn't understand science based on this statement. --DudeGalea 08:28, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Then the sentence should be re-worded, not removed entirely. He made this claim. This is at the heart of his Cornucopian argument. I agree "showing an apparent lack of understanding" is perhaps not the most neutral POV. --Valwen 02:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
- The trouble is that I can't actually read the article that the citation is pointing to, so I can't check what he said. I can only read the abstract, which doesn't include any claims about copper. I have no idea if he was saying something totally physically ridiculous (like being able to make copper from other elements chemically), or if he was just speculating about what we might be able to do one day (like synthesizing copper using nuclear means). I have no bias one way or the other; I just have no idea what he said.
- It would be useful if we could find a citation that is generally readable. --DudeGalea 12:01, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
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- How about this quote? If this is not the Cornucopian sophistry in a nutshell, then what is? "The length of a one-inch line is finite in the sense that it is bounded at both ends. But the line within the endpoints contains an infinite number of points; these points cannot be counted, because they have no defined size. Therefore, the number of points in a one-inch segment [of a line] is not finite. Similarly, the quantity of copper that will ever by available to us is not finite, because there is no method (even in principle) of making an appropriate count of it..." (Julian Simon, The Ultimate Resource, Princeton, 1981, 47) --Valwen 05:27, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Simon a cornucopian?
I edited the phrase that declared Simon to be a cornucopian. He denies being a cornucopian theorist in his book 'The Ultimate Resource'.
Just because he denies it doesn't mean he is not the flag-bearer and most frequently-cited source for Cornucopian theorists. He is one and this needs to be corrected. --Valwen 01:59, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Change Planet to World
The opening sentence is thus **A cornucopian is someone who posits that there are few intractable natural limits to growth, and believes the planet can provide a practically limitless abundance of natural resources** , though a cornucopian view would be THE WORLD not THE PLANET, nobody denies that we may well have to go off planet to fulfill the cornucopian ideal. I have changed PLANET to WORLD.
