Talk:Copenhagen

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Personally I see no point in thumbnailing the main image in this article. It makes more of a visual impact, and is not overly large. Does anyone strenuously object to reinstating the large image?

Peregrine981 13:40, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I agree. --Stonor 14:17, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)
It was just way too large at 354px; the reccomended maximum is 300, made it a bit smaller. --Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 22:18, 2004 Jul 7 (UTC)

23:08, 21 Apr 2004 -- Guest User: Corrected the spelling of Crown Prince Frederik (was misspelled as 'Fredrik') and added the proper link

What's the point in adding Copenhagen's name in German and Faroese? - Kaare 15:42, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] from Romania

wots the name of mayor of Kopenhagen?

His name is Jens Kramer Mikkelsen. - Kaare 13:40, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
election soon to come
It is some time ago that the election took place. The mayor is currently former EU commissioner Ritt Bjerregaard, she is a Social Democrat and Copenhagen's first female mayor. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 21:41, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chinatown

I found out about Copenhagen's Chinatown from the Copenhagen Post - http://www.cphpost.dk/get/64197.html

However, I wasn't able to find much more information about Copenhagen's Chinatown beyond that newspaper article. How much has it grown? What are the streets? Any pictures?

Please make any additions or corrections to the existing Denmark section on Chinatowns in Europe as you see fit.

I live in the "Vesterbro" part of Copenhagen, and I have never heard about a Chinatown in Copenhagen before. But it's true that there is a very small area in the Colbjørnsensgade/Halmtorvet vicinity which has a number of Far Asian stores. I'll take a look and ask around and perhaps take a few photographs. TroelsArvin 00:32, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Lived in Copenhagen for 24 years, and have never heard the expression "China town". There is however, "Little somalia". A few stores just behind the Grand central station does not add up to a "town" IMO.
Agree with IMO. There are no China-town in Copenhagen. The citizens seems to be allergic to foreigners and a few shops is enought to create a name for it. By European comparison Denmark has very few foreing inhabitants and still they seems to discuss the "problem" more than in other countries with much larger immigrant population. Mads
No Chinatown in Copenhagen (yet), the largest minority is Arabs and Swedes --80.196.107.246 17:56, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Copenhagen Post is notoriously unreliable and is primarily for the benefit of tourists. For a while, part of Vesterbro was called "Little Istanbul", but I haven't heard the term in a few years. I've never heard of a "Chinatown" in Copenhagen.
In all my years in Copenhagen, I was yet to encounter this mysterious Chinatown. Sorry. I don't think is exists. Dushkin 23:48, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] German?

The article states that the namen derives from the German name, is that just a wild conjecture or is there any real evidence for that? It could just as well be Dutch: Kopenhagen. Better actually, because merchant is koopman not Kaufmann. Low German maybe, high German, eh, no, then there would be an f. Lautverschiebung and such af:Gebruiker:Jcwf

I see what you mean. But I believe the article refers to Lower German. Dushkin 23:49, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronounciation in English

...but note that the 3rd syllable is pronounced "hay" in English, not "hah".

Really? I've always pronounced that syllable with a "hah" sound. Funnyhat 04:25, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

I say banana but you say banana. Potato - potato, tomato - tomato. Let's call the whole thing off.

Some say Copenhahgen and some say Copenhaygen - some of us say København.

I've lived here more than 20 years and have NEVER heard a Dane pronounce the English name in any way other than "Co-pen-HAY-gen." This is also the usage for all official mentions by the Danish government, SAS airlines, airport authority, etc. etc. "Co-pen-HAH-gen" is simply wrong, no matter how you might pronounce potato. AllanJ 15:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Popular media have an incredible effect on how Danes pronounce words in English, since it isn't an official language of Denmark. Copen-hah-gen is an equally valid pronunciation of the city [1], and in fact it's much closer to the German Kopen-hah-gen, which is where English got it from in the first place [2][3]. I've heard both pronunciations from Danes (and I'm a Dane, too), and in my opinion, saying "the way the Danes themselves pronounce the capital's name when saying it in English" is a very crude generalisation, which an encyclopedia should do without. Ghent 14:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
In any case, Danes' pronunciation are not an authority on how English words are or should be pronounced, even English words that happen to refer to things in or of Denmark. Henning Makholm 16:14, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Generally, linguists go with how the locals pronounce a word. If Danes -- and 99% of them and ALL official instances -- use CopenHAYgen, that's pretty much your only choice. No matter how much they are influenced by popular media (and, by the way, when has popular media EVER referred to Copenhagen?) It's not a big deal to me, but I see no problem telling people that's how most Danes pronounce it. AllanJ 18:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The problem is, as mentioned, that it is a general and unreferenced claim. It doesn't contribute anything to the article apart from making the intro very messy. I would like to see it go. Hestemand 10:39, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links

The external links section in this article is huge. Can someone who knows the subject check and trim the list? See Wikipedia:External links for criteria. Rl 13:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Currencies

The article says " It is still difficult to pay with either nation's currency in the other country, with the exceptions of Copenhagen and Malmö, where it's possible to use either DKK or SEK in a growing number of shops, restaurants, etc."

However, I disagree fairly strenuously. In my experience it is virtually impossible to pay with DKK or SEK in the other country, except in the most touristy of places, and here you will still get a bad exchange rate. Peregrine981 14:42, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

I've done it. It's possible. A very bad exchange rate though. (Made me pay 1:1) So at least I know it's possible. Also, some of the more touristy places accept Euro, I believe, but I haven't tried that just yet. Dushkin 23:52, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

You can pay with DKK in Sweden using 1:1, but in Copenhagen it's is easier to pay with euroes, and that is pretty hard. Carewolf 11:30, 13 November 2006

[edit] The city and the municipality

Copenhagen is much larger than the municipality of Copenhagen. In fact, compared with cities such as Stockholm, Malmö, Hamburg and Berlin, the municipality of Copenhagen comprises only of the very inner part of the city (The city has more than a million inhabitants, of these only 0,5 mio people live in the municipality). So, in a way Copenhagen is a city with a mayor who only by name is the mayor of "Copenhagen".

[edit] Definitions of Copenhagen and population figures

You use the term "Storkøbenhavn" (Greater Copenhagen) and translates it with "metropolitan Copenhagen". But actually there is no real definition of "Storkøbenhavn". But "Hovedstadsregionen" however is Copenhagen metropolitan area and a metropolitan area is not the same as an urban area. Also the population figure is wrong to reach a population of 1,116,979 citizens you would need to include all of Ballerup, Søllerød and Værløse municipalities but only parts of these are included in the urban area and the population of the urban area is 1,086,762 (2004). Danmarks Statistik use the term “hovedstadsområdet” for the urban area however often the term “hovedstadsområdet” is also a bit of a loose term as it is often defined the same way as “hovedstadsregionen” and that is as Copenhagen metropolitan area as I mentioned earlier. Danmarks Statistik’s definition of urban areas is stricter than e.g. the US definition of urban areas and cut off most of Copenhagen’s five “fingers”.

The table on the left is also wrong it says Copenhagen covers an area of 526 sq. km (528.26 according to Danmarks Statistik) but that's Copenhagen county and then you write the density of Copenhagen is 954/km² (but actually it’s 954.8 ~ 955) but to get that you need to divide the area of Copenhagen county (526 km²) with the population of Copenhagen municipality (502,204) and the population of Copenhagen municipality is 502,362 as of 2005 and 501,664 in 2004. I don't know where you get the number 502,204 from?


The population of Copenhagen municipality in 2004:

January 1st ................ 501,664

April 1st ..................... 502,012

July 1st ...................... 500,980

October 1st ................ 502,581

Copenhagen municipality is not even a part of Copenhagen county and you can't just divide the area of Copenhagen county with the population of Copenhagen municipality, it makes no sense at all? I see in the picture that Copenhagen county is marked with red and the population of Copenhagen county is 618,237 (2005) and it covers an area of 528.26 km².

So…

The density of Copenhagen municipality is 502,362/88.25 = 5,692.5.

The density of Copenhagen county is 618,237/528.26 =1,170.3


Also...the Øresund Region covers all of Zeland (not just the eastern part) Lolland-Falster and Bornholm and all of Scania (Skåne) county in Sweden. Otherwise you would not reach a population of 3.6 million.


Regards

Christian


I updated the demographics with 2005-01-01 data from Danmarks Statistik. For lack an easier better thing to do I put numbers for the "city" (i.e. the municipalitiy of Copenhagen) and "metropolitan area" (sum of the municipalites of Copenhagen and Frederiksberg and the amt of Copenhagen). I know the latter area includes some agricultural land at the outer end, but what to include in the count will always be a matter of judgement. Henning Makholm 17:32, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


For next update I propose to sum up the Københavns and Frederiksberg Kommune for the city population since Frederiksberg is fully enclosed by Københavns kommune. I also suspect the "urban" area should be Storkøbenhavn, and the metropolitan area the new Hovedstadsregion (Copenhagen Region). I am looking at various (semi)official numbers, and I think they translate the old HT region to the metropolitan area since most claim a population of 1.8million. So reducing it to the new smaller Copenhagen Region of 1.6m can't be completely wrong. Carewolf 12:37, 15 November 2006

[edit] Infobox substed from template

For some reason the infobox was a template Template:Copenhagen infobox rather than directly part of the article. No other articles were using the template (it would not make sense, either), so I substed its content into the article and will momentarily request deletion of the template. For recordkeeping, the revision history of the template follows. Henning Makholm 00:00, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

  • 2006-04-05 15:18:22 Henning Makholm m (Remove spurious break that messed up the formatting of Copenhagen)
  • 2006-01-11 21:44:57 Fred Bradstadt (Cleanup)
  • 2005-12-27 19:26:22 Henning Makholm (Update area (from SDE), population (from statistikbanken.dk))
  • 2005-12-27 04:03:59 Bobblewik m (AWB Assisted clean up)
  • 2005-09-15 15:21:49 Fawcett5 (remove broken image link. And why is there a template for an infobox used by only ONE article. This should be substed in and the template deleted!)
  • 2005-08-24 02:12:14 Valentinian (Resized image. Danish cities don't have their own flags.)
  • 2005-06-25 00:13:52 Thjorth m (Changed longitude W(est) to E(ast))
  • 2005-05-22 11:37:09 212.242.172.159
  • 2005-05-22 11:34:42 212.242.172.159
  • 2005-04-14 09:28:44 Kaare m (Inserted the correct map, i.e. the one actually highlighting the city...)
  • 2005-02-13 03:26:40 Icairns (fix link to square kilometre)
  • 2005-01-17 06:16:07 PZFUN

[edit] The largest city of Scandinavia?

An anonymous editor, 212.10.163.153 added the following paragraph to the article:

Though Stockholm together with Copenhagen, claims to be the largest city of Scandinavia, this claim is based on a much larger area in the case of Stockholm. When comparing the metropolitan regions of the two capitals, it is evident that the Capital region of Copenhagen covers a smaller area than that of Stockholm, while, at the same time containing more people. Thus Copenhagen is both larger and more densely populated than Stockholm. Measuring the size of cities is always difficult due to the many definitions concerning metropolitan areas, suburb etc. In this case it seems most reasonable to compare what is mentioned i Wikipedia as the Danish Capital Region and Metropolitan Stockholm.

Such arguments do not belong in the main article space, so I'm hereby moving it to talk. I also reverted the same editor's addition of "and in Scandinavia" to the intro paragraph. Given that the comparison is uncertain, I think the encyclopedically NPOV choice is to make no explicit claims about whether Copenhagen or Stockholm is larger. Henning Makholm 01:46, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Copenhagen IS the largest city of Scandinavia. Stockholm use almost 3 time as much area space, so they only slightly can claim they are larger populated. It's just a dirty PR trick.

Stockholm:

  • Population City: 765 044, 4091 inhabitants/km2, Area Size: 187 km2
  • Population Urban Area: 1 212 196, 3230 inhabitants/km2, Area Size: 375 km2
  • Population Metro Area: 1 872 900, 289 inhabitants/km2 Area Size: 6 490 km2

Copenhagen:

  • Population City: 502 362, 5709 inhabitants/km2, Area Size: 88 km2
  • Population Urban Area: 1 085 813. ?? inhabitants/km2, ?? Area Size:
  • Population Metro Area: 1 827 239, 638 inhabitants/km2, Area Size: 2 862 km2

--Comanche cph 23:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Comanche cph: There is no consensus for this change and you need to stop edit warring about it here and on Stockholm. You've been warned more than once about this. ++Lar: t/c 00:13, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
What is wrong? I just pointed out some facts to this article. Copenhagen as city is like twice as large as Stockholm. --Comanche cph 00:16, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey! Yes, this is first of all a cultural disagreement between Denmark and Sweden as well as "a dirty PR-trick" on Stockholm's part, and it's a mistake on wikipedia's part too. As Comache pointed out, Stockholm can NOT be concidered the largest city of Scandinavia, which the article on Stockholm sadly suggests taken from the blue and the fact that both cities counts population differently. Is wikipedia a forum for wrong information?/Arial

True. I think the easiest is to remove such claims since it always is about drawing new lines in the sand to look bigger. There was once a proposed European standard for measuring city size, but it is also quite unfair as it estimates Copenhagen to 3.5 million people (people within 1hours reach of the city). As I understand wikipedia we are not supposed to make new material as these Swedish moderators seem to do. Fact is: both Copenhagen and Stockholm _claims_ to be the biggest city in Scandinavia, now we can either write their claims on the pages or not, but starting to argue and do our own research (based on random population statistics) seems to be in conflict with wikipedia rules. Carewolf 12:45 15 November 2006
IF you have verifiable sources that there is a controversy about this, actual sources, feel free to add those to the article as footnotes or references but I'd not want to see this silly edit war break out again. It's just odd that two new users turn up here and at Stockholm at about the same time after many months of quiet. ++Lar: t/c 23:15, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean by verifiable sources? you already have the numbers! If you look at population in and around copenhagen and stockholm at any radius Copenhagen is larger. If you look at population of the administrative areas Stockholm is larger. It is a matter of taste and bias how you interpret that. I can only point at sources who interpret those numbers differently than you: The official tourist organization of Copenhagen: http://www.visitcopenhagen.dk/enwonen/facts_about_copenhagen.asp The official commercial promotion organization: http://www.copcap.com/composite-2466.htm http://www.copcap.com/composite-2461.htm Other various others: http://www.hostelworld.com/sampleitindetail.php?SampleItinNO=74 http://www.explore-copenhagen.com/ http://copenhagenoverview.infogami.com/

The completely neutral think to say would be that Copenhagen is the center of the largest urban area in Scandinavia and Stockholm is the largest municipal in Scandinavia.

I don't know Arial, but it is only natural to go from here to Talk:Stockholm since you redirect us from here to there. And I did not participate in any edit war, and do not intend to. Carewolf 16:34 17/11 2006

No, the completely neutral thing is to not even try to make such silly comparisons in the article. Also, none of your links appear to substantiate the claim that Lar wanted sourced, namely the existence of a controversy about whether Copenhagen or Stockholm is the "largest". Henning Makholm 17:53, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Henning has it right. if there is an actual documented controversy reported somewhere about this, report that. Else I would say drop it, there's nothing to this issue and it would be a silly edit war. Thanks. ++Lar: t/c 18:43, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Te controversy is city size definition. There is extensive coverage of this on wikipedia Urban area Metropolitan area. Eurostat is doing an audit of European cities to get better numbers but have not yet covered Scandinavia Largest cities and metropolitan_areas in the European Union (Eurostat), but others have World Urban Areas[4] and Largest urban areas of the European Union. The conclusion of the standardized measurements is very clear. The urban area of Copenhagen is larger than that Stockholm, but only by a few 100.000. An unsurprising conclusion if you had looked at the population density numbers. Unfortunately we don't have the measurement of the standardized City Area and Larger Urban Zones for the two cities yet.

[edit] Culture

From this article, it sounds like there is nothing to do there unless you are lesbean or gay... kind of strange twist of understanding the word "culture".

I disagree. The article has one paragraph about gay life and five about other culture; also, it has two sub-sections about sports and the cuisine (the latter one could stamp gay, if one wants to). In my own opinion, gay life should be expanded further, as the city does have a very active gay scene; however, there are other, much more prominent biases/unsourced statements in the article that should be addressed first. Ghent 23:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Fair eough, but I also agree that it could also do with a bit more info on theatres, opera houses, clubs, parks, museums, art galleries/collections, concert halls, architecture, sights and attractions. Daen 23:55, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I have found this Copenhagen a little better. I do not see a direct connection between culture and sex orientation, in other words I really do not care about one sexual preferences and so do not consider them as cultural heritage. I am going to Scandinavia next week to see something new, straights, gays and lesbians I see everyday here, in Cambridge Massachusetts and could not care less about their private lives.
I think any culture is based on religion, I think one should have difficulties to understand any cultural artifact without knowledge of Bible (for Europe, at least) and history.
I do not consider cuisine, sports, gays, straights and lesbians as a cultural attributes of a geographic location.

If you found the Wikitravel article better, it is because you're seeking information on Copenhagen for tourist purposes, and not encyclopedic information like that on Wikipedia.
If you look up culture on dictionary.com, it says that culture is: "The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought". As far as I know, sports, the cuisine, as well as sexual behaviour patterns are all covered by that definition; they are products of human work and thought, and they are what are associated socially with Copenhagen.
I could happily agree that the article might need even more information on other kinds of culture; the information already there is perfectly valid, however. I hope that you will enjoy your trip here. Ghent 10:46, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Daen that it needs more information about theatres, opera houses, clubs, parks, museums, art galleries/collections, concert halls, architecture, sights and attractions. Not mentioning Tivoli Gardens, Copenhagen is a crime. --Maitch 10:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm disappointed that such a great city doesn't have a better article. The culture of Copenhagen is so unique, I love the city for it's culture, architecture and overall feeling. Defenitively the capital city of Scandinavia. Greetings from Gothenburg! --Krm500 22:24, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

The culture section looks like something ripped straight out of a tourist leaflet. - JHL

[edit] New category for the nordic/scandinavian capitals?

I would like to suggest a new category for the capital cities of Scandinavia/the Nordic, including Copenhagen, Helsinki, Oslo, Reykjavik and Stockholm. (I've posted this message on the talk page for each city.) Comments, anyone? /M.O (u) (t) 15:22, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Improving layout

I would propose that the moderator of this page, improves the lay-out of the page. Comparing the Copenhagen-wiki with wikis of other capitols (Stockholm, Paris and even a city as Aarhus), I personally think it has somewhat of a boring appearance. Put in some more pictures of the city and its sights - especially aerial photos, photos from Strøget, the town hall square and perhaps of the mayor would be great. Furthermore give a more comprehensive description of the city's history, its importance for this part of Europe and its delevopment. A wiki about Copenhagen should of course not be a commercial, but it shoould be considered that many people from outside of Denmark get their first impression of the city, checking this Wiki.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.238.26.107 (talk • contribs) 2006-11-25T17:08:12 (UTC)

You seem to have some things backwards. A Wikipedia article has no "moderator", no owner, and no editor-in-chief. If you have ideas for improving the article, just be bold and carry them out. Just be sure that what you add fits at least approximately with our three core content policies of verifiability, a neutral point of view and no original research. Don't worry if you don't hit them absolutely straight the first time - others will correct your text soon enough if it reads wrongly. Henning Makholm 16:23, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Economy

where is this section? is anybody working in Copenhagen? ...

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