Talk:Constantin Carathéodory

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Contents 1 Alledged letters need substantiation 2 Neutralization needed? 3 Online photographic archives 3.1 www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk 3.2 www.karatheodori.gr

[edit] Alledged letters need substantiation

On December 30, 2005, an anonymous editor added the following to the article:

On December 19, 2005 Israeli officials along with Israel' ambassador to Athens, Ram Aviram presented to the Greek foreign ministry with copies of 10 letters between Albert Einstein and Constantin Carathéodory [Karatheodoris] that suggest that the work of Carathéodory help shape some of Albert Einstein's theories. The letters were part of a long correspondence which lasted from 1916 to 1930. Aviram said that according to experts at the National Archives of Israel - custodians of the original letters - the mathematical side of Einstein's physics theory was partly substantiated through the work of Carathéodory, Aviram said.

I find this to be out-of-character with the rest of this article, and suspect a hoax. It needs to be supported by a verifyable reference. (In fact this whole article needs to be properly sourced and those references documented, but I can give the rest of it the benefit of a doubt.) --EMS | Talk 06:40, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Try [1]. Why 'suspect a hoax' when this is the first Google hit? Scepticism is all very well, but this page gives a 1916 letter from E to C. I supposed Aviram isn't a great expert in GR, so his opinion might not be worth so much.Charles Matthews 10:54, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Not a hoax at all. It made the news world wide. Check out the article for AFP press Einstein's letters

~Mallaccaos 8 February 2006

It is factually corect that correspondence between Caratheodory and Einstein discussing various matters exists, but then again correspondence has been a stardard and valuable means of scientific dialog and cross-pollination of ideas. So, I also find this passage out of character. What did they discuss? It is vague and it does not convey anything more specific than "Hey! This guy used to talk with Einstein and helped shape his ideas! He used to play in the big league!" I happen to be Greek but I would rather see Caratheodory's axiomatization of thermodynamics in 1909 mentioned in this entry, rather than this kind of vague "factoids with implications".

212.251.111.60 16:13, 12 March 2006 (UTC)CogRusty

If this was not factual based it would have been stated as such. As it stand it was ==Israeli== officials who contacted Greek officials regarding these correspondences. Why would the Israeli government body, more specifically the National Archives of Israel - custodians of the original letters - whom I'm sure consulted their own scientists in this matter and more then probably looked over the corresondence carefully, say it was what they are saying it is, if it "wasn't"? ~Mallaccaos 30 March 2006

[edit] Neutralization needed?

The existence of the Einstein-Carathéodory correspondence seems to be established. I'd like to see more evidence that Aviram's apparent claim that Carathéodory deserves some credit for special relativity made "headlines worldwide" (I certainly never saw any of those headlines) and I'd like to know more about this Aviram. Who is he, what is his training background? Do any reputable historians of science give serious credence to the suggestion that Carathéodory deserves some credit for special relativity? Until such time as someone can supply reliable sources, I propose we tone down the claims in the article. ---CH 21:57, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, shoulda Googled Aviram. To answer my own question, it appears that he is the Israeli ambassador to Greece. This episode may well represent, not a significant new finding in the history of science, but some kind of political initiative by the ambassador. Given this, I definitely think we should tone down the description of this episode in the article until someone can clarify what this was all about. Someone did try to provide links to news items, but these links appear to be broken, so they should be replaced with valid links. ---CH 22:00, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Online photographic archives

I put the following images archives on display, with translations where applicable, for the convenience of any interested parties

[edit] www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk

2 Large portraits, 1 double large Greek stamp

• Sources info: None available on site
• Copyrights info: [2]

[edit] www.karatheodori.gr

1. Portraits from various periods and other photos (20 in total)
2. Family portraits and photos (22 in total)
3. 4 signed portraits dedicated to Caratheodory Greek general Plastiras, Archbishop Chrysostomos of Smyrna, Albert Einstein and Hilbert!
4. Places of interest Important places in the life of Caratheodory (19 total)]
5. Misc. photos 3 personal hand-writtings, 1 bust, 1 Greek stamp (5 total)
6. Photos from the International Congress "Constantin Caratheodory", Sept. 1-4, 2000 Vissa, Orestiada, Greece. Organisers and speakers from the congress including his daughter Despoina Caratheodory
7. 19th Hellenic Mathematical Education Symposium Hellenic Mathematical Society, 8-9-10 Nov. 2003, Komotini, Greece. Various images including his daughter Despoina Caratheodory (6 total)
8. Honorary function in memory of C. Caratheodory orginised by the educational institution 'Linardatos-Auguleas Present Mrs. Despina Caratheodory-Rodopoulos.
9. Construction of C.Caratheodory's statue Speech of (now former) Komitini's Mayor Mr. Vavatsiclis, Komotini, Greece (7 total)

• Sources info: None availabe on site,
• Copyrights info: None available on site,
• Contact info: Authors, committee and members of the Greek Union of Friends of C. Caratheodory, Development and maintenance of website.

I hope someone will find these interesting No31328 23:58, 22 October 2006 (UTC)