Talk:Console role-playing game

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Famicom style controller This article is part of WikiProject Computer and video games, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to video games on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Portal:CVG
 CVG Portal
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale.
High This article is on a subject of High priority within gaming for inclusion in Wikipedia 1.0.
CVG To-do:

Contents

[edit] Flagship RPG series

I recommend changing the series listed in the example line so that it only lists a few of the highest respected and most influential series, series that have quite a bit of history behind them and that represent some of the most important RPG companies & consoles. Not to speak negatively on any of the titles that are up there currently as I've enjoyed all of them to varying degrees, but it seems odd that series with only a few entries (or just 1 in the case of Legend of Dragoon!) or with entries that vary widely in quality are on the list, whereas more influential series are excluded. A short section with a sentence or two description of each series and why it's a worthy RPG flagship series might be a good addition as well.

My personal recommendations: Dragon Warrior & Final Fantasy - Beyond obvious. The two best selling and best known RPGs (aside from the next one on the list). Represents Square Enix.

Pokemon - Best selling CRPG of all time. Represents portable CRPGs and CRPGs aimed at younger audiences. Represents Nintendo.

Megami Tensei - Between the main series & its many spinoffs, there are around 30 RPGs here, most of very high quality. The flagship mature/dark/"not stereotypical fantasy/sci-fi" CRPG series. Represents Atlus.

Phantasy Star - An innovative early CRPG series that was later reborn as an online Action/RPG. Lots of games here (4 SMS/Genesis games, major remakes of the first two games, the 3 Phantasy Star Onlines, Phantasy Star Universe, the 2 Game Gear games, the Meganet games, various ports & collections, etc.). Represents Sega & their various systems (SMS, Genesis, Dreamcast).

Tales - The flagship example of introducing Action battles into otherwise typical RPGs. Represents Namco.

Ys - Represents Action/RPGs, PC/obscure consoles CRPGs, and harcore gamers well. Represents Nihon Falcom.

[edit] Zelda?

I've never considered the Legend of Zelda series RPGs. I thought it was the general consensus that it is an action/adventure game. What are everyone else's feelings on it? Cdwillis 07:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Same here. Anyone want to remove it? -- Solberg 20:02, 7 November 2006 (UTC)Solberg
I also agree, and have removed it from the list. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 20:05, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. In case it's not obvious to some bystanders, having stats is not sufficient to say a game is an RPG. As noted on another page, stats and skill systems have been extensively exported from the RPG genre to many other genres, particularly action and FPS. -- Solberg 20:08, 7 November 2006 (UTC)Solberg
Actually, I would guess that FPS didn't come about until long after RPGs. An interesting twist, however, is that one of the differences between action/adventure and RPG was the separate battle screen. However, Final Fantasy XII is clearly (IMHO) an RPG, but does not switch to a battle screen. I'm guessing definitions will evolve over time, but at present most RPGs allow you to form a party, often able to switch characters in and out, including the original character. An action/adventure is basically a single character that may have other characters in a "party", but the other characters are usually quite different. For that reason, I'm not sure that Kingdom Hearts is *really* an RPG, and if it wasn't created by Square, I'm guessing that most people would call it an action/adventure more than an RPG. wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 20:43, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't recall whether the FPS genre was created before the RPG genre but it doesn't make a difference either way. At some point, the RPG genre began exporting many features (mainly stats-based gameplay) to the FPS and action genres (Zelda, Deus Ex, System Shock, Oblivion, etc are all products of this). Whether the FPS genre was made first or second is not relevant. The separate battle screen is mainly a relic from Ultima III (essentially the ancestor of both computer and console RPGs) and a nice convenience because of classic consoles' insufficient memory to easily represent dynamic characters and battles on the original screen (Chrono Trigger was a delightful exception to some of the above comments though), and not really an RPG specific feature necessarily. In fact almost no computer RPGs (past or present) use the battle screen and increasingly few modern console RPGs use it as well. -- Solberg 03:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)Solberg

[edit] HP?

Does HP really stand for Hit Points? I always saw it referred to as Health Points... -- 138.246.7.97 20:29, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Both have been used before, but "hit points" is more common. I wikilinked the term to the definition pointing out synonyms. -- Solberg 19:48, 16 September 2006 (UTC)Solberg

[edit] Request

I request that someone please write a detail account of the story for Lunar:_Silver_Star_Story and Final_Fantasy_VII. Lunar SSS and FF7 are classic RPGs, but their story section is highly summarized. For an example of a detail account of the story, section, please look at FF6.

In the story section of Final_Fantasy_VI, a lot of details are given, such as Kefka poisoning the water supply in the siege of Doma Castle, Terra unable to accept herself being a half-esper, the balance of the world is destroyed, etc. However in the summarized FF7 story section, nothing is mentioned about the death of Aeris in the hands of Sephiroth, Meteor threat, Tifa helping Cloud overcoming his psychological problem, etc.

Request: If anyone have free time and can write a good article, please spend some time writing a more detail story for Lunar SSS and FF7.

[edit] Rewrite

I'll be re-writing this over the next few days. There seems to be some RPGers on Wikipedia who are intent on killing any information on cRPGs and CRPGs. This needs to be more informative and pictureful. ~~VincentVivi, 07:55, 20 June 2006

[edit] Comment

The original author of this article presents cRPG in a negative tone, as if these central elements that define the game are somehow lesser than that of computer role-playing game. Readers may resent this as the reason they play cRPG games is for its simpler and more entertaining gameplay than that of the often extremely involved and complex nature of computer role-playing game. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.39.61.68 (talk • contribs) 21:23, 19 June 2006.

Agreed. Removed most of the POV and harshness that I can see. Comment on other stuff that may be too over the top. -- Solberg 06:56, 12 July 2006 (UTC)Solberg

This is stupid. "More entertaining gameplay" is just as POV as your criticism. In fact, the entire article fails to mentioned the cRPGs aren't RPGs at all. RPGs are defined as Role Playing Games, where you play a role. cRPGs are not RPGs in any sense of the word. You play a predetermined character, and have few, if any, choices on how to solve quests or develope your characters. The story is completely linear. If anything, cRPGs are closer to Adventure games, than actual role playing games. This should be added to the article.

"More entertaining gameplay" is indeed POV, but that's not in the article, just someone's comment on the talk page. The idea that console RPGs are not RPGs is already mentioned in the Criticism section. Opinions can be mentioned in Wikipedia articles, but they must be stated fairly and the article should not appear to take a side. With this stipulation, feel free to add to the article. -- Solberg 11:10, 12 November 2006 (UTC)Solberg

[edit] Major changes

I have made several major changes to this page, the computer role-playing games page, and will soon create a new page. Voice dissent and assent, I will reply within a day. Overall, I believe the changes are good though. -- Solberg 04:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)Solberg

Hi. First of all, I would recommend you place {{inuse}} at the top of the page while you're editing a page for a long time to avoid direct edit conflicts, as you are right now. Second, it's a good thing you're removing much of the slightly harsh POV out of the article ("real role-playing", etc.). I think this article should be as dry as possible when referring to these conflicts, as it's really not notable at all that there are small groups of hardcore fanboys on either side that refuse to acknowledge the other.
While the comparison to computer RPGs is important, the entire article shouldn't be devoted to it, it should focus more on the specifics on console RPGs without constantly saying "console RPGs do this, but computer RPGs do this" in every section. It should be simply contained to one or two sections. There's enough difference from them, with its own identity, history and information that this topic can cover. I think half the "Controversy and Criticism" section as it is should be cut. It's an argument that just doesn't really need to be covered that throughly. But statements like "Lastly, there is a small but vocal segment of the gaming community which abhors RPGs in general. Among this segment's criticisms are that RPGs involve no skill, are unrealistic or overly abstract, and do not offer strong gameplay." don't need to be in this at all!
So far it's mostly pretty good, though I think there are some language issues and the reference to RPGCodex is totally unnecessary (and a borderline advert), but I'll wait until you're done with your editing. --SevereTireDamage 06:19, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I referred to RPGCodex to provide evidence of such a community. It's not an advert because the site is just a forum, i.e. it doesn't sell games. Remove it if you want, I agree it does look like a "bump on the log" so to speak. Just not sure how else to supply evidence of such gaming communities. On your first point, thanks, I've dealt with fanboys from both sides and I usually try to remove as much POV as I can and unnecessary harshness. Regarding the "abhors RPGs" statement, I'll rephrase it. Controversy is a bit too strong a word perhaps. And sorry about the in-use thing, I didn't know that there was such a tag. -- Solberg 06:55, 12 July 2006 (UTC)Solberg
Ok, I removed the reference to the RPGCodex and simply just used "some players" since apparently the criticism is pretty famous (judging by the Comparison page content written by previous authors) so there's no need to point out a specific gaming community. I removed the Zelda reference because it's not really that big a deal. The rest of the criticism, although it may be reformatted, I think does belong there. I would disagree if your point is that Wikipedia should not document disagreements between fanboys. So long as it's done in a respectable, dry manner to both sides it's fine I think. Nothing wrong with mentioning (intelligent) criticism. Note that there is also a (pretty long) criticism section on the CRPG page too so this is nothing new. -- Solberg 07:26, 12 July 2006 (UTC)Solberg
Mostly done now. That took a while, any improvements are appreciated, overall I think the split between the two articles and the comparison page works pretty well. A good place to improve in article (besides general elaboration) is the history section, which has lots of missing gaps. -- Solberg 09:42, 12 July 2006 (UTC)Solberg

[edit] "console"-style computer RPGs

Making an incomplete list of console-style RPGs that are for computers (not necessarily IBM PC, could be PC-98 or FM-Towns). These Japanese/Taiwanese games fit in more with the characterization of the console role-playing game article (except the hardware limitation part) as opposed to computer role-playing game article. This initial list happens to contain many eroge simply because the overwhelming majority of the Japanese computer game market is eroge, and my list of Japanese and Taiwanese computer games are very incomplete. Tactical RPGs are not listed here because I didn't notice the main article counted tactical RPGs initially, and because tactical RPGs don't quite fit the description of the console RPG article.

  • 1989
    • Dragon Knight series debuts
    • Rance series debuts
  • 1990
    • Dragon Knight 2
    • Rance 2
    • Toushin Toshi
    • Xuan Yuan Sword series debutes
  • 1991
    • Rance 3
  • 1992
    • Words Worth (original version)
  • 1993
    • Rance 4
  • 1994
    • Toushin Toshi 2
    • Dragon Knight 4
    • Xuan Yuan Sword 2
  • 1995
    • Rance 4.1
    • Rance 4.2
    • Dangel
    • Xuan Yuan Sword side story: Dance of Maple
  • 1996
    • Ikazuchi no Senshi Raidi
  • 1998
    • Oudouyuushya
    • Pastel Chime
    • Desert Time - Mugen no Meikyou
  • 1999
    • Men At Work! series debutes
    • Ikusamegami
    • Wordsworth (Windows remake)
    • Kurenai no namida
    • Xuan Yuan Sword 3
    • The Twin Heroes
  • 2000
    • Persiom
    • Phantom Knight - Mugen no Meikyou 2
    • Brutish Mine
    • Men at Work! 2
    • The Twin Heroes 2
  • 2001
    • Yorugakuru
    • Card of Destiny
    • Izumo series debutes
    • Xuan Yuan Sword side story: Scar of Sky
  • 2002
    • Ikusamegami 2
    • Rance 5D
    • Men at Work! 3
    • Xuan Yuan Sword 4
    • The Twin Heroes 3
  • 2003
    • Danger Angel
    • Mugen no Meikyou 3 Type S
    • Vagrants
    • Fantasia Sango
  • 2004
    • Dungeon & Doll (part of the "Alice no Yakata 7" )
    • Izumo 2
    • Rance 6
    • Hitogata Ruin
    • Xuan Yuan Sword side story: ??
  • 2005
    • Pastel Chime Continue
    • GalZoo Island
    • Sonic Dive
    • Fantasia Sango 2
  • 2006
    • Men at Work! 4
    • Xuan Yuan Sword 5
  • Coming soon
    • Sengoku Rance (Rance 7)
    • The Twin Heroes Episode 0


  • Unknown dates
    • Dragon Knight 3
    • Legend of the Fairy Sword and Strange Heroes series: 1,New,2,3
    • Legend of the Condor Heroes
    • New - Legend of the Condor Heroes
    • Legend of Chu Liu Hsian
    • New Legend of Chu Liu Hsian

[edit] MSX

I added MSX to Dragon Quest. I believe Ys was released on almost every platform at the time, but I'm not sure of all of them. I also added a couple of games. I think something about the MSX should be mentioned near the beginning of the history as a lot of early NES games including Metal Gear were also released on MSX and NES could have even been an afterthought at the time. Also, I don't know anyone that calls these games CRPGS that is almost exclusively used for PC style games. Everyone I know uses JRPG whenever they have to distinguish them. I know its been defined in dictionaries to the contrary, but I'm talking real world use. Plus its just not practical and very confusing to call both divergent genres CRPGs.

I agree and in fact we had a discussion about this several months ago but unfortunately a definition is a definition. If you can find some reputable sources that show CRPG is used almost always for PC rpgs and JRPG for console RPGs (often made in Japan) then you could start a new debate maybe. Until then we have to stick with what appears to be the definition, practical or not. -- Solberg 19:42, 7 November 2006 (UTC)Solberg
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../c/o/n/Talk%7EConsole_role-playing_game_1d50.html"