Talk:Confederate Ireland

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All comments on this article are more than welcome JD

I've made a couple of edits to clarify bits on the Confederate's internal politics, which I thought were a bit confusing. Jdorney

Very good article, but my question is still unanswered. Does anybody know what percentage of the people at the Confederation of Kilkenny were patrilineally Gaelic-Irish? Another question: Was the Confederation actually the name of the parliament while Confederate Catholics were lead by the Supreme Council, which was formed as the effective government?

I forget the article but Dónal Cregan's study years ago of the anti-Gaeil rhetoric of the Old English verses the reality of their huge familial alliances with leading Gaelic families was very instructive. If anybody knows the study in question, that is my bonus question. Will be happy to get the previous two questions answered though! Thanks

Ok, here are some answers, to the best of my knowledge: A. The number of Confederate General Assembly members with a Gaelic Surname was about 40% of the total. Although, as you rightly say, almost all the "Old English" had Gaelic blood as well. The reverse is true of the Gaels. Donal Cregan was a real pioneer in the modern study of this area. Micheal O Siochru, who is the leading expert nowadays, argues that class and province was more important than ethnicity in Confederate factionalism. For instance, one of the most prominent "Old English" members was Donagh MacCarthy Viscount of Muskerry.

B. No, the Confederation was composed of all those who took its oath of allegiance. It was organised into a General Assembly and a Supreme Council which together formed a de facto government of Ireland. The important thing to remember here is that the Confederate Catholic Association of Ireland (to give it its formal name), never actually claimed to be an independent government, because they professed to be good Royalists, loyal to Charles I. Since only the King could legally call a Parliament, the Confederate General Assembly never claimed to be Parliament either, however much it acted like one. In negotiations with the Royalists, the Confederates demanded that all concessions made to them would be ratified in post war Irish Parliament, which would have looked a lot like the Confederate General Assembly with some Protestant Royalists thrown in.

Finally, sorry don't know then ame of the Cregan article, but I think I have seen the article you mention once. Jdorney 01:19, 22 October 2005 (UTC)