Talk:Command & Conquer

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" also, non-canon and unencyclopedic "

This claim (taken from the page its history section) is factually incorrect, as the storyline presented on PlanetCnC is indeed canon and represents a completely accurate and in-depth description of the events that transpire within the game its actual storyline. The former article's story section was indeed a direct copy & paste from the PlanetCnc website however, which thus may present copyright violations. GoodLuckDie 07:34, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't contradict the official storyline, but the PlanetCNC encyclopedia definitely adds details that weren't present in the games. Even though most of it is just background flavour, it's still fan speculation that isn't confirmed by Westwood or by the games themselves. Ironfrost 04:47, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

These details that you refer to can be considered as either more-than-logical conclusions, or simply as very well-funded deductions given the context of the games' storylines themselves. Contrary to what you appear to assume they were not exactly conjured up out of thin air, which is amplified by the fact they not only in no way take the storyline in a direction of which can be argued that it was unintented by the original authors, but also by the fact that they do not add any fanfiction-like elements to the storyline which can be readily disproven nor reasonably questioned whenever looking at the games' storylines. Feel free to provide some actual examples of what you mean should you not agree however, as you have made me quite curious, actually. But as it is, there was insufficient ground to describe the text as being 'unencyclopedic' let alone as 'non-canon', as is evidenced by the fact that many of these details have already been incorporated into the content of the various Command & Conquer pages here on Wikipedia, and this without any disputes regarding the articles their factual accuracy or neutrality ever having arisen because of them. GoodLuckDie 08:01, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

• "Unencyclopedic" in this context most likely refers to the copy-past of the information from planet cnc’s website. That move occasioned a revert for two reasons: first (and most importantly) we have no standing to use written copywrited material verbatum. That information must be reworded, and when nessicary altered to conform to a nuetral point of view. Admittedly, this does at times short change people by omitting pertinent information, however that is the policy of this website. Even if the exmples given are more than logical conclusions or very well funded deductions we would still have to provide a source for that information or insert a note that states that some of the information on the page is speculative. Secondly, most of the information added fits nicely into either the Global Defence Initiative storyline or the Brotherhood of Nod storyline, and as such should be incorprated on those pages. TomStar81 10:15, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Funpark missions 2 Funpark missions, part 2 3 Some concerns 4 Red Alert connection 5 Small Public Service Annoucement 6 Re: "in need of expert" tag 7 How do you get the bonus missions 8 Win95 version without CovertOps? 9 Mobius thing 10 Grain Trade Center?

[edit] Funpark missions

I'm not too sure if The Covert Operations is necessary for playing the funpark missions... I'll check it out someday to be sure. Also, shouldn't there be any info on how to access the missions? (-funpark as argument to the .exe) --ReCover 14:57, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I've tested it now and I'm certain that the funpark missions do not require The Covert Operations. Haven't edited the page though. --ReCover 15:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I could well be wrong (it's a long time since I played them) but I was under the impression you could play the dino missions with any disc (not just the Covert Ops one) as long as the Covert Operations was installed. Could you confirm that you tested this on a C&C install that hasn't had the expansion pack installed, rather than just using the Nod or GDI disc? Ironfrost 11:46, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure. And yes, the funpark missions are playable with any disc. And the fact that all the videos for Funpark are located in both the Nod and GDI movies.mix files (just made sure) confirms it.

If you don't have covert operations, but download and install the covert operations demo you can play the missions too.

[edit] Funpark missions, part 2

The article says "reports of strange creatures", and while Kane actually says "reports of odd animal behavior". I know it sounds stupid, but that really what he says. I'm uncertain to edit because it sounds so... stupid =). --ReCover 15:03, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some concerns

The name "tiberian dawn" is wrong. It was invented by some fan. This game is called "Command & Conquer", full stop. The article should be renamed. (the article currently called "command & Conquer" should be renamed something like "the Command & Conquer series" or "command & conquer games". I played the game right when it was released 10 years ago, and I have never heard it called "Tiberian dawn" by anyone until today. I don't know who invented that name, but don't think that fictive name should be used here on Wikipedia.

Also, it is wrong to define this game "a prequel to Tiberian Sun". When it was released in 1995, Command & Conquer wasn't a prequel to anything. The person who wrote the article probably played the games in the wrong order and doesn't understand what this game was back in 1995. If anything, Command & Conquer is the sequel to "Dune II" because its gameplay and interface are based on Dune II. The reason why the game is called "Command & Conquer" "full stop" is that it wasn't designed to be a prequel to anything. Command & Conquer is a standalone game, its setting and scenario are consistent on their own, they don't require the other games of the series.

The information about "Command & Conquer 3" seems to be completely fictive too.

The scenario of Command & Conquer doesn't mention the events of Red Alert in any way. Although the following episodes expose some links, these links are completely absent in the original Command & Conquer game, therefore they shouldn't appear on the page about Command & Conquer. Apparently, the person who wrote this article thinks of Command & Conquer as just an episode of the C&C series, and keeps describing it that way. All these considerations should appear in the page about the series, not in the page about the game itself. The "Command & Conquer" game is a standalone game, and its scenario wasn't requesting for a sequel. It's only the commercial success of the game that called for sequels. The page about the original "Command & Conquer" game shoud describe the game itself, as it stands, not the conclusions that come from the rest of the series or the inventions of fans. The scenario of Command & Conquer starts with the appearance of Tiberium "in a near future" (the game was released in 1995). There is more than enough material to write about the game itself. Connections with the rest of the series can appear on the page about the series. —This unsigned comment was added by 217.18.21.2 (talk • contribs) 12:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC).

I wrote the page, and I am well aware that the name "Tiberian Dawn" is incorrect, to be frank I am suprised that I have not been called for this by the administaters on this site. When this page was created an article titled "Command & Conquer" already existed, and I did not have the time to run the article through the move requests vote as several C&C related pages were up for deletion. What I did was to create a "fix", something suitable for the moment that would work, and I fully intend to correct this mistake. You are also right in you assertion that when this game was released in 1995 the game was not a prequel to Tiberian Sun, but after Tiberian Sun was released this game became the first in the Tiberian series. I am also aware that C&C 3 is, at this point, largely a myth, but the fact that concept art has been leaked and that it has been hinted at suggest that the game is (or was) considered for production. This is encyclopedia worthy, so the game has its own article; however the development tag on that article explicitly warns people that the information contained on the page is of a speculative nature. Lastly, while Command & Conquer does not mention Red Alert in any way, but there are scenes and lines in Red Alert that can credably support the theory that both games take place on the same timeline. It could be said that C&C is part of a Stand Alone Complex: each game is designed to be independent of one another, but they funtion as a group.

When reading this it is important to remeber two things: first, these pages are still being reengineered to better fit this new page and templete layout, therefore the page and its contents as they are now may be altered to reflect this change. Secondly, this is a wiki, which means that you have the power to change the material on the page. TomStar81 19:15, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

• actualy Westwood themselves have called it Tiberian Dawn.

While I agree with the the topic creator's intent, Westwood has referred to the original Command & Conquer as Tiberian Dawn as far back as early 1997 with the release of Command & Conquer Gold. In the C&C Gold Frequently Asked Questions file, Westwood states "Tiberian Sun is an entirely new game, not a data disk for C&C: Tiberian Dawn" [1] and "...RED ALERT is...[a] PREQUEL to COMMAND & CONQUER: TIBERIAN DAWN" [2]. Whelkman 17:24, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Westwood can refer to it however they like - none of the boxes or copyrights have ever said 'Tiberian Dawn.' They're what matters. Lots of games/movies/anythings have internal names; that doesn't make them the official name.--Gwilym 18:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Like I said, I agree with the topic creator's intent, but his testimony leads one to believe the title "Tiberian Dawn" has no standing whatsoever within Westwood, which is categorically false. I am by no means advocating revisionism, but the charges of "[Tiberian Dawn] was invented by some fan" is ignorantly speculative. As has been shown, Westwood has used the term since, at least, 1997. I don't advocate renaming "Star Wars" to "Episode IV: A New Hope", but it's wrong to suggest George Lucas at no point intended it to be called as such. Whelkman 19:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I've recently added a link to a 1995 Usenet posting which reposted the official C&C FAQ, showing that Westwood was using the Tiberian Dawn subtitle in 1995 or even earlier. This was before C&C Gold came out (or even the expansion pack game out) and thus refers to the DOS version. It is therefore not a fan title but a title used by the game's creators. -- Jordi·✆ 22:22, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red Alert connection

I've removed the section at the beginning of the 'story' section stating that C&C follows on from an allied victory in Red Alert. There's nothing in C&C to imply this, and as far as I can tell it's not stated in Tiberian Sun or Red Alert either. Even if it's not just fan speculation, the best it can be is a retcon, and if so it should be made clear that this is the case (preferably clarifying where the information comes from). Ironfrost 12:40, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I am inclined to agree with this. However, I'm certainly not convinced that any mention of the connection between Red Alert and the Tiberium games should be removed from the article entirely, for three specific reasons; 1) Kane's appearances in the cutscenes of Red Alert's Soviet scenario, 2) The fact that the Brotherhood of Nod is specifically mentioned in the ending cutscene of Red Alert's Soviet scenario and 3) The Westwood-made multiplayer map in Red Alert's multiplayer mode titled 'Things To Come', which essentially was Nod's emblem in multiplayer map form when viewed from the radar dome's mini-map. All these things from Westwood themselves hint strongly that Red Alert indeed is the prequel to the original Command & Conquer, although it remains debatable precisely in what kind of capacity, storywise.

As such, I'd advocate for a seperate section on the article's main page to be added which is dedicated specifically toward this enigmatic but nonetheless substantiated connection, which exists between Red Alert's storyline and that of the Tiberium Series. 80.201.169.202 06:53, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Small Public Service Annoucement

It turns out I still have the original Command & Conquer manual from when the game was originally released back in 1995. If any of you writers/editors want to verify certain things based on the information contained in the manual, feel free to ask me on these pages and I will be glad to look it up for you. 80.201.169.202 08:49, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I have the original Red Alert booklet, in dutch version though. Wouter Lievens 11:43, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: "in need of expert" tag

Is there any real reason for it to be there? I cleaned up the article a bit and, while I wouldn't consider myself an "expert" on the C&C games, I can't see that there is an awful lot more to do. Colm O'Brien 18:23, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I added that back when the article was first recreated because I was not quite sure if I had gotten the information in the article corect. I figured it would be a good idea to tag the article with the expert template so as to get someone a bit more familar with this game to check it out. Infering from your comments my facts are in fact correct, and as you said there isn’t really all that much left to do. TomStar81 19:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

All right. Tag removed. Colm O'Brien 12:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How do you get the bonus missions

I think the title asked all.

Ok, to play the bonus missions you must create a shortcut to the c&c executable, then go to properties for the shortcut, apply "-funpark" as an argument to the c&c executable. It could look like this "...\Command & Conquer\c&c95.exe -funpark" (don't forget the space between the c&c executable and "-funpark").

We probably should write how to do it on the article page... (please sign your entries on talk pages) --ReCover 17:22, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

• I agree it should bee on the article page Jamhaw 16:09, 29 May 2006 (UTC)jamhaw

Ok, I added some info, feel free to make it sound smoother... --ReCover 16:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Win95 version without CovertOps?

Was there a Windows '95 release of CnC Gold which did not include the Covert Ops expansion disk? A recent edit added The expansion pack also features the DOS version's soundtrack, which includes music that was strangely absent from the Windows 95 version. which does not make sense to me: the only releases for Win95 I know of are CnC Gold and the later re-releases of this in the compilations, which in all cases came with the CovOps disk included. -- Jordi·✆ 09:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mobius thing

There is a Mobius movie that is not scene because of a typo or something it shouild be mentioned not to mention how to get it.

[edit] Grain Trade Center?

I assumed it was 'Grand,' just pronounced kind of weirdly.--Gwilym 02:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)