Talk:Coming out
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The phrase "coming out" is increasingly being used for all "non-vanilla" forms of sexual expression (GLBT, BDSM, Poly). Dlloyd 23:34, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I hate to mention it, but I think this needs to be disambiguated with the older meaning of 'coming out', as in 'coming out ball'. DJ Clayworth 14:14, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I think it merits more than an "I hate to mention". This article itself starts out on the first line that it is properly "Coming out of the closet" often abbreviated "coming out". Here's what should happen (I'd do it but I don't know how, especially how to fix the "back pointers or pointees"): - "coming out" should be one of those disambiguation pages - this page should be "coming out of the closet" - the other meaning can happily live at "debutante"
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[edit] Material from Homophobia
- Sometimes homosexuals who are opposed to homosexual behaviour or who choose to hide their orientations, particularly public or political figures, are forcibly outed by campaign groups or newspapers who claim that opposing homosexual behaviour while being homosexual is hypocritical and should be exposed. Even prominent closeted homosexuals who do not oppose homosexuality, but rather wish to remain silent, are often forcibly "outed," as has been the case with several film actors and professional athletes, such as Hayden Christensen and Mike Piazza. This is a controversial tactic.
This material was in Homophobia, but I think that if it belongs anywhere, it belongs here. There's already a paragraph on outing. The Hayden Christensen article doesn't mention homosexuality at all. The Mike Piazza article says that there are allegations which have been denied. Given I don't have enough evidence at hand to support these hefty allegations, I won't include them in the article. And anyway, there's a long list of people who have been alleged to be gay and/or have publicly denied it. List of people who have publicly denied being gay, actually. Perhaps there are better examples. Even better would be someone who has admitted that they were successfully outed involuntarily. Perhaps the recently-resigned governor of New Jersey?
Having said that, I don't think there's much from the above that I can merge directly. So I'll just leave this here and perhaps it will inspire someone to expand the section on outing with more examples, or find a good list of outings or explain why people try to do it or something. -- Beland 09:12, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
[edit] COMING OUT Scientific
Please note that "COMING OUT" was not invented by gay community.
This is a psychological term found in all scientific encyclopedias and vocabularies as (simplified, can copy from encyclopedia if needed)
"expressing one`s subconsciousness through motion or act"
It can lead to discovery of homosexuality, but not necessarily and not at the 1st place.
This meaning should be at top. --Rastavox 00:08, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
- I believe you may have confused "coming out" with "acting out." The latter is a common term in psychology and means just what you say, but is quite different from coming out. Given that, and that "coming out" is now commonly used to indicate the end of hiding one sexuality (see National Coming Out Day under External Links below), I do think, based on experience, a review of the literature and a search of google, that this is the primary contemporary usage. Jliberty 01:41, September 12, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] External links
[edit] "Personal choice"
"This practice may be becoming less common as acceptance of homosexuality as a personal choice increases." No LGBTQ person will tell you its a personal choice. You do not choose your sexuality, whether gay, straight, asexual or anything else. Even the Catholic Church will agree with that one.
[edit] Objectivity vs. sloganeering
From "viewpoints" section:
- Today, more gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people are out than ever before, and many believe that being in the closet is unhealthy for the individual.
I don't see how "more are out than before" is a point of view. It's not even a very useful fact. Are we talking percentanges or absolute numbers?
Perhaps the writer intended to convey a positive impression of coming out by glad-handing it.
- More people are doing this than ever before.
Sounds like an advertisement. Or encouragement.
I recommend separating out the "fact" that coming out is more common from the "viewpoint" (held by many people) than being in the closet is unhealthy.
And by the way, I created a stub at closet gay which might need merging or redirection. --Uncle Ed 17:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Origin of term, "come out"
What is the origin of the term "come out" used to describe this process? Local gay lore here in the SF Bay Area is that it started in 1939 with the film "Wizard of Oz" and the lyrics, "Come out, come out, wherever you are ...." Is there any truth to this? - Davodd 20:25, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Mattachine Society
In the article is: "The decidedly clandestine Mattachine Society, founded by Harry Hay and other veterans of the Wallace for President campaign in Los Angeles in 1950, also moved into the public eye with many gays emerging from the closet after Hal Call took over the group in San Francisco in 1953" Can anyone confirm that the society was clandestine at the beginning and clarify how Harry Hay and the other could be "veterans of the Wallace for President campaign in Los Angeles in 1950" when Wallace candidate for president the first time in 1964, he was in 1950 still pro-segregation -he change mind later- (so I doubt he would have had anything to do with "comunists" and homosexual as Hay and the others) and he was in 1953 elected judge in the Third Judicial Circuit Court in Alabama? Thanks.--Dia^ 15:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- Answer on Talk:Mattachine Society. ntennis 03:17, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] RE:Current Viewpoints
In my opinion this section raises some interesting points about what it is like to be a 'non-straight' (whatever that actually means...) person in contemporary 'western society and culture' quite well. It has been said that while many aspects of life engage dialectically with society sexuality cannot becuase it is an invisible topic which is often ignored or overlooked. On the one hand bringing ones sexuality into the realm of everyday life does deconstruct barriers and allows for the discussion of sexuality at the level of society as a whole, however it is not possible, I believe, to do so without being further categorized and stereotyped by others. This situation is not unique to sexuality (think of typical portrayals of 'race', 'ethnicity', 'locality' in movies, TV, books, etc.); however, it is still an important aspect of how we imagine our sexualities. People create society, yet society also creates us by instilling us with a set of values, beliefs and behaviours. A social discourse of sexuality is, in many ways, a catch 22. Ignoring sexuality does not lead anywhere, and expressing sexuality can fuel the fire for stereotypes and discrimination. I long for the day when sexual orientation will no longer be a defining point of 'the self'.
[edit] Tom Cruise?
Maybe a bit about Tom Cruise and South Park should be put in this.--Chops A Must 16:52, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
