Talk:Comanche History

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[edit] Copyright?

See "Comanche" talk page for discussion of possible copyright violations.

Don't bother.... here it is.... TheMadBaron 23:19, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

From Talk:Comanche:

I am getting increasingly worried that large chunks of this seem to be virtually identical to other sources, especially

http://www.tolatsga.org/ComancheOne.html
http://www.dickshovel.com/ComancheTwo.html
http://www.dickshovel.com/ComancheThree.html

which is clearly marked copyright.

See also

http://www.runningdeerslonghouse.com/webdoc175.htm

Don't know who copied who, but I hope there are no copyright issues here.

I agree that the timeline appears to be a copy of

http://www.runningdeerslonghouse.com/webdoc175.htm - however, the site index says "All of this information is deemed to be public domain". TheMadBaron 09:27, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

• I recognize your concern, 86.136.194.171 (You're Matt, right? Why don't you register???), IMHO we probably won't have much left of those articles when we're done with trimming and cleanup. From looking at those articles (ComancheOne, Two, Three), I didn't see any direct pastes, but I freely admit I didn't do as thorough a compare as I could have. KillerChihuahua 17:04, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Yep... I don't register because I am not keen on people being able to easily browse through all the edits that I have made. I am also not sure what other privacy issues may attach to registration.

Ok, dunno why you'd mind, not like you write cruft or have bad grammar... No privacy issues to speak of, you don't even have to enter an email address if I remember correctly. (I could be wrong.) WP does nothing with your info anyway. If you don't register, please sign your posts with Matt.171 or something similar? Thanks much, I confuse easily (small puppies have small brains and are easily distracted) KillerChihuahua 13:57, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

The passages that I identified as being "copied" have now mostly been moved to the "Comanche history" page. Below are just a few examples. I just list the first near-verbatim paragraphs that I came across, and I came across these very quickly, so I think large chunks are verbatim or nearly so. I would slap a copyright warning on the page but I am not familiar enough with policy to know if I should do this or leave it to someone with more authority here. -Matt 6-Oct-05.

1. From http://www.tolatsga.org/ComancheOne.html:

"...lived along the upper reaches of the Platte River in southeastern Wyoming ranging between the foothills of the Rocky Mountains and the Black Hills. They got their first horses sometime around 1680 and changed dramatically within a few years."

and from Comanche history:

"...lived near the upper reaches of the Platte River in southeastern Wyoming, ranging between the foothills of the Rocky Mountains and the Black Hills. They started using horses around 1680, and changed dramatically within a few years."

2. From http://www.dickshovel.com/ComancheTwo.html:

"By 1716 the Jicarilla had been forced into the mountains of northern New Mexico, while other Plains Apaches had abandoned many of their settlements north of the Arkansas and were rapidly giving way across northeastern New Mexico, the Texas Panhandle, and western Oklahoma. Only a few Apache settlements still remained along the upper Arkansas. During the summer of that year Comanches and Ute visited several settlements in New Mexico to trade."

and from Comanche history:

"By 1716 the Jicarilla (Apache) had been forced into the mountains of northern New Mexico, while other Plains Apaches had abandoned many of their settlements north of the Arkansas river, and were rapidly giving way across northeastern New Mexico, the Texas Panhandle, and western Oklahoma. Only a few Apache settlements still remained along the upper Arkansas. During the summer of 1716, Comanches and Ute visited several settlements in New Mexico to trade."

3. From http://www.dickshovel.com/ComancheThree.html:

"Along the Santa Fé Trail, the first meetings between Americans and Comanches were almost always friendly. Still, it was best for Americans, if they wished to keep their trade goods and horses, to travel in large, well-armed parties ...a precaution made necessary as much by Osage, Pawnee, and Kiowa, as by Comanches. Actually, Comanches were relatively peaceful if they were seen at all, but as the most powerful tribe in the region, they usually received credit for depredations."

and from Comanche history:

"Along the Santa Fé Trail, the first meetings between Americans and Comanches were almost always friendly. Still, it was best for Americans, if they wished to keep their trade goods and horses, to travel in large, well-armed parties, a precaution made necessary by Osage, Pawnee, and Kiowa as much as by Comanches. Comanches were relatively peaceful when they were seen at all, but as the most powerful tribe in the region, they were usually blamed for depredations."

Well spotted.... like KillerChihuahua, I took a brief look at these articles when Matt first raised these concerns, and didn't notice the direct pastes. On taking a closer look (and having made a few changes in light of the above), it is clear that substantial parts of this article are, indeed, copied directly from dickshovel.com. The task of rewriting to avoid copyvio of ComancheTwo, particularly, seems enormous. Maybe KillerChihuahua's up for it, but I must admit, my enthusiasm's waning. I propose contacting Lee Sultzman to request his permission to use much of his stuff as is.... failing which, it might be best to abandon the page, and put prominent links to dickshovel.com in the History section of the Commanche page. TheMadBaron 00:37, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

I am up to it, what I lack is time to do it quickly. I can almost certainly do large chunks this coming weekend, if not sooner. That's the best I can do. MadBaron, I totally understand about waning enthusiasm, please don't abandon us yet! :P KillerChihuahua 13:49, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Two little words....

1) "Among the New Mexico Comanche, the main opposition to peace was a parabio named White Bull (Toro Blanco)."

Could somebody clarify "parabio", because some idiots probably have no idea what this word means. Like me, for example.

2) "One of the things that had attracted them south was trade: first with the Spanish in New Mexico, and then with the Americans."

"Americans", indeed.... we all know what's intended here, but just to be pedantic, the Comanche, Apache, Ute, Lakota, Cheyenne, Arikara, Pawnee, Kansa, Osage, Kiowa and Arapaho, all previously mentioned here, were and are "Americans". I think the word needs replacing with something a bit more specific. I'm not sure what, though.... TheMadBaron 23:09, 6 October 2005 (UTC)