Talk:Colley Cibber

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Colley Cibber is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do.

Colley Cibber appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on October 18, 2005.

Colley Cibber appeared on Portal:Theatre as Featured article for the month of April, 2006.

This article has been selected for Version 0.5 and the next release version of Wikipedia. This LangLit article has been rated FA-Class on the assessment scale.

Kudos to the authors of this article. It deserves to be featured. My own bit of literary trivia (about Brighton Rock) was something that nagged to be added (even if I got the spelling wrong). A lot of wikipedia articles are very ordinary bits of trivia and most are half-finished, but this one is in the top 0.1% --DiamondGeezer 19:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Pax to ALoan, but I done the deed. All my loose ends have been tidied up by Bishonen, and it's now a smooth read, a good tale, and a manageable and scholarly summary of a man famous and infamous. Geogre 02:40, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Congratulations - let me support is straight away... - ALoan (Talk) 09:42, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Wow - how can an article of this undoubted quality not be featured? It should be on WP:FAC instantly!

My only comment is, what about Brighton Rock and You are X and I claim my £5. -- ALoan (Talk) 23:08, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well, done it now. -- ALoan (Talk) 00:45, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Just a note on FAC status. I think the idea has always been for this to become an FA, but Bishonen and I are both still doing work. There is one major problem with the article. We've gotten the research in, and the material is there, but there is a substantial disjunction, both stylistic and substantive, between the biographical and Dunce sections. As one reviewer said, it appears that the amount and level of detail increases when it gets to the dunce material. I have undertaken to smoothe it to some degree. When the article was being constructed, the idea was to put in everything, then to weed out later. The weeding has been delayed by various things, but it's underway now. Geogre 13:49, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Fine - I withdrew if from FAC as soon as Bishonen objected. Apologies if I have stepped on toes. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:25, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Shoot, not my toes, anyway. I appreciate the information on the Graham Greene. I didn't know that. For my part, this is a good article that's just a little too sloppy at this point to be featured, but I'm just the Dunce guy (least ways I'm getting to be an expert on dunces). Geogre 15:51, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well, for my tuppence, in comparison to the general slew of sloppy articles, this is a pearl. But polish away :) -- ALoan (Talk) 20:41, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

This is an excellent article, wonders have been worked but I'm not sure about this claim that Cibber was the first actor-manager. Surely the same thing could be said about Richard Burbage (incidentally a rotten article) and even more convincingly Thomas Betterton, who gave Cibber his first big break. --Mr impossible 19:03, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

How do you figure Betterton gave Cibber his first break? I don't get that part. (The Richard Burbage article looks pretty good to me... now you've edited it! ;-) Whereas Thomas Betterton is pure 1911 EB, it's useless.) You make a good point about Betterton as actor-manager, but I wouldn't call him one in the same sense as Cibber and the later guys. He never had managerial power in anything like the way inaugurated by Cibber, even though he was indeed the de facto, or day to day, manager of first the Duke's and then the United company (at least so I claim in Restoration comedy). He didn't own the cooperative company that was formed in 1695, and definitely wasn't in a position to run it dictatorially, he was more primus inter pares. I can't tell you how nice it is to hear from somebody with an interest in these subjects, let me immediately hug you to death by asking you to please help with content at Shakespeare's reputation! (Compare the Talk page.) Bishonen | Talk 20:48, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 in the first paragraph... 2 Pronunciation of name 3 Edits to the Lead on October 18 (=article on Main Page) 4 Colley gay?

[edit] in the first paragraph...

He wrote some plays for performance by his own company at Drury Lane, and adapted many more from various sources, receiving frequent criticism for insensitive butchery of "hapless Shakespeare, and crucify'd Molière" (Alexander Pope).

I don't quite understand that sentence. Can someone reword it? Seems like "insensitive butchery" should be quoted and attributed (to pope?) insensitive butchery is surely not a "NPOV" phrase.......--Tothebarricades.tk 04:00, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Well, no, it isn't NPOV, because it's criticism, so it's slanted in a negative way. It isn't a quote, but I think it is an objective summary–at least, absolutely not an exaggerated summary– of the criticism that was levelled at Cibber's patchwork plays by his contemporaries. 18th-century flame wars were conducted in extremely robust terms, as you will have seen from various specifics further down in the article. Why, even Colley himself, as quoted below, called his own mixed-form productions a "Succession of monstrous Medlies that have so long infested the Stage"–you can imagine what his enemies called them! The Grub Street Journal said of Cibber's acting in a serious love scene that he looked like he was trying to steal the lady's purse rather than her heart. (That's pretty sad, after the way Cibber wrote about his youthful dream of playing a serious love scene with a beautiful actress.) And as the article states several times, Cibber's patchwork plays were the thing he got the most criticism for. Rude criticism, cruel criticism. But I do take your point. You think that in the Lead, before all the detail below about contemporary "storms of ridicule" etc, "insensitive butchery" comes across as being the voice of Wikipedia, an editorial judgement on the quality of his adaptations? Right? Of course that's not good. I can probably find some attributable quote to use instead, let me have a think. Thanks, tothebarricades. (Cool username!) Bishonen | Talk 05:06, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

There you go, editorial "insensitive butchery" changed to quoted and attributed "miserable mutilation". :-) What do you think? Recycled from the "Other plays" section below. Robert Lowe is the learned 19th-century editor of the Gutenberg Apology text, I reckon he's a fine secondary source. Bishonen | Talk 21:52, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation of name

It would be helpful for the article to note how his last name is pronounced. TotoBaggins

[edit] Edits to the Lead on October 18 (=article on Main Page)

As the main contributor, I appreciate all improvements, and it's great that fresh eyes are reading and editing the article today, but it may be a little backwards to make drastic changes to the Lead before/without reading the rest, as the Lead is a summary of the article. Sorry, but it doesn't make any sense to telescope Cibber's brash personality and his laureateship into one sentence in the Lead, stating that the former gained him the latter... sheesh. Or to say that two of his more tasteless comedies are interesting documents. Those are considered his two best comedies, as the article explains further down. Bishonen | talk 11:13, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, misunderstood. Will try to maintain character of better edits with fidelity to your comments. Metaeducation 12:19, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Cool. I do appreciate your consideration and your edits. Bishonen | talk 12:22, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Colley gay?

Hey Bish!

After the discussion that such a topic has generated on Shakespeare, i'm almost loathe to ask here, but my curiosity isn't satisfied. In searching for something over the weekend, I stumbled across the fact that evidently Mr. Cibber has been included in the Gay Literary Canon. I noted that your article says nothing on the subject (besides the fact that he was married and had children, which, as we all know, means nothing) but do you have any clue as to why he might be included? I'm praying that I don't receive a visit from Bishzilla for asking. :-) *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 18:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)