Talk:Coccinellidae

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Contents

[edit] Clumping

Why do they clump together by the thousand? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.120.57.113 (talk • contribs) 03:59, 14 August 2005 (UTC).

For warmth —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.118.230.154 (talk • contribs) 05:47, 20 November 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Genera

Perhaps the genera should go into a separate article. Also, http://www.wbrc.org.uk/WorcRecd/Issue12/ladybird.htm mentions additional subfamilies Rhyzobiinae, Platynaspinae, dunno how those fit in. Stan 17:26 16 May 2003 (UTC)

Indeed. That is the longest tatobox I have ever seen. :) Bryan

[edit] Commonwealth

Is Commonwealth an appropriate description here? Canada is part of the Commonwealth, but we call these ladybugs (it's a better name, I think, since they aren't birds but are bugs, just not true bugs). On the other hand, Canada is weird thanks to its proximity to the USA.

You're right, not many Canadians use it. Exceptions include Canada Agriculture, an Albertan museum. But I think Australian and New Zealander Englishes use "ladybird." I've changed it to "North American English" and "some Commonwealth English]] dialects". Is there a more concise way? --Menchi 05:26 26 May 2003 (UTC)
I believe the most appropriate would be to remove "(Commonwealth English)" and change "ladybug" to "(in North America)", I'm none too keen on these national derivations of English, anyway. Of course, technically that will include Mexicans and whatnot, but I would imagine the Mexicans that speak "English" will be heavily influenced by the U.S. just like the Canadians. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.78.160.254 (talk • contribs) 20:08, 11 January 2005 (UTC).
We use ladybird in Australian English. I don't believe that there's anything wrong with using Commonwealth English to exclude Canadian English. Sure, nobody's doubting the Canada is part of the Commonwealth but if the term Commonwealth English is to be useful at all, then it would best be defined to exclude Canadian English. Unless we only wish to talk about spelling ... in which case why not use another term, Commonwealth spelling, and define it to include Canadian spelling. Jimp 27Jan06

And just how did all of these English speaking nations end up with the English language? Which nation championed research into the natural world? Where was Darwin born?

Any deviation from UK English is a compromise and will result in poor understanding of a subject by introducing mutiple descriptives.

It is a dissrespect to the British nation to just ignore our contribution too language and natural history. We have a good reason too use Lady Bird, an historical reason. Bug in real English referes too annoy or a listening device and not any creatures. We use the word Insect as the Americans use bug. We also use the word Beetle in many descriptions but this is suspended with Ladybird for a good reason. Ladybirds are one of the first contacts of the insect world for a child learning about life. This child also encounters harmful insects like Bees and Wasps or dirty insects like Flies and Cockroaches. The term Ladybird is soft and gentle in its connotations and for a child it inspires a safe curiosity. It empowers the child too investigate something that it normally would be encouraged too leave alone. For a country that is only a few hundered years old the American view that its version of a older language is correct is another indication of its general arrogance. And Colour is spelled COLOUR! 81.152.156.132 03:22, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

After careful consideration of the current state of the world, I have to admit that Americans are of a higher quality than a person of my caliber. I regret my comments I've previously made and hope that someday the greatest country in the world, the United States, will welcome me with open arms instead of ridiculing me for the mangled state of my choppers. Cheers, mate! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.49.212.10 (talk • contribs) 14:49, 14 April 2006 (UTC).

Why are people whining about who's version of English is better? All languages are constantly in development so using age as a sign of being more or less correct is absurd! The original comment in this section was a simple question of using the label "commonwealth" and excluding Canada, without stating it in the article... Answer the question, solve the problem, and move on. There's no need to get into a "I'm better than you" squabble. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.11.90.69 (talk • contribs) 00:48, 1 July 2006 (UTC).

It's quite sad that in this thread - a discussion about the English language - none of the unregistered contributors are able to spell! :P EuroSong talk 10:46, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subtaxa

Should the Subtaxa go on a spearte page? They rather dominate this one. Andy Mabbett 11:38, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

You pushed me over the edge. :-) Done. Stan 16:02, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] More please...

Any clues on predators etc.? --JiMternet 10:43, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

How about lifespan? How long do they live? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.60.22.24 (talk • contribs) 20:00, 8 June 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Standardisation...

Perhaps it might be appropriate to standardise the name used throughout the article? Currently, the choice of whether to use the name 'ladybird', 'ladybug', etc. seems to fall in line with the nationality of those writing any particular section. I am thinking 'Ladybird' might be the most appropriate name to use, being the title of the page that all alternatives redirect to and all. Thoughts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.64.43.157 (talk • contribs) 21:39, 11 August 2005 (UTC).

I agree, it's confusing as is. I prefer Ladybug myself, however, doing a quick google search:
  • Ladybird: 992,000
  • Ladybug: 803,000
Since ladybird is about %20 more popular, I vote that ladybird should be the language in the article with a bolded mention of the term ladybug in the first or second sentance. --Quasipalm 14:19, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
It's actually more like:
  • Ladybird: 4,000,000
  • Ladybug: 7,000,000
--208.255.229.66 23:07, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Coleopterists seem to have adopted the judicious compromise of "lady beetle", which also has the advantage of adding "beetle" into the name, and dropping the misleading "bird" or "bug"; this would be an instance where bending the "most common" rule would be helpful. Google differences of only 20% amount to a dead tie, because it is so easily skewed by web page mirrors and such (not least of which is mirrors of our own content!). Stan 16:31, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

"Ladybird" is common in the UK; "ladybug" is common in the US. So you can't satisfy everybody. If "lady beetle" is an unacceptable compromise, how about the Latinate "coccinellid"? Gdr 18:13:57, 2005-08-13 (UTC)

I'd prefer "lady beetle", because it at least suggests ladybird/ladybug to the un-Latined. Stan 18:27, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
I know I'm a little late on this but I really think we should change the title and article convention to Lady beetle. It's the most scientific, non-partisan and descriptive. It would be great if we could always refer to the beetles as lady beetles in the text of the article. In addition, almost all of the other species with articles are named lady beetles. -- Rmrfstar 22:22, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
I find the american usage of the word 'BUG' to describe any insect very misleading. Bug suggests irritate or nasty insect.
Seems like a silly argument considering you call this insect a bird.  ;-) --Quasipalm 16:18, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Ha ha ha^ ... how true, Quasipalm. I also think the anon editor above you misunderstands the American usage of the term "bug". It's not just for nasty insects, but for anything from aphids to ants to grasshoppers. In fact, it's less used for nasty insects; most Americans wouldn't call wasps, bees, mosquitos, or centipedes "bugs", but would use their actual names instead. The dangerous ones have earned themselves more specific identifications. Anything simply called a "bug" is usually relatively harmless and tolerated (or even enjoyed, like ladybugs or pillbugs).
Anyway, I'd like to cast my vote for changing the title to "lady beetle" as well. It seems to be the most accurate and scientific. Kafziel 15:00, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
I'd vote for a move to Lady beetle: a fair, scientific & comprehensible compromise. I'd be against moving it to Ladybug: this would be against Wikipedia's Style Guide. Whether or not the article is moved I'd agree that terminology must be kept consistant throughout the article: firstly for good writing style and secondly, more importantly, so as not to have people think that we're talking about two different beetles. Jimp 27Jan06
Even if 'most scientists' prefer 'lady beetle' (and I am not sure this has been proved), this shouldn't mean that the article title should change. Naturalists aren't in a position to influence the use of the English language to that extent. DavidFarmbrough 12:47, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
To US readers, the title doesn't make any sense - many if not most would think it was some kind of exotic bird. Brits often complain about WP's US-centrism, it shouldn't be any more OK to have it be Brit-biased. We also have precedent for choosing scientist-favored terms, sea star for example. Stan 14:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Aren't you being a bit dramatic? I'm a US reader, and when I came upon this page, I read the first sentence, which clears everything up. Ladybirds (Commonwealth English), also known as ladybugs (North American English) or lady beetles (most scientists prefer this name), are a family (Coccinellidae – "little sphere") of beetles. Problem solved. Sometimes using scientific names makes sense -- but in this case I think either ladybird or ladybug is better because these are used by the majority of english speakers -- not lady beatle. And I think that US-centric articles are more common than UK-centric articles, (See:Gasoline not Petrol), so I'm happy to see this one use the UK name. -Quasipalm 16:07, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The vague consensus seems to be change the title of this article to "Lady beetle", but it still hasn't happened. Currently the article is titled "Coccinellidae". —Pengo 05:45, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't "Lady Beetle" be the most fitting name, considering the article puts forth that as the prefered use of scientists? As far as the article says, there is no nationality issue with the use of "Lady Beetle" either. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.11.90.69 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 1 July 2006 (UTC).

The problem is that it isn't common usage among the non-scientific populace. Normal American people call them "ladybugs", and normal British people call them "ladybirds". No-one outside the technical community calls them "lady beetles" (or not many, anyway) [and it would be in lower case, for several reasons]. Wikipedia does not record what things should be called, merely what they are called. --Stemonitis 10:03, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photograph

I've got a photograph of a ladybird I took in Panama. See User:DirkvdM/Photographs#Plants_and_Animals. I see there are already lots of photographs here. So if someone could tell me what ladybird it is I could place it in the right article. Thanx. DirkvdM 10:00, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

I have added a very fine detail version of the pupation Ladybird_Pupate.jpg I also have a similar picture of larval stage, if requested I will add it. Planktune 09:24, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] taxobox pic

Is there any reason why we are using this particular image in the taxobox; it isn't as clear or as intriguing as the second one. Could we possibly swap them? -- Rmrfstar 21:29, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Good job. I'm wondering if we really need 8 images of ladybugs... Wouldn't 2 or 3 be enough? --Quasipalm 06:28, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
I don't like Image:Ladybird-on-wall.JPG but I think the others are educational enough. There are a bunch of good ones on the Commons, shall we copy the free ones to there and make a link to the gallery (saving the best for here)? -- Rmrfstar 22:10, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


[edit] good luck

No one has mentioned the fact that ladybirds bring good luck. Or is this just an English thing?

- Sorry. I just found the answer to my question. I missed the bit in the main article saying that in Italy, if a Ladybird flies into your bedroom, it is considered good luck. - douga6


Why did you not quote the rhyme? "Ladybird, ladybird, fly away. Please come back another day" or something like that. Planktune 09:25, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


-- The version I heard was: "Ladybird, ladybird fly away home... your house is on fire, your children are gone.." According to the BBC, one theory on the origin of the nursery rhyme is that, before burning their crops at harvest time, medieval farmers used to scare ladybirds away so as to protect them. - douga6

Planktune, you're conflating two rhymes. The other one is
Rain, rain,
Go away;
Come again,
Another day.
Jimp 30Jan06

Good luck? Ladybugs have been using my apartment as a haven from the winter cold for about four years now. Every year they show up by the dozens, three or four at a time, and kill themselves by flying into my hallogen light and setting themselves on fire. This year the hallogen is gone but they instead habitually fly into my heating unit in the middle of the night and I'm awakened by the shrill cry of my smoke detector and the acrid stench of singed beetle. It's completely unpleasant and I'm losing a great deal of sleep. Lack of sleep lowers my immunity to sickness, so I've been sick three times already this winter. If that's what you call good luck, I'd hate to have the bad kind. - Sam in Washington DC

[edit] Spelling

The current version of the article seems to have a mix of Commonwealth and American English. Wikipedia's manual of style has this to say.

  • Each article should have uniform spelling and not a haphazard mix of different spellings, which can be jarring to the reader. For example, do not use center in one place and centre in another in the same article (except in quotations or for comparison purposes).
  • If an article is predominantly written in one type of English, aim to conform to that type rather than provoking conflict by changing to another.
  • If all else fails, consider following the spelling style preferred by the first major contributor (that is, not a stub) to the article.

Which predominates? Hard to say. There are more "-or"s than "-our"s but that's only because "color" appears more times than "favourite". There are no "-ise"s only "-ize"s but "-ize" is acceptable in Commonwealth English. On the other hand, the article is entitled Ladybird (at least for the present) and this is the term used throughout. It seems to me that perhaps the scales tip in favo(u)r of Commonwealth English.

What was preferred by the "the first major contributor (that is, not a stub) to the article"? Was there any such person? I've looked through the history and haven't found him or her. Rather it seems that the article has just grown bit by bit since it was first created by Karen Johnson. Unless I'm mistaken I suggest we stick with her style thus revert back to "-ise"s and throw some "u"s into the "color"s. Jimp 30Jan06

If we're going to change it to American English, we sure as hell can't keep "ladybird." I've never even heard anyone use that term in my entire life- the picture of the "ladybird" is even labelled "ladybug!" Dan 04:29, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Who the hell calls it a ladybird? It's a bug, thus ladybug. Someone needs to change the title and edit this dang thing. -Alex, 12.203.168.7 00:45, 26 March 2006 (UTC).

People in the UK call it a ladybird. -Quasipalm 17:18, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

It's not a bug; it's a beetle. Nickrz 22:46, 27 March 2006 (UTC) That taxobox image sucks - need to change it. I suggest Image:Harmonia_axyridis.jpg Nickrz 22:46, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

The case law is pretty clear on these points. Although never explicitly marked as a stub, at least by May 2003 ([1]) the article was well beyond a stub length, and includes one clear "-ise" spelling. On that basis, we should now stick to Commonwealth English spelling. As to the title, if there isn't a single acceptable global name (i.e. if we can't agree on "ladybird", "ladybug" or "lady beetle" (and I won't agree to any but the first!)), then we'd have to move it to the scientific name Coccinellidae, which would seem reasonable in this case. I'm happy with it as it is, but if someone wants to instigate a move to Coccinellidae, by all means go ahead. Moving it to American English is not a viable option.
As to the picture, if you really think the other one is better, then nothing is stopping you from changing it, although, as it happens, I prefer the existing one. --Stemonitis 15:40, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

It's just that picture shows no diagnostic characteristics, being from that odd angle. I don't want to look like I'm tooting my own horn, though.Nickrz 19:08, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh yeah - I think all the common names should redirect to the Family name. Common names are notoriously unreliable, arbitrary, and subjective. They should all be subordinate to the accepted taxonomic binomial. I don't know how to make these changes yet, else I would.Nickrz 19:12, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I have been bold and moved the article to Coccinellidae, and changed the text to match. I think this is probably uncontroversial, since different nationalities are equally fixed in their terminology. My only worry is that the article might now be a bit too technical, constantly referring to "coccinellids", but I dare say that can be softened over time. --Stemonitis 07:08, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
No, this is worse than any of the English-language alternatives. Even coleopterists use "lady beetle". Stan 14:33, 29 March 2006 (UTC)javascript:insertTags('--Kerowyn 23:41, 6 April 2006 (UTC)',,);
Yes, but lay people say "ladybird" or "ladybug", so there's no general agreement. WP:TOL states "…when common names are well-known and reasonably unique, they should be used for article titles. Scientific names should be used otherwise"; in this case, the names are not reasonably unique (there are three), so the common name cannot be used. Thus, Coccinellidae. --Stemonitis 14:39, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

A good change, in my opinion. Gdr 19:40, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I prefer Lady Beetle above all other versions. I guess the question is, if two English speaking coleopterists held a meeting in Japan, would they call it a Lady Beetle, or a Coccinellidae? -Quasipalm 21:07, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Well then gee, I guess Asian lady beetle, Thirteen-spotted lady beetle, Convergent lady beetle, Two-spotted lady beetle, not to mention the rest of the "beetle" names in Category:Beetles all need to be changed. (What's especially amusing about Thirteen-spotted lady beetle is that some "Gdr" guy wrote in favor of "lady beetle", even though by the arguments given above, it should be the least common name.) Stan 22:37, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not always consistent. Gdr 23:27, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Lady beetle is a widely used scientific name for lady bugs/beetles/birds. Coccinellidae is the worst option of all - even the scientific community rarely uses it. There are, in fact, more then 200 times less search results for "Coccinellidae" then for "ladybug", and 100 times less then for "lady beetle". Come on, when is the last time you called a dog Canis lupus familiaris? This is just silly. Matveims 00:12, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spot numbers

Isn't there some nursey rhyme or children's story that gives meanings to the different number of spots? I remember when I was a kid we thought that an even number of spots meant it was a girl and an odd number of spots meant it was a boy. (Or vice versa). Kerowyn 23:41, 6 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Identification

Coccinellidae?
Enlarge
Coccinellidae?

Could someone tell me if this beetle is a Coccinellidae? I looks like it (overall shape) but lacks the spots... IronChris | (talk) 12:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Dyanega has informed me on the talk page of WikiProject Arthropods that it is a Chrysomelidae - Subfamily Chrysomelinae - Genus Calligrapha. IronChris | (talk) 13:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hey

anybody want to chat?

I found a brown ladybird with white spots in my house just now. I've never seen one like that before. 84.70.253.79 18:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


Right now there is a ladybug on my British Columbian flag in my window...I shook the flag to get it off and it refused to move, I hit it with a pen and it refused to move, why would it not move when I poked it, mot bugs would either try to bite the pen or move away.

That could well be Calvia quattuordecimguttata, the cream-spot ladybird, based on your United Kingdom IP - a species for which have no article yet. --Stemonitis 08:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Long-Range Weather Forecast section is useless

This is a description of original research, and without any citation. It therefore seems subjective and is not verifiable.

[edit] Coccinellidaes as Pests

There should be a section on how Coccinellidaes are quickly being considered to be "pests" because they sometimes enter houses during the winter for warmth, especially the Asian ladybug. Vamooom 21:32, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Life Cycle

"The entire life cycle of the Coccinellid is only 4-7 weeks". But, apparently, they hibernate through winter. So how long does a ladybird live? Stephenjh 11:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RE:Advertisement Section

Why? It seems to me to be a totally pointless, irrelevant entry in an otherwise good article. Stephenjh 13:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

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