User talk:ClockworkSoul/Archive6

[edit] Images and media for deletion votes

• I am contacting people who previously helped to vote to delete a generally objectionable photograph by a vote of 88 to 21, and who might be unaware that immediately after that image was voted to be deleted someone posted another which was very similar in content. My objections to this, and the previous image that was voted to be deleted might be based upon reasons far different from any that you have, but I do object to it, and consider the posting of such images to be acts of asinine stupidity, which burdens the project and its major educational aims in ways that they should not be burdened, and can be extremely detrimental to the acceptance and growth of WIkipedia's use and influence. Thus far those who I believe to be in the extreme minority of Wikipedians who would like to include these images, many who have been channeled to the voting page from the article with which it is associated have dominated the voting, 23 to 12 (as of the time that I composed this message). I would like to be somewhat instrumental in shedding a bit more light upon the issue, and if possible, helping to turn the tide against its inclusion. It might also be necessary to begin making an effort to establish an explicit Wikipedia policy against explicite photographic depictions of humans engaged in erotic, auto-erotic, or quasi-erotic activities. To my limited knowledge such images have not been accepted as appropriate anywhere else within this project, and frankly I can agree with those who are casually labeled prudes for opposing their inclusion, that they should not be. Vitally important information that might be unwelcome by some is one thing that should never be deleted, but un-needed images that can eventually prevent or impede many thousands or millions of people from gaining access to the great mass of truly important information that Wikipedia provides is quite another. There are vitally important distinctions to be made. Whatever your reasons, or final decisions upon the matter, I am appealing for more input on the voting that is occurring at Wikipedia:Images_and_media_for_deletion ~ Achilles † 21:24, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Why The Welcome?

• Thanks for the welcome, although I have been registered for some time now and have given contributions although mostly work at Wikicities on my tab site Tablature. Why has Wikipedia started giving out welcomes? Jack 23:02, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for that

Heh, I guess I was just moving around to much and was absent-minded. Thanks for fixing my error. Sholtar 03:39, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] User Welcome

Thanks for telling me your opinion, I suppose I could take away the open task message... — Ilγαηερ (Tαlκ) 04:02, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Recent Changes

As an obsessive watcher of RC, I wanted to give you a nod for you're hard work. Every time I click the link to a vandal page, you've already deleted it when I've gotten there! Fantastic work! --InShaneee 04:13, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• I have to tell you though: my real pleasure is in finding copyvio pages. In fact, I just made a new template to drop on the pages of clueless newcomers that don't know not to copy and paste web pages: Template:nothanks. What do you think? – ClockworkSoul 04:19, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • That's a great idea! Copyvios are such a huge problem, since so many n00bs don't understand that they can't just copy/paste to here. I may have to add a link to that template in my toolbox! --InShaneee 18:47, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Oh, I'm glad I happened to peek at your talk page and found your new template. Thanks! FreplySpang (talk) 22:48, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the welcome! x3rx3s 05:53, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Same here, thank you for the welcome, it really is all about the Wikilove! It's cool to see that you are a fellow biologist. Hunter1084 23:37, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you!

Thanks a lot for the nice and big welcome! I know more or less how it works, I usually write in the Dutch Wikipedia, hence the nl behind my name. Sorry for my crippled English.

--Pationl 15:30, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] lambic images

hehe, I had a lot of fun taking them and trying them, will upload more of the series to commons later this week with a bit of help from user:eloquence.

I've also uploaded several pictures of beerglasses and beers to commons under the same nick.

henna

[edit] bierproject

oh my, I'll need help with translations for that :) I don't know all the names in english :(

henna

[edit] Fruit / vegetable beer

Aloha, and thanks for the invite. I'm not sure how much time I could contribute to the project, as I'm working on far too many things as it is at this point, but who knows, I may sign up. --Viriditas | Talk 08:57, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

Thank you; I'm glad you liked it. Now where's my barnstar?? You mean I have to work harder than that??? (Never mind; you haven't seen my rant on Wikipedia:Barnstar inflation.

I'm glad you liked the box, but I just pasted it in from the article's Talk -- I thought that was your suggestion. Not to whore for attaboys, but I'd rather hear you feel I made a substantive contribution to the article with my description of what a barnstar really does.

It is a purely factual comment -- to wax personal, my mother once owned a starred Victorian in Detroit, and she used to refer to the mortar as "peanut butter", and horrify visitors by digging a hole in it with her finger. She learned too late that barnstars are not mere decorations, but a sign that something is seriously wrong with a building, and that it may fall down at any time.

Only after I had written that short comment did I stop to think what the analogy implies -- does barnstar inflation not suggest that the ordinary mortar holding a wiki's society together may be crumbling? — Xiongtalk 22:31, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)

[edit] Catullus 5

Ok, will do! Check back in about 5 minutes and it should be changed. Ive never posted anything on here before so I'm still figuring everything out. I hope I'm responding to your message in the correct way as well! -- Its me again. I just added a short introduction to the poem, explaining a bit about it. I hope that helps. I will also create an account, I think. Thanks!

Thanks for the compliment! Im sure it could (and probably will) improve; I just sort of went off the top of my head... I was really only expecting to provide the translation which I only did, again, "off the top of my head." Yes, I do have too much free time! haha Ok well, this is my new username so you can recognize me from now on. Maybe at some point I'll figure out how to make my userpage as "fancy" as yours. Cheers, SapoScat 03:06, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Greeting

Hi, you're the first to send me a message welcoming me. I signed up a few months ago, but I'm still new to editing pages. I really need to figure out how to create chemistry pages, like drawing a benzene ring, a Fischer projection, chair conformation, etc.

I've added several articles, but my main interest is in sustainability. --lux 03:22, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for supporting my Adminship nomination --nixie 06:19, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Unfinished

I am not finished with the edit yet :) User:Kingsean1 23:05, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Just thought I'd say...

I, like many, happily received your welcome post, albeit several months ago. I want to say:

• Thanks, and
• I love the idea. It really is nice to come on and have a welcome message when you haven't even got 50 contribs yet.
• You should put in some encouragement for getting into the user community and talk pages. Lately I realized the best way to learn on WP is take examples from others, and talk to them.

Just thought I'd say that. --ROY YOЯ 04:15, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes! That's just what I was thinking of. You know, your suggestions could be good for more than newcomers, in some ways. Awesome userpage. --ROY YOЯ 17:31, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Unfinished

Nice to see that people are actually looking for copyright violators. I just find it easier myself to take an article or articles and edit them for useless info, to enhance it, etc. - Kingsean1

• I took care of it. Just a little more tweaking and I'm done. I'm receiving bits of info from a cousin of mine in Pretoria. :) - Kingsean1
  • Just read your user page, you spelled "idealogy" wrong. Ideology :) sorry, but I'm a spell checking nut. haha - Kingsean1

[edit] Moonwalk

Could you please expand this article? Did you know doesn't take stub articles. (The one that was on DYK today was there because someone else updated). Mgm|^(talk) 10:23, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Earthy colours templates

Hi ClockworkSoul, you said on Violetriga's talk page for the new template idea that you preferred earthy colours. I've had a go at making this (as I like them too); your feedback is welcome! They are at User:Talrias/Templates. Thanks! Talrias (t | e | c) 16:29, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments, glad you like them. In case you aren't watching the talk page for the templates, I've replied. Talrias (t | e | c) 16:59, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiing

Hey Clockyboy, thanks for helping me out and getting me started on the right path to wikiing. Have a great day. Geluso 06:37, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wrath

Well I am having a hard time on wikipedia... Too many people HATE me with a passion, I am not talking about people who voted no on my proposal. :/ --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 04:12, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Images from nuvola (→ reply)

Hi CWS, I'm talking about Image:Important.png, Image:File important.png, Image:Xmag.png, and Image:Knewsticker.png - I've just downloaded the package from iconking.com, read the license, read the About/FAQ pages, and I haven't found anything saying they are cc-by-2.0 - the only thing I have found is that they are LGPL. Can you find out where it says they are CC? Thanks, Alphax ^τεχ 16:34, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Hello, Alphax. The Legal Issues states that he licenses with both the LGPL and CC Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.0. I could have sworn that he used the latter in that package, but I must have been thinking of another package that I downloaded from the site: looking agian it appears that the icons are solely licensed under the LGPL. I'll update the images license tags immediately. – ClockworkSoul 20:29, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • No worries - I was worried that they would have to be removed (I like your boxes - colour is negotiable). I'm wondering if the entire lot could be uploaded to Commons - if so, which versions of them? Thanks anyway, Alphax ^τεχ 05:38, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • Heya, Alphax. :) I'm glad that you like the boxes. Fortunately, the colors are to be chosen last: the initial selections are style and then wording ;). As for introducing the library to Commons, does Commons accept LGPL-licensed images? If it does, then I say go for it, and recommend the 64x64 version (large enough to be sizable without taking up too much room). – ClockworkSoul 12:41, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
      • Commons has LGPL images, so I'd say yes. I'll create a Commons:nuvola page to put them on. Alphax ^τεχ 12:50, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] How to...

How do I delete a Talk page? Thanks, Dirkbike 16:53, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Template images

Hey there. I'm very much liking your Coffee Roll template scheme. I've borrowed your image organisation for my new "Obvious" scheme – I hope you don't mind. violet/riga (t) 21:56, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Heya Violet! It's fine with me. I'll be happy as long as we end up with a set of templates that are both aesthetic and functional. :) – ClockworkSoul 23:36, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • I was going to make a blue-green version based on yours (hence I asked about the image coprights ↑) but I decided not to, since colour is negotiable. Alphax ^τεχ 09:03, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you!

Thank you for supporting my nomination on RfA, it failed because of Wikipedia's minority rule system, although I thought 21/8 support was sufficient. It was also cut short by 12 hours. But your vote of confidence is greatly appreciated, now let's build an encyclopedia! --Bjarki 13:57, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Nails (speedy deleted)

Greetings, I have a question for you. I ran across an article on The Nails that had been marked as a speedy delete. I put an entry on it's talk page something to the effect that I thought that it might be better off on the regular vfd page. When I checked back later I saw that it had been deleted. I think they are probably notable enough for an article (two releases on a major label, three if you count Rough Trade and a cult hit or two). The article itself was very very stubby, one sentence about the song they are best remembered by. I would have filled it out more but I didn't want to if it was just going to be deleted. So I guess my question is how would I go about recreating it? I'd be happy to fill it out, and if appropriate, list it on vfd to get a general consensus on it. I know that recreating recently deleted material is frowned upon. Also, from reading the policy, it seems to indicate that votes for undeletion is meant for deletions that resulted from the regular vfd process. Perhaps I'm mistaken about this or that it's an acceptable path for speedy deletes as well. Anyway, any guidance on this would be appreciated! Sorry for being so long winded!! And no criticism is meant....thanks! Rx StrangeLove 01:03, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Blocked

Hi, you blocked with a "PWOT vandal" reasoning. I may be a member of the PWOT community but my additions to the deletion discussion were all legal and perfectly civil. I haven't commited vandalism in any way. Can you ammend this?

[edit] Mitochondrial genetics

Hello. I see you've started some remodeling on mitochondria and I was hoping you could help me and a few other people do the same to the page I started on Mt Genetics... I copied it from a research paper I wrote but it need a LOT of work. Some of the information should probably be moved around to endosymbiotic theory, genetics, and even mitochondria. Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated! DavidMendoza 03:46, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bakudai

What's going on with User:Bakudai? He e-mailed me saying that you blocked him, which I checked and it is true that you did, and says that the block was unfair because he did not actually vandalize. It is true that he had misleading edit summaries, such as "blanking" when he did not actually blanked a page, but I do not see any vandalism, and apparently he was reverting vandalism for a while. I'm not saying that the block was wrong, just investigating. Any help would be appreciated. Academic Challenger 09:12, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Typos

Not at all; I always hope that people will find mine. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:31, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thank You

Well thank you for unblocking me. It was a typo when I referenced you on another board, and I was posting the message more in disbelief rather than a more trojan horse sort of way. But hey, thanks again. You should put your email up so people can contact you Bakudai 17:42, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Well thank you for unblocking me. It was a typo when I referenced you on another board, and I was posting the message more in disbelief rather than a more trojan horse sort of way. But hey, thanks again. You should put your email up so people can contact you Bakudai 17:42, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm just glad that this whole misunderstanding appears to be over with: I don't take much pleasure in having to block people. Of course, you have to admit that it was a very unfortunate typo. :D – ClockworkSoul 17:48, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Oh, totally. Thats what happens when you spill beer on your laptop sometimes. Bakudai 17:51, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 200.30.222.170

This IP has committed over thirteen reverts today on Salvador Allende. Can you please block him at this time? The situation is getting out of control; several complaints have been filed on WP:AN/3RR but nothing has been done. Thanks for your help. LevelCheck 21:25, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 3RR blocks

Good point. I was surprised that no-one had written to him on his Talk page (that's partly because he's an anon, I think), but just assumed that the 3RR had been mentioned to him at some point. I'll unblock him, and explain why on his Talk page (if you haven't already done it). Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:52, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've just unblocked him, explaining why, and left a note at Talk:Salvador Allende saying what had happened, and recommending that in future they warn Users before reporting them. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:06, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I apologize for not warning him beforehand. I had simply assumed, without checking, that he had already been warned, due to the number of reverts. I try to assume good faith and not bite the newbies, but this user's actions appeared to be undertaken deliberately. I apologize if this was not the case. LevelCheck 19:31, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] SI Units

Regarding your post on Talk:Chemical warfare, can you point to a policy somewhere on Wikipedia that says we use only SI units? I searched, but was unable to find one. – ClockworkSoul 22:05, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Actually, it's in the style guide. It gives us editors quite a loose leash — which is why I think the inch value in the article is probably okay. But it does state repeatedly that SI units are preferred. Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)

It also states that in text units shouldn't be abbreviated, but I've left millimetre as mm. Do you think that would be okay, or should it be changed? Of course, it's just a style guide and not an actual policy, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it. Shinobu 23:37, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] User:211.160.80.35

Can you block 211.160.80.35? I'm trying to keep up with him or her, but it's taking a fair amount of effort. Revived 03:09, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "JImbo Wales"

Thanks for dealing with that vandalbot or whatever it was. I figured someone might already been dealing with it when I mentioned it at VIP. Dare I even ask what that guy's about? -- Gyrofrog (talk) 03:38, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] thank you

Thanks for the welcome... this is a lot of fun. BTW, reading your userpage made me want a beer SO stinkin' bad! Oh well. Keep up the good vibes. Knowmoore 10:14, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] RfC Help

I am trying to set up a RfC against a user here for gross violations of POV issues, but I just need a few tips on how to get it done. Thanks. Zscout370 11:46, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Edit to Brewery article

Hey there, I saw your edit to the brewery article dated 14:16, 29 Mar 2005, in which you switched the word distributor to retailer for microbreweries. I work at a microbrewery, and in fact most breweries in the US, regardless of size, are required to sell to a distributor, due to the three-tier system. If you don't object, I'll switch it back to distributor and work on an article for the three-tier system. Abek 20:55, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I checked the definitions at the Brewers' Association website, and they say something that is a good compromise between what I say and what you say, so I adapted the definition to fit that. Abek 05:19, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] HELP

Please unblock me (User:Fish Supper).

"Jayjg" has blocked me claiming I have violated 3RR on Historicity of Jesus, which I haven't edited once!!!.

And if he is talking about Jesus, then he has blocked me without blocking User:Slrubenstein as well, who made 4 more reverts than me!!!, like he is corrupt and biased or something.

Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RR#User:Fish_Supper. User is also suspected of being a sockpuppet of banned User:CheeseDreams. Jayjg ^(talk) 23:22, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Previously blocked user now vandalising again

Hello, the user 80.227.56.46 has again decided to vandalize the page Supreme Leader of Iran. I posted a note of this on the Wikipedia:Vandalism in progress. HappyCamper 03:53, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Featured Article

Pederasty is one of the most intelligently thought out and articulated articles I have read anywhere, and the fact that it is so given a potentially controversial topic is even more remarkable. If there is a nomination process I nominate this article for featured article :). --ShaunMacPherson 04:06, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

To be listed as a main page featured article, it first has to navigate featured article candidacy. I only skimmed it, but this article looks like it may have FAS potential, why not drop by and nominate it? – ClockworkSoul 05:40, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I talked with the main and reoccuring contributor and he said there are a few ways it can be improved upon that maybe needed before it is good enough to be a featured article. He is not available to edit the article at the moment though, and I've not contributed to it so I'll defer to his judgement and wait to nominate the article - esp. if I have to justify why its so good without his input :o).

Thanks for the feed back and help. --ShaunMacPherson 01:56, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Patience

Clockwork, sorry to bring this up again, but things do not seem to be working themselves out, yet, on the Andrew Wakefield article, and similar games are being played out at Edward Yazbak and Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, among others seriously compromised by anons. The Mark Geier article also has serious flaws now. The overriding theme encountered seems to be suppression of information and character assassination. While not surprising, given the avalanche of disinformation spewed forth by the pharmaceutical industry, the edits seem to follow a decision-tree pattern, wherein reason and common sense are left behind. It is hoped NPOV edits will be guided by a responsible balance, between gracile quality of form and robust quality of function... Ombudsman 20:59, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

In my view, Ombudsman has demonstrated a high level of campaigning motivation against vaccines [nb "the avalanche of disinformation spewed forth by the pharmaceutical industry" etc], and is seeking to advance this campaign through this encyclopedia. He accuses those who correct quite serious errors [nb he claimed the Wakefield paper was not about MMR, and got the year of its introduction wrong by more than a decade] of "vandalism". He deletes reasonable developments to his text and restores his originals word-for-word. I think tellingly, he edits his own discussion comments in order to revise the history of his own positions. He also seeks to use biographical entries as a way of carrying forward his campaign. This has proved embarrassing to those he seeks to champion. The anti-vaccine lobby, in large part driven by the Thimerosal omnibus action before the vaccine court, has tried to inflate the credentials of its supporters, such as the Geiers and Wakefield, who are by any standards minor characters in either medicine or science. For instance, Ed Yazbak, who I know personally, but whose name Ombudsman spells wrongly, has a commendable career behind him looking after children, as a physician. He is not an "autism researcher". He is not a "vaccine researcher". He doesn't see children, he doesn't have a lab. In point of fact, the only clinical research he has ever published to make it onto Medline/Pubmed is a report on the Apgar scores of a pair of twins in the Rhode Island J Med in 1966. I think he has five letters or review articles indexed in the last three or four years, and nothing else indexed whatsoever. He has no published research in any indexed journal on either autism or vaccines. However, it is outrageous that he should be hauled through the mud by the necessary corrections to his biography simply because Ombudsman misrepresents his status and career in the first place. My fear is that the misinformation being stuffed into Wikipedia is then taken up elsewhere, adding to the tragic carousel of false rumor over vaccines and autism. ANON (but no more so than Ombudsman)

Thank you for explaining yourself. If you would explain your reasons for making revisions in a timely manner, there would not be such compelling reasons for reverts. Please get a user name. To err is human, but making unexplained wholesale changes as an anonymous poster is neither curteous nor in accordance with Wiki policy. Geier and Wakefield may not be giants in their respective fields, but they have demonstrated courage and great scientific insight, and the unfounded personal and professional attacks which they have weathered epitomize the disinformation campaign condoned by the pharmaceutical industry. If there were explanations - as you have now given - when you made the "corrections", there would have been no need for complete reverts. If you look at the Wakefield and Geier articles, you can see attempts were made to integrate salient material, yet the same pattern of unexplained anon mischief continued there, and appeared again on Dr. Yazbak's article. Please, focus on improving content, rather than attempting to suppress valuable information. Ombudsman 21:10, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] My PfD

It is supposed to be a joke, anyways. I set everything up, including the vote by User:abcdef. I just want to do it for kicks, then remove it after two weeks. Zscout370 15:04, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] AMA Meeting Proposal

Hi! I put together a proposal for another AMA meeting that I'm hopeful you can chime in on. --Wgfinley 19:47, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar idea

Hello, ClockworkSoul. I have an idea for a new Barnstar; before it possibly goes on Barnstar and award prop., could you please tell me what you think of it? (I'm open to disapproval. ^_^)

The Resilient Barnstar is awarded to those who boldly but respectfully make their differing opinions heard in discussions, learn and improve from criticisms, or merely dare to make a difference for the better in the Wikipedia community. Recipients of this Barnstar never let mistakes or blunders impede their growth as Wikipedians, are always ready to contribute whenever it is fit, and have the ability to recover/finish with a smile.

Thank you for all of your help! - Sango123 22:12, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC)

P.S. I also have some image ideas for this Barnstar. Thanks again!

[edit] Wikipedia is Communism Vandal

Hey Clockwork, I was wondering if I could create a template for this specific vandal, with their own specific picture. Thoughts about Brezhnev made me draw one. It can be seen at the right. Zscout370 01:26, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] R. S. Shaw

Since you asked, I'm Californian. 'Shaw' is a common surname (144th most common in 1990 US census). 'Soul' on the other hand, is quite uncommon. -R. S. Shaw 19:36, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

Thanks for your support on my Barnstar idea. The proposal is posted at BAP. ^_^ Sango123 20:09, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Whoops!

I apparently got you confused with last nights sockvandal "Clockwork Soul", after seeing some of the text on WP:TFD sorry for the mistake. I just realized it after 3 reverts. :| -SV|t 13:50, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Masturbation

Would you care to register an opinon on the Masturbation Talk page as to whether a full color photograph of male masturbation is suitable for that page? Thank you. Force10 22:29, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)