User talk:Clinkophonist/Archive1

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1 Welcome
2 Move
3 Edit summary on Template:Move
4 Re: Criticism of Christianity
5 What's your plan
6 Edit summary
7 talk
8 Warnings
9 Cut'n'paste is evil
10 Bit of detail on lions that might interest you.
11 Talk:Historicity of Jesus
12 Criticism of the Bible
13 Inconsistencies in the Bible

[edit] Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, Clinkophonist/Archive1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! AndyZ 17:26, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Move

Please place your request at Wikipedia:Requested moves if you have not already done so. Thanks...KHM03 22:34, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

You may want to weigh in at Talk:Biblical inerrancy to explain why you propose the move. Thanks...KHM03 12:45, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Edit summary on Template:Move

Hi, could you explain why you removed some stuff from Template:Move with the edit summary "-pov and bias"? Cheers, Talrias (t | e | c) 22:38, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I was deleting (-) pov (pov) and bias (and bias). Clinkophonist 22:39, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

What POV and bias was there to remove? Talrias (t | e | c) 22:44, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

That the template should be in a certain place (pov), and inserting the adder's identity (bias) Clinkophonist 22:47, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

How is it POV to have the template in a certain place, and how is it bias to record who initially proposed the page move? Talrias (t | e | c) 22:49, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Its POV to have the template in a certain place because other people think it should go somewhere else. It should be up to who added the template, and there is certainly no rule that I can see that says it has to go in only one place. As for the name of the individual it's recorded in the history already. To put it on the page as well implies that there is some value in knowing who made the request, but why should that matter? it is the request itself that should be judged for merit, not who made it, hence it is bias to point this information out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Clinkophonist (talk • contribs) 22:56, 4 December 2005.

Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy only applies to articles. There is a policy that it belongs on talk pages, as the template is only relevant to editors. Wikipedia also has a policy called "sign your posts on talk pages", which is why the request template ({{WP:RM}}) has this. Talrias (t | e | c) 23:09, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I can't see a policy that says it belongs on talk pages, and sign your posts on talk pages isn't a policy, its a guideline, not a law. Clinkophonist 23:33, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Why is my name red? Clinkophonist 22:39, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Because you haven't created a user page (at User:Clinkophonist). Talrias (t | e | c) 22:44, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Criticism of Christianity

Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. -- KHM03 00:10, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

That is not a test. I find it extremely offensive that you cast my edit as such. --Clinkophonist 00:13, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Your recent edit(s) were either a test or outright POV vandalism; I was opting for the kinder, gentler approach, but if you insist it was not a test, I'll believe you. To say that "...the Pastoral Epistles are a product of church fakery..." is POV and inaccurate; scholars maintain they are likely pseudonymous, a critical term used in a specific way that does not have your apparently intended POV impact. Please refrain from this type of edit, as it is against WP policy, and particularly probelmatic on such a disputed article. Thanks...KHM03 00:17, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism involves vandalising. Adding readable content without damaging the content of the article is not vandalism. READ Wikipedia:Vandalism. You are highly biased and your false characterisation of my edits as vandalism is extremely offensive and against policy. Clinkophonist

The article has been labeled POV and "weasel" for some time; do you feel your recent edits have helped to resolve these disputes? KHM03 02:03, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

To some extent. For example, the Rwandan Genocide /Treatment of Gays/of Women section I have moved into a sub article with a more neutral aim. Also see that article's talk page (Talk:Criticism of Christianity). Clinkophonist 09:47, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What's your plan

You seem to have a plan for a larger re-organisation of articles like Alleged inconsistencies in the Bible, Internal consistency and the Bible, Biblical scientific foresight, et al. Cam you please outline your plan or direct me to a page where you already did it? --Pjacobi 17:07, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

See talk:Criticisms of Christianity. I believe I mentioned this on at least two other talk pages, and my previous comment on this page. Clinkophonist 17:53, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Edit summary

Your edit summary "centuries of Jewish knowledge about how this was supposed to be interpreted is written within it" is music to my ears[1]. JFW | T@lk 22:35, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] talk

Please discuss on the appropriate talk pages before simply reverting to the older POV/inaccurate versions of the Jesus/Bible articles. Thanks...KHM03 23:15, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

It is you who is acting to produce POV/inaccurate versions of the Jesus/Bible articles. Clinkophonist 23:22, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Please stop and discuss first or we'll have to seek outside intervention. Please be reasonable. KHM03 23:31, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

If my latest edit summary on Historicity of Jesus seemed like a personal attack, then I apologize. I didn't mean it to read like that, but it read funny when I re-read it. KHM03 23:35, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Warnings

You have been blocked from editing for 24 hours for violating the three revert rule in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy. If you wish to make useful contributions, you are welcome to do so after the block expires. Pathoschild 00:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm curious, exactly what brought that to your attention? Clinkophonist 00:22, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

According to that policy, you must warn me before blocking. You did not. You should therefore unblock me. Clinkophonist 00:23, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The matter was brought to my attention by a user on the #wikipedia-en-vandalism IRC channel. The policy does not prescribe warning users before blocking for violation of the 3RR rule, nor do I consider it necessary. Users who revert are or should be aware of the rule. On the condition that you refrain from violating the rule again, I have no problem unblocking you early. // Pathoschild 02:01, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

For the record...I didn't bring this to anyone's attention. I regret that you have been blocked, because I think your violation was probably unintentional. Read my comments at Talk:Christianity, and Biblical adherance when you can. Even if I or we assume good faith on your part - which I'm willing to do - you need to recognize that your plan is not something the WP community has agreed to. Reconsider. KHM03 02:29, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I really didn't think it was you, I thought it was someone with less moral standards. Clinkophonist 05:25, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cut'n'paste is evil

Hi Clinkophonist,

Whereas I see the positive idea behind your restructuring approach (as far as I understand the impetzs), transferring the stuff using cut'n'paste is evil for reasons of copyright.

If the vast majority of an article's content should go under a new title, this should be done be page moving, so that the hostory is preserved. This would be the case for Internal consistency and the Bible, please have look at the talk pages.

If an article gets split, as I assume is planned for the scientific foreknowledge, the split off should mention the original authors in the edit history.

If you habe any questions on these issue, don't hesitate to ask me.

Pjacobi 11:26, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

It does, my first edit summary states exactly where the content comes from.

Unfortunately there isn't a single example of a page being moved elsewhere. The content is mostly split into multiple articles which are merged to from other articles as well. So its just the first edit summary, really. Clinkophonist 11:28, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

B.t.w. Internal consistency.... originates from Alleged inconsistencies...., Criticism of Christianity..., Authorship of the Pauline ...., New Testament and Gnosticism..., and a few others. It's a bit difficult to cram all of that into an edit history. Clinkophonist 11:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bit of detail on lions that might interest you.

(from an older verion of BSF)

However Schaller also writes "While one lion grasps the throat, others usually begin to eat, and the animal may die from loss of its blood and viscera rather than from strangulation or suffocation" (Schaller, The Serengeti Lion, 1972, p266). Schaller also writes that the "classic sequence of events" is for a lioness to bring down the prey by biting the throat, then the lion will begin to feed while the lioness strangles. The prey dies within four minutes, the the male continues to eat alone, with the lionesses feeding only after the lion is sated. (ibid. p267). The Bible describes the lion killing for the lioness, the opposite of what Schaller describes.

Schaller describes Serengeti (African) lions, whereas the Biblical lions were more likely the smaller Asiatic lions, extinct in Palestine since the 13th century AD. MickWest 23:45, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

It's probably best to put that somewhere like Science and the Bible rather than my talk page, though it does interest me. Clinkophonist 19:35, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Historicity of Jesus

Responded to your question...hope it helps. KHM03 20:06, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I also attempted some compromise/conciliatory edits...albeit small ones, but it's a start. Hope you noticed. KHM03 20:13, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

You did notice that I stated I had retained the ampersand? Clinkophonist 20:14, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Don't think that was me. I added two main articles to the "Gospels" section (the main "Gospels" article as well as the "Synpotic problem" article), and tweaked the paragrpah which began "Believers in Biblical inerrancy..." to include the idea that many reject the supernatural claims of the Bible. KHM03 20:18, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

You might like to actually investigate what your edit actually resulted in. Clinkophonist 20:23, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Unsure what you mean. KHM03 20:25, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Main articles: a and b

You don't care for that compromise? KHM03 20:59, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Let me say it again. You did notice that I stated I had retained the ampersand? It would help if you read things properly before reaching a conclusion about them. Clinkophonist 21:33, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

The point is that I'm trying to wade through these POV waters and work with you (and others), trying to compromise. I hope you can do the same. KHM03 23:17, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

FYI -- You are close (as am I, I think) to violation of the 3 revert rule at the "Historicity" article. Just be careful with any more reverts in the next 24 hours or so, lest another block occur, which I don't want to see. Just a heads up...KHM03 20:06, 17 December 2005 (UTC)