User talk:ClairSamoht

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WikiProject Indiana Alert posted:

Contents

[edit] Lancaster County Change

You deleted information in Lancaster County wikipedia entry saying it is POV and unverifiable. Which sections are unverifiable and/or POV? For the sake of discussion, please point out which of the following sentences are POV or unverifiable/untrue:

"Lancaster County's politics have often not been in sync with the rest of Pennsylvania or with the Northeast as a whole. Even when Pennsylvania strongly supported Andrew Jackson and his Democratic Party, Lancaster was something of a Whig Party stronghold. The town and township of Clay are even named after the famous Whig politician Henry Clay. Lancaster supported the Presidential candidacy of native son (and Democrat) James Buchanan in 1856, but has been a Republican stronghold ever since, in spite of the many shifts in party loyalties and geographic bases across the US as a whole in the past 150 years. Thaddeus Stevens, the noted Radical Republican, was Lancaster's representative in the House of Representatives until his death in 1868."

It would seem to me that politics would be a minor part of a general description of Lancaster County. It would seem that a very long table listing every single state and federal representative would be overkill.

[edit] Lancaster County Change 2

I didn't write the section about political history. I just happened to read it and to me it was interesting. The township Clay being named after Henry Clay? Lancaster being Whig, while Pennsylvania supported Andrew Jackson? Thaddeus Stevens being a member of 4 political parties being from Lancaster?

Then I saw that section replaced with a long table simply listing current politicans, with the interesting stuff deleted, I was suprised. I'm all for refrences and verifying data, and will search for sources to list to back up this data.


[edit] Selfridges

Thanks for the feedback, references added to piece. User:Civicsight

[edit] Fingerprinting

Thanks for suggestion of using a NPOV tag on the Fingerprinting discussion. I inserted the paragraph that had been eliminated and no one has removed, so that now it is reasonabley balanced. I guess I just have to monitor it since those with professional interests in exagerating the accuracy of their forensic evidence would like this dose of reality to go awayArodb 17:45, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


The PR guys for the fingerprinting expert witness association are not going away. They keep reverting my version that discusses the controversy over the validity of fingerprinting as forensic evidence. I need some help in getting arbitration on this.Arodb 03:23, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:AFL

G'day Clair, was wondering if you'd be interested in joining the latest footy project we have going on, WikiProject AFL. Cheers, Rogerthat 06:10, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vegetable oil

That was a very nice addition you made to the article, but it really cries out for references. Could you please list your sources in a References section at thye bottom of the article. Don't worry about the format, just provide enough information so that others can identify the source. Please see Wikipedia:Verifiability as well. -- Dalbury(Talk) 12:21, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bill "Tiger" Johnson

Hi. You did a nice job on the article for Bill "Tiger" Johnson. There're a lot of sources that he attended Tyler Junior College, but could you tell me where you got the information that he attended Stephen F. Austin State University? I haven't been able to find anything about that on the internet. This site indicates that he played college football at Texas A&M, though both could be true. Thanks. ×Meegs 14:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank's for that link. I'm not certain calling Heinz would get us very far, and I'm fairly content just to have something written to cite (even that rah-rah web site). I think the article & talk page are in good shape now, and others will will come-along and expand it. ×Meegs 18:22, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Windex

Thanks for your additions! Could you please cite your sources? Thanks! -SCEhardT 03:16, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] nice job on reservoir war

Lots of edits in only 2 months. Your excellent edits at Fort Wayne, Paulding, & Lancaster suggest the possibility of a personal geographic trajectory from the Maumee valley to SE Pa, just like Lincoln Life & at least one other editor. alteripse 15:36, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Lancaster PA infobox

Thanks, i have been trying to progressively add the box to the major cities in the state. BTW nice work on Pennsylvania related articles, keep it up. As for the the inqusition, it basicaly i dont see eye to eye with how this is run, if your here long enough and watch the operations of the site, you'll see the hipocracy of it. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 19:54, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Pennsylvania

Just was curious over your comments on the food section, was curious if it was partaly in jest. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 08:15, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

oh ok. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 08:38, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

Thank you for the barnstar, though I must say I don't feel I deserve it. There was a vandal going around attacking people's user pages, mine included, all I did was follow him around until he was banned and reverted his work. But thank you very much anyway. Ben W Bell 08:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the feedback

It's nice to know that you found this work valuable and of quality. I haven't been around enough to see your work but I hope to soon. To me, everybody who does good work here is an asset against ignorance, falsehood, and propaganda. That is what I like about open source collaborations.Anacapa 04:18, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ==Arbitration request==

I would like to inform about the Arbitration request concerning the long discussion on Talk:Dutch language.

[The link to the Arbitration request will follow soon, as I have to inform you before posting]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Statement_by_Sander_on_Talk:Dutch_language

Sander 10:39, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Harry Baals

Hello ClairSamoht. I noticed that you did not cite any sources in your Harry Baals article. After a few Google searches, it seems that a number of sentences in the articles are very similar to those in some exernal sites. Please cite the sources you used, and I would encourage you to rewrite some of those sections. Thanks. ~MDD4696 23:42, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of vegetable oils

I've started a page with a more comprehensive list of vegetable oils. I think it would benefit from a bit of structure, but I'm not sure what would work best. We could classify them by source (almond oil, walnut oil and cashew oil all seem to go together...), or by use, or... Any comments or suggestions are more than welcome. Waitak 16:14, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay, now you've done it... you went and made a bunch of concrete suggestions, and I took you up on it. Now you're going to have to go look and see if what I did made any sense. See what you've gotten yourself into? :-) Waitak 10:04, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Just wanted to let you know that I've finished List of vegetable oils. Looking forward to hearing what you think of it. thanks again for your suggestions. Waitak 04:01, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I realize that I'm courting an intervention here... ("back away from the keyboard, sir...") but I, um... kind of kept working on it... a little... I mean, at first it was only an image or two... and then I thought, some comments on the references wouldn't really hurt anybody... it was all in good fun, honest. Then I noticed that there was a lot of red on the page, so I started on... page redirects. Yes, it's true. I made redirects for all of the oil pages that aren't written yet. That's not even the worst of it. I even started[1] using references! Anyway, you can look at the results for yourself. It may be too late for me, but maybe others can be spared my sad fate. Waitak 11:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

  1. ^ Man... refs... they're just so... elegant!

[edit] Duplicate articles

Please don't create duplicate articles like City of Lancaster. Pennsylvania which is a copy of Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Redirect instead. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 03:47, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:BattleOfBrownstown.jpg

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[edit] sandbox

You created an article at ClairSamoht/sandbox but I've moved it to User:ClairSamoht/sandbox, your userspace, just so you know. --W.marsh 19:32, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some new pages

I've recently written Ben oil and Amaranth oil. I also spruced up Behenic acid a bit. My general plan is to move through list of vegetable oils, replacing redirect pages with real pages on oils that don't already have one. I'm pretty far out of my depth here on these subjects, though. Mind taking a quick look to see if they're up to snuff? Your chemistry - and knowledge of fats and oils in particular - is way better than mine. Gotta say that I'm learning an awful lot doing this, though... Thanks! Waitak 12:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:BenDavisRookie.gif

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[edit] Vegetable oils#Waste Vegetable Oil

Nice to see you back in these parts. Waitak 13:28, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of vegetable oils

Just thought you'd be interested in knowing that I've nominated List of vegetable oils for Featured list status. If you're interested, you can lodge a vote or an opinion here. Waitak 12:51, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

As of this morning, List of vegetable oils is a featured list! --Waitak 05:44, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:CiderPress.jpg

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[edit] List of macerated oils

Wonderful! That's a great resource to have. I've moved it to its own article, since the existing list was focused on pressed oils, and had gotten pretty long. I'll have a closer look at the new list when I'm back in front of my own computer in another few hours. Thank you! --Waitak 08:13, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vegetable oil section template?

I've been mulling over an idea for the last few days that I wanted to run by you. There are a lot of articles surrounding the general topic of vegetable oils:

And probably others that I'm not thinking of right now. What would you think of a "section template" that could get added to all of them, as a first step toward tying the whole sorry lot together? The template would go into the top right hand corner of all of the related articles. I realize that it'd all benefit from a reorganization, but that wouldn't be any harder for having put the existing articles into some sort of order.

Here's a first draft of what it might look like: {{Vegetable oils}}

What do you think? --Waitak 08:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Excellent points. Hmmm. There are certain things that I kept running into, again and again, when writing the stubs for the oil pages in preparation for the featured list candidacy. Things like:
  • Major classes of use
  • Places that produce the most
  • Fatty acid composition
  • Smoke point, for cooking oils
Those are more or less off the top of my head, but I'm sure we could abstract out some common set of attributes that apply to a good many oils. We could also leave room for a picture at the top, since there are pictures of the plants from which a good fraction of the oils are derived. Haven't thought about how it might apply to essential oils. My gut feeling is they're sufficiently different to require their own infobox.
Good grief, you've done it again, haven't you?
Oh, by the way... remember that lame attempt at comedic relief that I left in your talk page back in May or so? Well... during the last stage of the FL review, one reviewer asked me to provide sources for a statement that I made in a reference, at the request of another reviewer. I was able to assert with confidence that no, I do not want to put a recursive <ref> call into the article. The similarity to the posting that I left on your talk page was a little scary. --Waitak 15:03, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the comments. Not trying to strongarm you, but would you have time to make the changes you suggested to the template? I think they're all very reasonable. I'd much rather that it not be a one-editor show. I've got to say, I'm absolutely delighted to see discussions going on in the talk page in which I'm not a major participant! --Waitak 03:13, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mackenzie

Thanks for that link - are youi interested in starting a stub or at least correcting the disambig bit? SatuSuro 07:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Essential oil

Someone's removed the essential oil links from the template that I was chatting with you about, saying that essential oil isn't oil. I reverted the changes pending a discussion (but left the template out of Essential oil) for the moment. I'd love to have your view on the question. I've started a talk page so that interested parties can discuss it. --Waitak 15:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vegetable oil versus REAL Vegetable oil

That's an excellent idea. I was trying to look over the whole cluster of articles from the point of view of somebody who cares about something other than vegetable oil (fat). I can see the point, in part, but I'm not sure what to do about it. I think the disambiguation is a good start, anyway. What do you think of the name change of the template? Oh, and I heartily approve of you not learning anything further about divorce. 8-o I've been married almost 27 years now. --Waitak 13:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] WISE TV

Why don't you check with the city of Fort Wayne building department. The building was set to be leased when upon further inspection it was found that there was mold growing in the building. The reason, the new owner of the building turned off the air flow to save money. The building has a very wet crawl space and because of the lack of air flow mold grew on most of the inside walls. Clair knock this off Neighborhood Code Inforcement doesn't condemn buildings the building department does. You sir are a real A-----. WOWO Historian

[edit] Granite Default (WISE TV)

You made an edit stating that Granite had defaulted on its June 1st 2006 payment. This is not true. Actually, they were able to make the payment through a "Senior credit facility". This was kind of a short term loan that made the June payment. But they have to pay it back short term as well. This is where the problem lies right now. They thought with the sale of the San Franscisco station they would pay the short term loan. In any case, as part of an agreement with their creditors they have gone into a restructing agreement which has be done by the end of August. It's complicated but if you go into their stock quotes and look at all the newswire and disclosures you can figure it out. It certainly looks like bankruptcy and it is agreed by most that that may be the next step. This is a mandatory process that resembles bankrupcy but is not legally bankrupcy. [Joseph Blowhard} http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060703/nym043.html?.v=61

[edit] The "WOWO Historian"

This guy likes leaving angry messages, doesn't s/he? I made a pseudo-user page (User:WOWO Historian) to track his/her IP addresses and contributions, and modified your user talk page slightly (sorry). Anyway, be careful he doesn't bait you into violating WP:3RR... I've got WISE-TV on my watchlist, so I'll try to help keep it vandalism-free. --AlexDW 16:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kenneth McKenzie (fur)

There are some 1900's dates mixed in with this article. (I am trying to sort out a Canadian Kenneth McKenzie who was a fur trader and came across your guy.) Happy editing! Stormbay 20:35, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe there is a Manitoba connection with my guy..(as there is with myself). I would have corrected the dates but it would have been on assumption....it all worked out, and, I read another good article.  :-) Stormbay

[edit] Regarding ==Editing other editor's comments==

This is sociological theory. I didn't make this up, yes you have a point, but the best everyone should do is do their best in terms of gender equaltiy.100110100 20:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I asked myself the etymology of person. I searched it up a few months ago found it was from latin, 'persona'. With the case of woman, I guess it was just the addition of the extra first sylable that makes the semantic different.100110100 21:15, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Feminist Dogma

Ok, I looked into the definition of dogma. How is it dogma?100110100 21:19, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

So I have to drop my fight for gender equality.....[?]100110100 01:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Sure you can address me in Hex, if that's convienent! Hhhmmmmm, I see..... I see your point. I guess I should drop my vendetta. It's so unfortunate they don't teach you this in soiciology, or, at least school. Thanks. It feels great to have revolutionized your worldview. Thank you for it.100110100 09:25, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article on soy

Thought you'd want to see this. Waitak 05:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Camille Anderson

Thanks for the help Clair, I will try to put up sufficient number of creidtable references for the article. I knew about how to make those references links still thanks for all the help you offered me.

About Camille Anderson, well I just saw her picture on the site of my ISP and I felt I should read about her here. Didn't know her notability was in doubt.

Well thanks again for help mate, hope to stay in touch.

Unitedroad 16:24, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:ChuckTaylorFirestone.jpg

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[edit] Johnny Appleseed rewrite

Clair, thanks for your work on the Johnny Appleseed article. When it started out it was just a copy of the 1911 Britannica. Note that copyediting is understood to be fixing spelling, grammar, or formatting, without changing the sense of the text, adding to it, or deleting it. Please be more accurate in your edit summaries, to avoid any suggestions that the summaries could be misleading. --Blainster 14:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

I just took a quick look and it seems fine - I made a minor edit (got the refs to list by number - removed the asterisk) and I changed the rating to B (next is Good Article, but that is a separate process that has to be submitted to WP:GA). Two quick ideas - can the businesses be moved to either a separate "list of" article or maybe put in a paragraph (not a list)? Also I would rather have the list of cities, boroughs, Twps, and CDPs back in the article and the nav box (template) gone if I had to choose. I will look at it more closely and try to add the decennial census figures (from 1900 on tonight). Ruhrfisch 12:43, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I read it more closely and like the changes (I also like that you took a lot of the list-y things out of the Pennsylvania article and made them separate lists / articles). I made the census table quickly and put it in so you could format. In theory it could be extended to include data from before 1900, but I need a source to do that. I also put the city, boroughs, Twps, and CDPs back in as every other PA county article has them, and moved the map down. I took the nav box / template out but Verruckte Dan (who made all the AP templates and put them on all gazillion articles) put it back. I think the Poitics history section could be axed and put partly into the History section (especially Buchanan and Stevens). Refs can likely be found for most of the notable residents on their articles. If the unreferenced sections can be cleaned up, I think it is fairly close to submitting for WP:GA.[[
By the way the maps look harder to do than they are - http://factfinder.census.gov has very tweakable maps (I copied them and then colored and labeled them). I found the PA Dept of Ed maps as a check and the PA Tax lists of school districts by county online too - let me know if you still need these links. I started doing PA school district maps to replace 4 copy vio maps I found and turned in at WP:PUI and wound up doing all PA counties with more than one school district in them. I agree on Wikipedia - if you are going to do something on it, do it right. Take care, Ruhrfisch 04:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks again for all your work on Lancaster County. I also like the Dart article, but may try tweaking the non-related people section (the info on the two non-related folks is fine, but it seems like too much on them for the article on something they have nothing to do with except accidentally have the same last name). I would not pay for the census data - a free library must have it if the museum does (this from someone who has bought books and maps for article research). The Ohio decennial census data back as far as it goes for each county is on the web, but from Ohio govt. publications. I tried moving the map down and reducing the number of columns in Townships. I must admit I never check articles at other than my computer's resolution. If the map is much smaller than 300 pixels wide it is hard to read any of it (although it can always be clicked on). Could the films be moved to the PA films article, with a (Lancaster County) identifier following them? I am facing a lot of work in the real world, and so will be editing a bit, but not as much as I would like - a semi wiki-break (although I will still check my watchlist and talk page). Enough random thoughts. Take care, Ruhrfisch 21:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I made some little edits to Lancaster Co. and the Dart Container articles - hopefully they are OK. Thanks for moving the comments on LC to an archive - I like the message left there. I have been through WP:GA and a peer review. It is useful to look at some articles undergoing peer review and Featured Article candidates to get an idea what they will object to / want cleaned up / want added. The lead paragraph should mention every section in some way. Let me know how I can help - I will check my talk and watchlists. Keep up the good work, Ruhrfisch 02:14, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I cleaned up the political tables - introduced the Congressional District red link (sorry), but there are articles on several of the PA congressional districts as models. FA candidates seem to have more books as refs and some books may also address your concerns. I think the flavor of Lancaster Co. could come from Lancaster Co. / Amish / PA Dutch cookbook(s) maybe[1]. The "Garden Spot" book (the top ref I added) looks as if it addresses at least some of your additional concerns, especially 1 and 3 - it has a picture of a horse and buggy in front of WalMart on the cover, and the first page is about how an Amish boy is married to the land at age 10. There is probably some tourist guide for Lancaster Co that may address 1 as well. I must confess I am not entirely sure what the "puppy controversy" is - I assume that farming is like owning a puppy - it is yours for life? (I know on the West Branch Susquehanna there was an Amish puppy mill farmer who was sent to jail, but I don't think that is it.) I also wonder if books on the Amish today might have something about 3 and 4 (anti-plain sentiment). I will see if I can make a Congressional District stub. If I have time I will also make school district stubs.
By the way, I had a peer review for Larrys Creek and it took almost a month. I am going to add a few things to it and submit it for FA. Reading other peer reviews (and the FA guidlelines) was very helpful. Ruhrfisch 03:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I took the plunge and nominated Larrys Creek for FA today. Took way more time than I planned - got nice feedback from one person so far, but two things they said were to expand the Name section and add more on pollution (thought you might think that was funny given your earlier comment on my kitchen sink approach to the article). When I write articles to fill in red links they also tend to be stubby - see Lycoming Valley Railroad (it crosses Larrys Creek) or the 7 other railroads mentioned in that article, or Great Shamokin Path (it crossed...). If you want I can add watershed and railroad info to Lancaster County. Is there a good general history of the county? That might be useful as a ref. Also there are two refs with no text showing in the bottom (#20 and #45). As for the puppy mills, can you quote from newspaper / magazine articles that give both sides? That is one way to be NPOV (give all POV). Sounds as if it may be harder to find the pro-amish side. Here's a model PA Congressional district article Pennsylvania's 8th congressional district. Hope you feel better and rest well, take care, Ruhrfisch 03:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DSL, ADSL

Hi, just wanted to say thanks for answering my question! Ryancolm 08:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] Re: Pennsylvania

D'Oh!!!! Thanks for catching my error on the Quick Facts racial data being from 2004. Someday I must learn to read. I like the new Tourism section on Lancaster County - do you want me to add a few sentences on rivers and railroads (besides Strasburg RR on the tourist trap part)? I also wondered if we could get pictures of some of the unique rural things you mentioned (the buggy stand at WalMart, etc.)? I can look in Commons or could ask on WikiProject PA if anyone is near to get a picture... Take care, Ruhrfisch 21:08, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

  • I reverted the PA demographics vandal - let me know if you run into potential WP:3RR trouble. Take care, Ruhrfisch 01:16, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
    • I left a note on the PA demographics vandal's talk page and said to cite refs. They did - the difference is white vs. white non hispanic. I have not reverted - seems like the best thing is to list both. I have asked on WikiProject US Counties if there is a standard on census data but got no reply. I wonder if the changing IP address is just a function of the "vandal's" ISP? Take care, Ruhrfisch 03:49, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

I like the expanded history section - one question, the Wyoming Massacre link is to the July 3, 1778 massacre, not the 1760's one. I am not sure if Paxton, PA should link to Paxtang, PA or one of the Paxton Townships in Dauphin County (they split the original Paxton Twp into Upper, Middle, and Lower Twps.) (and that sentence in the article needs to be cleaned up a bit). I like the census data - congrats for finding it online. I also like the chart comparing population growth you made, but would identify the US vs LC by color in the caption. I am still working on rivers and transportation (rail and highway).

I am not sure what else to photograph - you had mentioned the cow cam and auctions too. Are there common images - a buggy along a road? Some of the food you mentioned? I put a Fraktur image in, and there are others that could be added to the article. There is one of the Paxton Boys massacre already on WP for that part, or several possible on WP of Buchanan or Stevens or Wheatland. Whatever you photograph, don't 'shoot' Cheney either - he shoots back ;-). Ruhrfisch 04:22, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

  • I see you reverted our LC 'friend' (after I reverted him earlier today). I'll be the carrot (User talk:164.156.228.229) and you be the stick. ;-) My real life is crazy / busy right now, so more later. Take care, Ruhrfisch 21:07, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Larrys Creek made Featured Article today - I promise to do the LC rivers, highways and railroads soon. Keep up the good work, Ruhrfisch 04:01, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: ==Regarding ==Artisan== ==

Cool, thanks for the reply. Nice seeing you to. Is this account your sock puppet?100110100 07:22, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I've checked out the definition, but I don't see where it says that 'craftsman' is genderneutral.100110100 07:29, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey I see that your back, congrats on your award! No comment on the above?100110100 06:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Hey!!!!?????...........!!!!!! Are you there?!?!?!?!100110100 05:00, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Huh, what, perit? Huh, '...person is masuline...'?????? Sorry, by the way for my unrully behaviour. But regarding the definition, I did't se where it says that 'craftsman' is genderneutral.100110100 09:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Well actor is masculine, actress is feminine. The thing is certain suffixes and prefixes mean male, and others mean female.100110100 09:46, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Caving in

I've thrown in the towel on the Plant oils/Vegetable oils issue. I've basically become convinced that there isn't an ideal solution, and this one is less likely to attract flak than most of the others. Sigh. I didn't rename {{Vegetable oils}}, but I did change the title to Plant oils. There's probably a bit more mop-up to do, but that'll happen along the way, I suppose. Sigh, again. Waitak 10:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Rusty Plow award

The Rusty Plow
Enlarge
The Rusty Plow

Thanks for your work removing vandalism and spam from the Amish article. In the Amish spirit of Demut, I hereby award you the rusty plow.

[edit] thanks!

Thanks so much for the donut star - my first award - unfortunately the image isn't showing up :-( Ruhrfisch 11:41, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

  • The picture is there now and luckily it is lunch time as I am now hungry for donuts for some reason. Thanks again and keep up the good work. I got a ton of historcial RR info from User:Choess for LC. Ruhrfisch 15:46, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
    • I added a lot to the Geography section - can also add something on rocks etc if you think it is worth it (and the historical RR will be beefed up considerably). I will work on stubs for the red link creeks - Conowingo is so small I can delete it if you think no one knows it. Let me know what you think and edit away, Ruhrfisch 04:53, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
      • I appreciate all you do. I made starts (a step above stubs) for Chickies Creek and Cocalico Creek, and Choess I see has made a stub for Conowingo Creek. I will add stuff to that and make any other creek redlinks into starts hopefully tomorrow, then start working on all the PA Highways I dumped into the article (thanks for catching my name error and fixing it all 21 or however many times). The highways in Larrys Creek are stubs I made so I will use those as models and they have decent refs (online too), although I think back then I was still putting refs into External Links if they were online. I keep forgetting to offer this, but I have the javascript for running the automated peer review, so if you ever want to see what LC or any other article would get at WP:PR, ask and I will put it into a subdirectory for you. Take care and keep up the good work, Ruhrfisch 03:54, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Licensing on perl script in US Demographics

Hello! You put this in the script code:

# This script is NOT subject to the GNU Free Documentation
# License, as it expressly prohibits alteration, and this
# script will be useless if NOT altered.

I'm not sure terminology will work that seems to forbid any changes to the page. WP is against any "no derivatives" licensing, or licensing for WP only. As the edit page says: If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it. Gimmetrow 11:50, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, I guess you know what you're doing. I'm just going this off WP discussions I've had about images I wanted to license forbidding derivative works. Here I took "it" to refer to the script license. Gimmetrow 21:54, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

There are now 52 pages linking to the template including the state project page, so I think they're all in. I noticed that you split the fields in the files based on the quotes rather than commas. Numbers less than 1000 aren't in quotes, so these numbers get missed. Not a big deal, but for instance District of Columbia#Demographics should list around 0.14% for NHPI. CSV parsing modules like this one could be used. If the numbers are parsed right, it leads to another question. It may be interesting that hispanic NHPI forms .03% of DC, but it might be misleading to note this grew -34% (176 to 115). Perhaps the $base should be at least 200 or 500 ? Gimmetrow 17:39, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] North Dakota

I notice that in at least this North Dakota article where you just added a template demographics table, the state and national tables now everlap so one table cannot be completely read. Please check all states and fix. Thanks Hmains 21:48, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Barnstar of Diligence

The Barnstar of Diligence
To ClairSamoht: for diligent and numerous contributions of the highest quality to a wide variety of articles, especially Lancaster County and Pennsylvania, and for building a better encyclopedia by constantly adding references and removing unreferenced junk. Given in grateful admiration by Ruhrfisch 02:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wagoner's Curse on the Railroad

If confirmation can be found that this is linked to the Philadelphia and Columbia, it would actually make the perfect transition. "As one of the first railroads in Pennsylvania, the Philadelphia and Columbia was not universally welcomed. It was bitterly opposed by many local farmers for destroying the wagoning business, ruining the farms it crossed, and bringing in rowdy Irish immigrants as construction laborers, circumstances commemerated in the folksong The Wagoner's Curse on the Railroad. Among the peculiarities of railroading in those early days was that the railroad was regarded as a sort of public highway..." (Then go on to mention the use of horses on the P&C until 1844.) The picture is great — after all, the Strasburg Railroad is probably Lancaster County's most famous railroad. Choess 04:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Minnesota Demographics

Hello CS: I have posted a discussion topic on Talk: Minnesota concerning the demographics table you added by your recent edit. Would you care to weigh in on it? (I don't think the table is as user-friendly as the former list but I want to see what you as the editor and others have to say on it.) Thanks for your input. Kablammo 04:25, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recharge

It is easy to get burnt out - a break (even reduced activity) is good to both recharge your batteries and to allow some perspective / distance on articles (after not looking much at something for a week or so, I am amazed at what I find to clean up). It is also good to find things you really like to do - for me that is making creek articles or making them better. The two starts I made last night took me less than an hour but did me a world of good. Take care and take care of yourself, Ruhrfisch 12:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Quick question - I am bogged down in trying to name articles on the two Conewago Creeks (Lancaster / Dauphin border, plus Adams and York across the Susquehanna). Do locals differentiate between them in any way that you know of? Their mouths are less than two miles apart on opposite banks of the Susquehanna. See here for discussion: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Rivers#Naming_Help I finally sorted out Chiques/Chickies Creek and put pictures on some others in LC (all with covered bridges). Thanks in advance, Ruhrfisch 03:17, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Thanks very much - I also did not know until I checked that there were two Conewago Creeks (and of course USGS lists Conewago as an alternate name for Conowingo Creek). Even my usually reliable 1984 Pennsylvania Gazzetteer of Streams omits one of them in the index (though not the book itself - I am sure they thought it was a repetition typo and axed one). I may try making one article and see how it works. I think both are named for the Conewago rapids in the Susquehanna River (just downstream of Three Mile Island) as the name means at the rapids and their mouths are there. The problem I see is if I do one article, someone will come along and propose splitting it and then give us some horrendous name like Conewago Creek (Susquehanna River Tributary, right bank, mouth in York County, Pennsylvania). Everyone I ask says try one article, so even I sometimes see the point. I love the name Cocalico, by the way. As for Chickies Creek, I prefer that spelling as it also gives the pronunciation better. I go by USGS as it is a standard I can point to, but not always one I agree with (I think Larry's Creek is a better name, but there are only 5 USGS names with apostrophes, one is Martha's Vineyard). OK, off to bed. Take care and thanks, Ruhrfisch 04:19, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
      • I like the Lancaster County, Pennsylvania schools page. Do you want to add two sentences to the table section explaining what the PSSA and SAT tests are (especially for non-PA and non-USA folk)? I am a little unclear on two things: 1) two levels (making Progress and Warning) are both described as one step below meeting standards. Is this right? 2) I am very unclear on what the numbers in parentheses are for, i.e. "Burrowes School (10/13)". As far as the school district pages themselves, I try to put in the townships and boroughs served. Looking at this I found a small error in my Lancaster County municipalities map, so I will fix that next (left a label for York County in by mistake). I made the Conewago Creek dab page (which took a lot longer than it should have) and the Conewago Creek (east) page (I put lots in it so no one could argue it is not notable). Still need to make the Conewago Creek (west) page, which will be stubbier. Then I will work on LC highway stubs and the native american trails. When do you want to put LC up for good article? I think it would make it easy, although it needs to be stable (not lots of recent major changes). Also Peer Review would be great before FA. I think I said this before, but I have the software to do the semiautomated peer review if you want to try a pre-test before the real thing. I could not find the Washington Boro page on the German Wikipedia - is it the PA Dutch Wikipedia by chance [2]? Hope you got some rest, and take care, Ruhrfisch 15:32, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
        • The software is javascript that produces the templates, so when you paste the semi automated peer review result into a new page (your sandbox or other subpage) it comes up as the automated peer review suggestions. When I installed it I found a more detailed description on AndyZ's talk page, but here's the link User:AndyZ/peerreviewer.js and ask if this is not obvious (with 5 servers it is probably very clear to you ;-)). I can try to remember how I did it (you have to add it to your monobook skin). Whenever I edit, "peer review" appears to the right of "log out". I looked over Johnny Appleseed - learned a lot, and may do a few copyedits if I get the chance.
        • I think one reason why I se the cite templates for refs is that they are hard to argue with. Ruhrfisch 01:44, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Johnny Appleseed

Don't worry about it, I received plenty of those error messages myself today, and I also nearly overwrote my own edits in the Orson Scott Card article, so I understand completely :) --Lethargy 00:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Warning

Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, unconstructive edits, such as those you made to Georgia (U.S. state), are considered vandalism. If you continue in this manner you may be blocked from editing without further warning. Please stop, and consider improving rather than damaging the hard work of others. Thanks.

You should know better by now. --Storkk 03:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trails

I can work on it, it is just that it has to go on a backburner for now. I also worry as most of the paths would be redlinks needing stubs (like the LC PA Route highway stubs haunting my dreams). Plus I have Lycoming County path starts to write or fix (Wyalusing trail is pure copyvio from Wallace's book). If I make a paths article, my understanding is that a summary (a few sentences) is left in the article if there is a see bigger article tag.

I am leaning more towards 2 articles for the 2 Conewagos - thanks for your offer to institute a merge, but I think I will decline. I am frazzled. More later, Ruhrfisch 03:43, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

PS I made three paths / trails articles so far: Culbertson's Path, Great Island Path, and Great Shamokin Path Ruhrfisch 03:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Olivesburg, Ohio

Thank you vey much for your work on Olivesburg, Ohio. It is very much improved from the version with a speedy tag from a few days ago. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 23:07, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lynne Thigpen

Hey, thanks for your comments....Yeah, it's pretty hard not to just RAVE about her. It still makes me sad that she's gone. NickBurns 12:18, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pennsylvania

No need for thanks, it's my pleasure. "Country" Bushrod Washington 19:47, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My sock master

You know, that's the first time I've ever actually laughed out loud at a comment in Wikipedia. Keep up the splendid work. --Pussy Galore 23:03, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A little late

I am little late, but I responded to your point on Wikipedia talk:What is a good article?. I'd like to hear your point-of-view. Thanks. RelHistBuff 08:44, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pennsylvania Sports and Recreation

Hey. Since I deleted much of what was, no doubt, an exhaustively researched section about the many, many motor-sports arenas in Pennsylvania, and since you are among the most frequent editors of the Pennsylvania page, I figured it would be only fair of me to give an explanation.

In short, the Sport & Recreation section is, in my opinion, poorly written, and detracts from the page itself. It comes across as nothing more than a list of racetracks. A major rewrite is needed.

Some ideas:

I would create two sections; “Professional Sports” and “Recreation” (the two together is far too broad for a single section). I would do away with the table of professional teams – it’s a nice concept, but makes any subsequent discussion of the teams seem redundant. Instead I would have a paragraph that starts something like this:

“Pennsylvania is home many professional sports teams, including the Philadelphia Eagles and the Pittsburgh Steelers of the National Football League . . . (listing all of the major league teams and their respective conferences). . . . These teams have won a combined 5 Super Bowls, x World Series Champions, x National League Pennants. . . .” Et cetera.

Something along those lines. I would include a link to a list of professional sports teams in Pennsylvania, which would then include everything which is currently listed in the table.

As far as the motor-sports section, a claim that motor-sports are popular in the state deserves a citation. I dispute the idea that it is more popular than all of those other sports (Okay, I only dispute the idea that it is more poplar than Football). As far as the list of raceways goes, how about something like this:

“Notable raceways in Pennsylvania include the Pocono Raceway, host to the Pennsylvania 500 and the Pocono 500. . . . ” Et cetera.

We could do this with every notable raceway. That way, the list will be limited to only those notable enough to host marquee events, which would an easy test that would separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. Again, we could if needed, include a link to all raceways in Pennsylvania.

Or we could do as you say about making a separate page for professional sports. Nonetheless, I would still have a few token words about them on the main page.

As for recreation, I would broaden the scope of it. Include not only amusement parks, but perhaps places like Allegheny National Forest, Ringing Rocks, the Civil War Museum, Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area, Gettysburg, Presque Isle State Park, et cetera. There are tons of places like this in the state; hence why it is deserving on its own category.

Now, these are only a few ideas. I’m not throwing this all on you; as I get the time, I intend to work on rewriting this entire section. Don’t expect anything necessarily soon, but I will try to work on it when I can. I’ll probably do it in my Sandbox, so you can check my progress if you want.

I appreciate the fact that you want to make the Pennsylvania article the best it can be, and I also appreciate all of the effort you put into looking up all of those rinky-dink raceways and the like. Your efforts are laudable, and you deserve thanks for all of your highly constructive edits. However, this article needs a thoughtful look at Sport and Recreation, not a big fat list that blurs together upon reading it.

Keep up the good work. "Country" Bushrod Washington 05:28, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Majority-minority state

I can appreciate your desire to add information to the article, but why did you remove the section that discussed historical black majorities in southern states? This is entirely valid information, and I would appreciate if you would restore it. Cheers! bd2412 T 05:21, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hans Herr

You rv'ed my minor edit to the Lancaster County, Pennsylvania page, saying "That reference doesn't support the fact that he was mennonite, but that it's the oldest surviving building." But the reference in question, http://www.hansherr.org/, says in its first content paragraph: "Both Hans Herr and Christian Herr were bishops of the Mennonite faith." Could you please explain (or undo) your speedy deletion in light of this? --ScottMainwaring 19:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Johnny Appleseed

Glad to copyedit JA (and LC schools) a bit and hope I did not mess anything up. I might try rewording the JA use of pack animals / conversion sentence as the way it is now worded seems to me to be a bit too close to Original Research. I originally did more copy edits and got an edit conflict so I just went back and did the most memorable ones section by section - I will take a look at it again when I can and see if anything else could use a pass of the editing sandpaper to smooth its edges (one time being abrasive is good). Sorry to be slow responding - conked out last night and feel as if I am getting a cold now. Take care, Ruhrfisch 21:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Why do you keep reverting to remove the link to the film of the same name (Johnny Appleseed (film)? The alternative would be to have Johnny Appleseed as a dab page, with links to what would become Johnny Appleseed (person) and Johnny Appleseed (film)... but a simple "see also" would seem to be the best approach, I feel. Robwingfield (talk) 15:45, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gee, thanks...

...I am very pleased and quite surprised to hear that, as I usually consider myself a rather "too fast shooter" and a stubborn person, and I found it rather hard to express my intentions clearly in this very discussion and not have them obscured by the overabundance of detail. I was also wondering whether you have been reading the last fragment of my discussion with Pschemp - I admit I was quite upset by her tone and behavior, and perhaps let the emotions take over... I decided to leave it like it is to see the reactions of the others, so what is yours? Bravada, talk - 03:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Clair, seems like your WikiStress level got even higher than mine... Anyway, I understand you totally, sometimes being 100% right and having sound logics behind you you still find it hard to win on WP. I believe WP has been founded and is run by intelligent people, however (otherwise I wouldn't waste another sleepless night on it), and all will be good in the end, we must just stay strong and rechtop in de wind, as the Dutch would say (this is in reply to your Gilbert and Sullivan list, which I didn't quite get what it is, I've only seen Pirates of Penzance once on video... :D ). I left some comments on the talk page, as I cannot imagine what else I could do to support you. Let's just take a deep breath and not let emotions overbear us... Bravada, talk - 04:55, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Assume Good Faith

Could I ask you to Assume Good Faith? I've just noticed the following as a result of your AfD on Johnny Appleseed (2007 film):

Been having a problem with another user. I have Johnny Appleseed up for GA, and another user just created a page called Johnny Appleseed (film), about a film which was never made and will never be made. He put a seealso at the top of the page, and I added a section to the bottom of the page, talking about people trading on JA's name, moving it there. He put another seealso at the top, and I finally figured out that he wanted a disambig notice, so I put one there, and took a look at the other article, looked at what's out there, and found out it's NN. I rewrote the JA(f) article to be about the 1948 Disney cartoon. Then he comes along, moves that page to "JA film (1948)", and hijacks the "JA (film)" page as a redirect to his "JA film (2007)" page.
Best as I can figure, this clown is trying to get a nice mention in Wikipedia because he has a financial interest in dumping the script onto some sucker. I've augmented the page he did with a ton of detail, mostly pointing out that the film project has been deader than a doornail for a couple of years, and it'll never get made. I've AFD'd it, but this clown is really annoying me. Like I said, I have a little list....
Hey, if you have five minutes to spare, take a quick look at Johnny Appleseed, and tell me if I've missed anything. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 04:14, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I created the article as a result of looking at the main Johnny Appleseed article, and doing a small amount of research found that there was an upcoming film of the same name. IMDB lists the film as due for release next year. Maybe I didn't do enough research - I hold my hands up to that. I won't challenge the AfD as I actually agree with you, but what I don't appreciate is you vandalising the page, and making personal attacks as above - please see WP:NPA. I'm not a clown. I have no financial interest in the script. If you look at my user page, you'll see I'm a Systems Designer for a financial company. Not a film executive! I don't appreciate your personal comments above, so please could you try to be a bit more civil in future, and actually explain to people why you disagree with what they've done, rather than just plough right over what they've done, then insult them behind their backs. Kind regards... Robwingfield (talk) 09:00, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:ConestogaWS-logo.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:ConestogaWS-logo.gif. Wikipedia gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Wikipedia, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 03:05, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Hi Clair, I saw this and put a speedy delete tag on the image. See Template:db. Ruhrfisch 03:32, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More Lancaster County

I will work on LC highway stubs next and put infoboxes on the LC creeks without them (although only Conestoga R. seems likely to have discharge info as it seems to be the only one with a USGS stream gauge). I got a Did You Know out of Conewago Creek (west), so that made up for some of the hassle of 1 vs 2 articles and what to name them. I will also put State Forest and state parks (Susquehannock) and State Game Lands on LC in a few sentences. Most of the Native American paths radiated out from the village of Conestoga, so that is how to start that section - will work on it too. Probably a paragraph on paths in LC and where they ultimately lead, with links to the articles detailing each path, esp. outside LC.

PedanticallySpeaking, founder of the Ohio Twp project, is checking the state register on Kelleys Island so we should know soon. Since the official Erie Co. page does not list it as a twp, I think it is at best a former twp now absorbed into the village. Take care, Ruhrfisch 15:28, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Added a protected areas section to LC, made a start for Susquehannock State Park so no redlink. Tweak away. Do you think I need to go and look up where all the State Game Lands are and add their townships (wikilinked of course)? Ruhrfisch 01:58, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Indiana

FYI: Your recent copyediting of the Indiana article removed any reference to African-Americans from the Demographics section. BlankVerse 00:37, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I only ended up on the Indiana page only because an anon editor had edited the demographics data in the Los Angeles, California article. As I traced back their vandalism, I found that they had done the same thing to a couple of small Indiana cities, as well as the state article.
My initial guess had been that you had not noticed the vandalism when you had done your edits, and had inadvertently lost the data for African-Americans in your rewrite.
The percentage of African-Americans is 8.6% [3], making them by far the largest minority group in a fairly monochromatic state. BlankVerse 09:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dillersville

FYI, the "Google ratio" of Dillerville to Dillersville is 986/184, all of which appear to refer to the town or the road leading to the town. Choess 04:43, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Some days, it seems like the world hasn't read the Manual of Style, doesn't it? ;-) At least it's better than the variations on Chiques Creek. I take it from the boxcar photo that you're a Lancaster-area resident? Choess 07:48, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I'll be dang. Never seen a fleaker before. Come to think, I'll have to hit up the Fisher rep for one of the "Caffeine" mugs when I get a chance. Anyway, I'm afraid I'm not quite that familiar with Lancaster — I grew up in Chesco, in mushroom country, but I'm now in exile beyond Hudson for graduate school. Dad and I go railfanning in the Lancaster area sometimes when I visit home, so perhaps we'll bring something off yet. It's been a pleasure to fall in with you and Ruhrfisch here; your dedication to *quality* articles really shows, and it's tremendously inspiring. Choess 08:12, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the kind words - I agree that it is a pleasure working with the two of you. Turns out there was an orphan fleaker stub, so I linked it, took a picture of some fleakers in lab and added that and a ref (for Clair ;-)), as well as expanded the article a bit. Just curious, can you guess what state and county I am in? Ruhrfisch 04:12, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
    • I think we all need userboxes that say "This user is an extraterrestrial who passed PChem and is therefore fairly intelligent, willing to work hard, and highly motivated. Surrender to me or risk having your species domesticated for agricultural purposes" ;-D Ruhrfisch 00:25, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
    • PS Did you ever get the javascript for Peer Review to work? It is in my page here User:Ruhrfisch/monobook.js and I found the directions again: "add {{subst:js|User:AndyZ/peerreviewer.js}} to your User:ClairSamoht/monobook.js, and while editing an article click on the peer review link right next to the log out button (the responses come in template form though", so you have to paste them into a page to see what they are). Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch 01:03, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
    • PPS As king of citations, what do you think of waht I did here: Allegheny Islands State Park (last ref)? Chemistry articles cite Personal Communications all the time, but I was not sure about WP. Ruhrfisch 01:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
      • Glad to hear the automated Peer Review is working. I will take the information back out of the article and ask that the parks update their webpage so it is 'published' or let me know where this has been published (if it has been). Sigh. Thanks, and take careRuhrfisch 03:32, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: IT

Yeah, I had a feeling I was leaving out at least one qualifier. I was about to just say "gender-neutral pronoun", but they works in that case, and what I really meant was "standard gender-neutral third person singular pronoun that can refer to a person". —Keenan Pepper 19:49, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:EL

Hello again Clair,

Appreciating your no-fuss and principle-based approach to discussing Wikipedia policies, guidelines and such, as well as your tough stance on attempts to dilute the aims and principles of WP, I would like to invite you to join the discussion on the External Links guideline that is currently going on, and taking a dangerous course, being dominated by users wanting to relax rather than tighten the requirements regarding those and subject them even more to users' subjective decisions. As we see increasing amount of linkspam around, I believe there is a need for more users to take part in this discussion to prevent any changes in the guideline that would have potentially catastrophic consequences.

Regards, Bravada, talk - 04:11, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why do you people do these things to me

In all fairness, I'll try to be reasonable here. Please explain to me (on my talk page, if you would) why you arbitrarily failed FLCL with no review of quality. -Litefantastic 18:10, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Understood. Thank you - I'll be back. -Litefantastic 22:43, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
    • You've crossed the line from criticism to harassment. If you think you can do a better job editing this article, then do it. I deleted the trivia section because it was (almost) totally unverified. Nobody else was looking for references, and I have a real life to attend to when I'm not tinkering with what used to be a fun hobby. My solution was a poor one, but it was a solution. User:Gwern wants to see the trivia section kept, which is fine, but he/she has made no response to my offer for he/she to actually look into them. I read your comments. I tried to be polite (I'll admit it was a rather strained attempt, but I tried). I'll admit I didn't try hard enough, but this was supposed to be a hobby, dammit. I was motivated by the fact that I enjoyed doing this. I tried to push Duck and Cover to FA, and they knocked me down, but they were polite about it. I quit. -Litefantastic 01:48, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply from Seicer

No problem, I suspected that :) Happy editing! Seicer (talk) (contribs) 03:08, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Pennsylvania

There are four articles being threatened by a merge proposal. The details are listed here Wikipedia:WikiProject_Pennsylvania#Announcements. Would you mind weighing in (hopefully in support) of keeping the articles. --evrik 01:41, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cradle of Liberty Council

I removed your tag from the article. Before you slap it back on there, please explain on the talk page why you think the article has troubles. It5 may not be the best written article ... but I don't know if it has the NPOV problems you alleged. --evrik 13:48, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Paths

Hi Clair, a start at a Lancaster County Native American paths article / section is here. Comments are welcome - it would probably fit in the historical roads part of Choess' article on Transportation in LC (as I follow Wallace in trying to list modern highways that follow these paths). I still have a fair amount to add, but wanted some feedback. I also left this message on Choess' talk page. Take care, Ruhrfisch 04:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Congrats on JA's GA and thanks - I have one more Conestoga path to add (Paxtang Path north to Harrisburg and on to Shamokin) plus several other little paths. I agree it needs a map, but part of the problem is how big to make the map. Should it just show LC and have room around the edges for arrows labeled "to Philadelphia", "to Harrisburg", etc. or should it try to show the destinations? If it is that big (Frederick, MD in SW, Philly E, Shamokin N) then it will be hard to show detail in LC. I am leaning towards a small map (LC only) as the focus of the article is LC. Then the question becomes am I adding too much detail outside LC (compare Great Minquas and Monocacy Paths). It also seems that if I am making a map for this, there should probably be one for railroads and another for highways. Highways are easier as I can use Census maps. Modern RR are on the census maps as well, but not historic ones. I can use Wallace's maps as a basis for NA Paths maps, but would need more info for a RR map. Another alternative is to just make a large locator map for LC with every place mentioned in the article on it and the creeks and river. Then people could look at that and mentally add the routes of the paths, highways, and RRs. I have been and will be pretty busy with life outside of WP, so this will be slow (especially a new map). I did send you my 'IRS info' via this. Let me know if you did not get it and I will try other means. As far as Conestogas / Susquehannocks / Minquas / Andastes, I try to avoid redirects so I used Susquehannocks. No one knows what they called themselves, so maybe we should just translate all of their names into English and call them the "treacherous people of the muddy river at the place of the immersed pole" (still doesn't work as I can't find the meaning of Andaste). Oh well. Thanks, Ruhrfisch 13:07, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
    • I added to the Frog page - let me know what you think. I like the idea of expanding the refs for LC (date accessed, etc.) and think it can only help the article. Would you want to go full tilt and use cite web? Also are you going to go for FA on Johnny Appleseed? Let me know if you got my email, otherwise I will send my IRS details some other way. Take care, Ruhrfisch 04:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
      • I looked at maps more closely and changed the Conestoga location description a fair amount, hopefully making it clearer, plus some general cleanup. If you look at the PennDot LC map, there is an Indiantown in Manor Twp, and it is about 4 miles SW of Millersville. This Indiantown is also on the USGS GNIS system, so I added it (but not its latitude and longitude). Native American villages tended to wander over time according to Wallace (there is one he won't even try to locate on maps in western PA). They also changed names sometimes, so Shamokin (village) became Fort Augusta, and is Sunbury, Pennsylvania today, but is not in the same place as Shamokin, Pennsylvania, although they are all in the same county (Northumberland). I can think of two ways to do the map - one is a Lancaster County only map with every place named in the paths and Choess' trains, canals and roads article (which this will become a part of), plus named Creeks and the Susquehanna of course (so the reader could look at the map to see the course of a path or RR via mental dot to dots but it would not be marked as such). The other is a regional map for just the paths showing northern MD and DE, and much of SE PA, with the paths drawn in by hand and major places for paths marked (Lancaster, York, Conestoga, Gap, Peach Bottom) but not all places marked. I think I prefer the former as it would be just one map and there is a program I want to try that gives you a map with accurate dots with labels if you enter the coordinates and name for the label.
      • Hope your FSCK went well. Before you put JA up as a FAC, I would get a peer review (it is expected) and write a new lead section which has no or very few refs in it - it is like an abstract on a chemical pub and refers to all important things in the article. Every header / subheader should be mentioned in the lead in a sentence or phrase. If you want I can also look it over again for minor copyedits. Ganymede is boring so I am thinking of moving to Europa (in Missouri, of course) [4]. Then even I won't be able to find me. Take care, Ruhrfisch 18:35, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
        • My frog is done. It needs to be cleaned up a bit probably, and I want to try and put where canals and RR followed paths. If you have the time and inclination, any thoughts on maps would be appreciated, as would proofing it. Also for your very long term to do list: if you happen to be tooling around LC and are near them and want to take pictures of Chickies Rock, Conewago Creek (east) (or west) and Conowingo Creek, that would be helpful for those articles. No hurry though. Take care, Ruhrfisch 04:49, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Magnets

I do seem to attract them don't I. It's like when I sit in the park and feed the ducks, all the local loons seem to come out of the woodwork and sit beside me. If I had a pound for everytime someone told me they had a nuclear bomb in their taty old bag I've at least be a few pounds richer. :) Ben W Bell talk 07:05, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jack Moran edits

I'm curious why, when you reverted the recent vandalism to Jack Moran, you chose to revert my edits also? All I had done was to improve the formatting of the article, return the name John E. Moran (removed in an older act of vandalism), correct a couple of obvious errors, and make a few other unobjectionable additions. What was your rationale for undoing those changes? --ShelfSkewed 13:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I had a feeling that was the case. All better now. I'm still researching the John/Jack/Jackie connection. No luck yet. --ShelfSkewed 03:43, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Georgia & Scots Irish

Have a look at the Southern Dialect article, the Scots Irish article, and the Southern USA article. This information is consistent with them. Ultron Hubbard 21:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Texas hold 'em

Clair - Thanks for your quick review of texas hold 'em. I don't know if your still watching that page or not, but I have left a few comments/questions on the talk page. Could you take a look at them when you get a chance? Thanks! --best, kevin [kzollman][talk] 03:52, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Face value

Thank you for explaining what was going on with the Face value page. Very helpful. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Riedl (talk • contribs).

[edit] Your cite position

Is quite insulting. Insinuating that scientists aren't writing articles with resources by their side is pretty ridiculous. I write with something close to 200 resources by my side. Demanding that we cite elementary facts is preposterous, presumptuous, and ignorant when one could find the fact in the majority of these references and they are listed at the bottom of the article. You have this fanciful vision that every Wikipedia editor should be paraphrasing and quoting sources when that's not how encyclopedic writing happens. Frankly, if you don't broaden your horizons and take a look at science and math articles at Wikipedia and how they are written, I don't think your comments deserve consideration. --ScienceApologist 17:53, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Wow, you really don't get it. What's the big deal about inline-citing 100 references? Why don't you try it sometime. --ScienceApologist 18:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
You don't understand. I'm not saying I have 100 in-line references. I'm saying I have 100 sources for a single fact. --ScienceApologist 18:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm telling you that one source per fact is not okay when there are hundreds of possible sources from which to choose. Single-source attribution acts effectively as an edorsement and advertisement for the source chosen by the editor, it is amateurish and is in violation of relevant Wikipedia policies regarding neutrality. This problem with citing common knowledge facts has been acknowledged by editors in science and math related articles for some time. It would be best that you dealt with it directly rather than going off on tangents about how we don't want the rules applying to us (which is totally ridiculous considering the actual practices of the editors). --ScienceApologist 20:19, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Colorado tolerance

I found Denver quite tolerant as well as Crestone. Fred Bauder 20:25, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent actions

Warning Your recent actions delisting redshift from good articles and pasting noncompliance notices on science article talkpages are uncivil. Please stop

--ScienceApologist 21:49, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Clair, when you delist articles, you have to write a note on their talk page explaining why you've delisted them :/. Homestarmy 22:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
You are adding the "unverifiable" template to articles like Creationism which have copious references. What exactly are you trying to communicate? --Fastfission 23:48, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
You apparently have different definitions of what is an amount of acceptable references. Without getting into the question about whether or not you are correct or not, it is important to note that if you expect to not communicate your message — and I think in this case you can definitely be expected to not communicate correctly, since the template says the article does not have references and this is clearly false, as there are lots of footnotes in the first sentence and extended sub-headings of actual references — then you need to really take the time to explain what you specifically think is wrong with the article on the talk page. Otherwise you are being rude, crass, and, in the end, completely ineffective if your goal is to actually improve articles. You need to take the time to explain yourself if you expect people to find your actions worth paying attention to, much less if you actually expect them to be helpful to the project. --Fastfission 00:55, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Adding that noncompliance tag or whatever you call it to article pages without specifying in the talk page what your objections are is absurd. Then you call its removal vandalism? In my view placing such an ugly tag on a stablized article with no discussion is closer to vandalism. Please explain - both here and on tha talk page of the article. Vsmith 23:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Your canned response removed from my user page, please respond here - not on my user page. I now have this page on my watchlist. Vsmith 01:13, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Don't disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. --Salix alba (talk) 00:03, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Seriously Clair, you are not supposed to delist articles without leaving a reason on the talk page, its part of the instructions. Homestarmy 00:24, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Homestarmy, the pages were delisted for violations of WP:V, and I've pointed out on the talk pages that the articles weren't meeting that standard. It's not that they aren't Good Articles, but that they aren't even acceptable articles.

The noncompliant tag warns readers that the article does NOT meet Wikipedia standards for content. It alerts editors that the article needs work. Both are highly admirable goals. The noncompliance tag is not disruptive of Wikipedia's goals; untrustworthy articles are, however. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 00:29, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Then why did several of those articles (redshift and creationism for example) have previously stable versions that a number of editors generally agreed upon? Would you be the only one in the army with the right step? Could it be that the absence of references in several points in those articles be due to the editors using the same material for a significant part of the article and them thinking it would be more appropriate NOT to repeat the same reference twenty times over in the article? Have you even discussed this (apart from quoting policy) on the relevant articles' talk pages?--Ramdrake 00:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Clair, the "reviews" were more like arguments on all of those articles, and there's no way those articles only require better citations to be improved, I know several of them have weasel-word things in them, (I checked) you've got to demonstrate that you're clearly reviewing the article to delist it or its hard to figure out what exactly your doing. Homestarmy 00:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Noncompliant tags

Hi, I think you are clearly violating WP:POINT. I have noted this on the administrators' noticeboard. Please feel free to comment. –Joke 00:45, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inappropriate tags

I removed inappropriate tags that you placed on several articles. For instance, you placed {{unsourced}} on Kentucky, which states that the article "does not cite its references or sources"; in fact, they are listed at Kentucky#References. I realize you would like to have extensive inline citations for all articles, and while that may be a criterion for good article or featured article status, it is certainly not a requirement for articles in general. Please do not misuse tags in this manner; support is clearly lacking for this position. — Knowledge Seeker দ 02:08, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I applaud your efforts to improve Wikipedia's referencing, but I don't feel you are going about it in the correct way. Just because something is permitted by or is consistent with a policy doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Having articles well-referenced is a laudable goal, but you must realize that most articles are not currently written that way. You can't just stick a "violation" template on or remove the bulk of the article and then move on, expecting people to patch it up. I realize that it's difficult to get people to reference articles better, and I think that's part of why featured and good articles require good citations. Another side to it is that there are different opinions on just how many citations there should be. Someone mentioned Pennsylvania as an example of an over-cited article, and I tend to agree. Perhaps a new solution to be able to hide superscripts or such is needed. Finally, I can't speak for other editors, but something like the date and order of statehood I would consider common enough knowledge to not require citation. That's just my opinion, but I feel that basic information like that does not need a specific, inline reference.
As for what you can do, the most important thing is to discuss with other users and work collaboratively. I think your attitude towards this put a lot of editors off. I'm not sure how best to get everyone to use extensive inline citations the way you would like. For a specific article, you can work with the article's editors on the talk page, perhaps listing major points that you feel should be explicitly cited. Doing it as part of a push for featured status could be especially productive. Try to be non-confrontational about it. This would be a slow, article-by-article project, but I don't think you'll be able to just tag a bunch or articles and hope they improve. I hope this helps a little; please let me know if I can be of further assistance. — Knowledge Seeker দ 06:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rollback

Please don't use automated rollback [5] to revert anything but vandalism and your own edits. To rollback without an explanation simply because you disagree with an edit is considered rude. Thanks. --W.marsh 02:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Ya know, accusing admins of vandalism probably isn't the best way to get ahead around here. If you actually want to improve the encyclopedia, great. But right now it looks like you're more interested in painfully literal interpretation of policy and stirring things up. That's not very helpful. I think you need to step back and consider that perhaps your current approach might not be that wise. --W.marsh 02:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Actual attempts to lower the quality of the article. --W.marsh 03:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The following is a quote from WP:VAND:

Improper use of dispute tags
Dispute tags are an important way for people to show that there are problems with the article. Do not remove them unless you are sure that all stated reasons for the dispute are settled. As a general rule, do not remove other people's dispute tags twice during a 24 hour period. Do not place dispute tags improperly, as in when there is no dispute, and the reason for placing the dispute tag is because a suggested edit has failed to meet consensus. Instead, follow WP:CON and accept that some edits will not meet consensus. Please note that placing or removal of dispute tags does not count as simple vandalism, and therefore the reverting of such edits is not exempt from the three-revert rule.

I have highlighted the pertinent line for your consideration. Vsmith 03:32, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, WP:VAND does not state that "removal of a dispute tag before resolving the problem is vandalism". Even if you believed so, it is abundantly clear from the edit summary of this edit that the editor was of the opinion that there was no problem, so you should have taken it to the talk page. Please try to be less blunt in your righteous quest for quality control. You have made many quality editors quite upset in a short period of time, and I do not think the net effect of your efforts improves the quality of Wikipedia. --LambiamTalk 13:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bean pod mottle virus affecting global soybean production?

Jack Woodall wrote Our Food is Dying back in March. It was quite an eye-opener. Among other things, he says:

Bean pod mottle virus caused significant [soybean] crop losses in 2005. Yields from infected plants were lowered by 10%-40%, and grain quality was reduced both in oil and protein. BPMV is spreading in the North American region but has also been reported in Iran, suggesting that infected seed may have been used for planting there. Southern bean mosaic virus causes severe symptoms in beans and other important leguminous food crops. It has been reported from Africa, North America, South and Central America, France, and Iran. Soybean decline means less animal feed, which has an impact on meat and dairy supplies.

Any comments? Waitak 05:22, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Point

Please review and follow WP:POINT. Thank you. JBKramer 13:52, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I just have to say this made me smile

If you're Stephen Hawking, and you're having trouble typing because of your disability, I'd fight for the policy to be changed, allowing you to have software that automatically inserts <ref>Because I say so. Stephen Hawking</ref> after every period that's followed by a space.
Again, I do have to apologize for my role in bringing this brew-ha about. I do believe that a great deal of positive after-effects will come out of this as the focus has been turned squarely onto the needs of WP:V and WP:CITE. It's just unfortunate that it is coming at a price of so many headaches and vented frustrations. The above comment was by far, the funniest thing I've read out of this whole ordeal and it was nice to see some humor interjected into this ordeal. In my opinion, that deserves a barnstar. Agne 22:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The Barnstar of Good Humor
To Clair, for finding a ray of humor admist some trying times. Agne 22:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A different point of view

I am not defending what Clair did in removing Good Articles without discussing it first. I understand why people are upset, but I wanted to point some things out that seem not have been mentioned in all this.

I have worked with Clair and his passion for getting citations and references has improved my articles and made me a better editor (I plan to go back and add more / better refs to articles I have worked on before I was as careful about references as I now am). I also value his overall contributions to Wikipedia. For two examples discussed here and elsewhere, take a look at Pennsylvania or Lancaster County, Pennsylvania before Clair started working on them and compare their content now (I know some people feel they are over cited, but look at their content). They are much better articles for his work on them.

Finally, I checked 21 random articles (1 was a disambiguation, so I didn't count it). 70% had nothing labeled as a reference or footnote or source (of these 7 (35%) had no references or external links, 7 (35%) had only external links (but at least there's something outside the article referred to)). Of the 6 (30%) that had references, 4 (20%) had only one reference and 2 (10%) had two references. Some of the articles with refs also had external links, but I did not keep track of that. Given the fact that verifiability is supposed to be a key factor in Wikipedia articles, I think complaints about too many references are a bit misplaced, don't you? Ruhrfisch 16:17, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Hey Clair, I know you haven't contributed for a week but I hope you are still reading this - please come back. Email me if you'd rather talk that way. Take care, Ruhrfisch 04:24, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
  • The same. You're missed. Choess 17:48, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
  • 'sides, you can't quit - you owe me a reply to the "Our Food is Dying" post on your talk page! And who's going to be my veggie oil cohort if you take off? :-) Waitak 01:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah don't live Wikipedia over inline citations, your heart was in the right place. I hope you come back and contribute. --W.marsh 00:38, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lancaster County -- Christiana Incident -- typo

Clair, take a look at the first paragraph of the "Slavery and the Christiana Incident" section. The last sentence is missing a verb: "However, the situation (missing verb) when the Fugitive Slave Law was passed as part of the Compromise of 1850." It looks like you originally wrote this text, so I imagine you would be the best person to offer the most appropriate verb here. Richwales 17:52, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A hello, a request

Hello Clair!

Since you reviewed and turned down my request for GA for New Jersey State Constitution about 20 days ago, I would like to request you re-review it now that it is fixed up to the concerns you had previously. Especially the notes, and I know you are a stickler about authoritivity. Thanks for your time. I hope that the article finally reaches good article status, as it has taken a lot of work. --Evan(Salad dressing is the milk of the infidel!) 21:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Texas hold 'em

Hi Clair - I have made a series of changes to Texas hold 'em and I have renominated it for a GA. I thought I'd let you know. Thanks again for all your help. --best, kevin [kzollman][talk] 06:05, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Howdy

Hi Clair, thanks for the messages on my talk page. I keep thinking you are gone, so I'm not sure if you will read this (which is part of why I haven't written before). Thanks for the happy Yule/Christmas/Saturnalia wishes and the same to you too (I celebrate Christmas, but the others sound fun as well). In addition to this one, I watch a fair number of your pages (JA, LC and the school districts in it, plus the templates for these). Let me know if there are others you want me to keep an eye on.

My understanding is that Jimmy Wales just resigned as chair of the Wikimedia Foundation board, but is still a member of the board and is still associated with Wikipedia and its sister projects (see here). You are missed. Take care, Ruhrfisch 03:07, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Image:Drano.jpg

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