Talk:Classical African Civilization
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I removed the "Original Research, POV, unsourced" tag after updating the stub as instructed by the tag. I added the following source:
ASCAC Association for the Study of Classical African Civilization http://www.ascac.org/
This group includes and represents Black scholars worldwide.
I can not think of a scholar that refers to themselves as an African (Black) scholar, that does not use this phrase. In addition, Dr. Diop, 1974 at UNSCO conference in Cairo, demonstrated to United Nation's scholars representing the world's continents and various ethnicity's, why Kemet is Classical African Civilization (CAC).
I am at best a poor student, so this is clearly not my original research.
Hopefully, a scholar qualified on Classical African Civilization will come along and expand this stub. Last but not least, this article should not be utilized to debate who the first Kemetan (Egyptians) were, anymore then an article on Israel is the place to debate who the first people of that land were.
Anyone wishing to join the Controversy over race of Ancient Egyptians should go to that discussion here on wikipedia.
This stub should be expanded to describe the interest, values and principle of Classical African Civilization and how they relate to the rest of Africa. --Aunk 00:03, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Not Verefiable
This article fails Verefiability: "Information on Wikipedia must be reliable. Facts, viewpoints, theories, and arguments may only be included in articles if they have already been published by reliable and reputable sources (emphasis mine). Articles should cite these sources whenever possible. Any unsourced material may be challenged and removed."
The scholars from the site noted, and, furthermore, virtually all the scholars who promote this belief (which is in fact doctrine, propoganda which does not belong on wikipedia whatsoever, cf. Wikipedia is not a soapbox) have no formal egyptological training. Their works, for this reason, do not conform to: "Wikipedia articles should use reliable published sources."
General scholarly consensus is that Classical African Civilization/Kemet has virtually zilch to do with "black africa," aside from the egyptians' tendancies to invade and/or subjugate nubia, trade with punt, count cattle, and measure geneology matrilinially as well as patrilinially. Culture, government, language, etc., all come from sumer, babylon, and western semites, along with a little berber from the east.
A fringe theory can be mentioned, however it should be mentioned as a fringe theory. Thanatosimii 19:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Refutation of the “Not Verifiable” Claim
Thanatosimii “Not Verifiable” claim is baseless for the following reasons
· His comments indicate that he has an extremely limited education regarding Kamet (Ancient Egypt) · He has demonstrated poor research skills or he put little effort into his search and/or he lied about what he found. · He is inserting his personal opinion with no facts to support his racist claims · He has failed to use the space provided by Wikipedia for this type of wild unsubstantiated claim. · He is a self-proclaimed anti-Kemetic, White supremacist bent on cultural terrorism. · The attack on this stub is an example of his attempted cultural terrorism
He says the following:
“…virtually all the scholars who promote this belief (which is in fact doctrine, propaganda which does not belong on wikipedia whatsoever, cf. Wikipedia is not a soapbox) have no formal egyptological training…”
This is a misrepresentation of the relevant facts. First of all Egyptologists are not the only authorities on the civilizations that are part of the history of the African Continent. Even Egyptologist recognizes that they by themselves are prone to significant errors, as history has demonstrated. Thinking Egyptologists and other disciplines understand that they must work in teams (linguist, anthropologist, historians etc) to be most effective.
This notion that only Egyptologist can speak on this topic a fallacious, next thing you know he will be trying to get us to believe that European trained scholars on China are the only experts on Chinese History. It would follow then that any Chinese historian talking about the history of their continent is promoting a, “doctrine, propaganda”, what ever that means. This would be an insult if it were not so self-evidently ridicules.
Below are just three of he founding members of ASCAC and the unified cultural understanding of Africa.
Theophile Obenga, an African Born in the Congo, is an Egyptologist and member of Societe Francaise d’Egyptologie and a polyvalent scholar. He is trained as a philosopher, historian and linguist knowing Greek, Latin, French, English, Italian and practicing Arabic, Syriac and Metu Neter (hieroglyphics). He was part of the team at the 1974 UNISCO Colloquium in Cairo on “The Peopling of Ancient Egypt…” that put to rest the old unsubstantiated “White Pharaonic Egypt” myth long associated with cultural imperialism.
Yosef Ben-Jochannan (Dr. Ben) an African American Professor of History and Egyptology at Cornell University. Dr. Ben is a master teacher and Senior Lecturer, Faculty of Languages, Al Azhar University in Egypt.
Dr.Cheikh Anta Diop (African Scholar) is the world-renowned father of unified African cultural understanding and has demonstrated this reality beyond dispute. His first doctoral dissertation submitted at the University of Paris in 1951 –based on the premise that Egypt was a Black African Civilization --was rejected. He defended his dissertation with an array of sociologists, anthropologists, and historians successfully carrying his argument and received his degree.
In 1974 Dr. Diop presented to the United Nation’s body of scholars, the case for the cultural unity of Africa including Classical African Civilization. The assembled body of world scholars including “Egyptologists” gave up their arguments against his proposal and rewrote the history of Africa, Egypt and the world in light of the new scientific evidence regarding Black Kamet (Egypt) presented.
Dr. Diop sat on numerous international scientific committees and achieved recognition as one of the leading historians, Egyptologist, linguists, and anthropologists in the world. He created the standard Melanin Dosage Test that is the scientific benchmark test to determine the amount of melanin produced by an individual ancient Kametan (Egyptian). This test in my opinion, and the opinion of many scholars, is the definitive test in determining the phenotypic Blackness of a Human being.
Thanatosimii apparently subscribes to the theory that Westerners are the authority on all things African and that Africans have nothing to say about their own continents history. One would like to think that it may simply be his newness to this complex field and his Cultural Illiteracy that have caused him to overlook three of the greatest African experts on this subject.
If Thanatosimii wishes to debate about the article, Wikipedia has provided a page for just that.
“… This article should not be utilized to debate who the first Kemetan (Egyptians) were, anymore then an article on Israel is the place to debate who the first people of that land were…”
Aunk said: “…Anyone wishing to join the Controversy over race of Ancient Egyptians should go to that discussion here on wikipedia…”
Thanatosimii is a culturally illiterate misguided student at best or an overt racist at worst. Take a look at his personal page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Thanatosimii
He says on his personal page “…. I am a student in college studying ancient and classical languages, history, and archaeology…”
I assume this statement means the young non-African person is Culturally Illiterate about African culture and is embarked on learning some things about some African languages, some points of view about history and a little about archaeology. Evidently his education to this point has been extremely limited if he is not aware of founding ASCAC members like Dr. Ben, Dr. Diop and Dr. Obenga.
Thanatosimii goes on to declare himself a self-appointed Wikipedia cultural terrorist.
“…It has come to my attention over the last several months that certain elements of non-standard Egyptology have worked their way into wikipedia, which need to be beaten out of it…”
The rest of his rant is filled with other White supremacy diatribe and more mis-representation of the facts.
Wikipedia should watch this individual as he strikes me as a potential vandal who is bent on attacking the African worldview and standard African thought.
--Aunk 17:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
