Talk:Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
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[edit] Dear Angel of Neutrality Unbelief
If you will note, the title of this article is "Disciples of Christ". It concerns those whose main principle of identity is their belief that Jesus is the Christ. They consequently consider themselves Christians. When you attempt to police the entire Wikipedia, to scour it clean of references to Jesus Christ, even where that title is the only one that makes sense in the context (as in a Christian article) you are pushing a point of view that distorts the articles you are editing. This is not neutrality, it is a form of argumentation; it is ordinary proselytism for your point of view. Please stop doing that. — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 01:18, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
- Hummm...I think this is a bit strong (albiet, I don't know the full history here). The "Jesus Christ" entry was mine when I re-wrote the article, and is a direct quote from http://www.disciples.org/discover/beliefs.htm: "Disciples are called together around one essential of faith: belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior." As such, I believe the statement should remain intact, as a statement of a core Disciples belief from an official church publication. -- Essjay · Talk 06:00, August 3, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Apology
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- I opened my complaint against this wiki-wide campaign to remove every link to Jesus Christ from articles pertaining to Christian belief (on the grounds that it's "POV"), on a page that I knew you monitored. But on reflection, I know that you don't like controversy, Essjay. I'm sorry to have made you uncomfortable. — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 06:33, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
If it's a systematic practice, then it sounds to me like it needs an RfC (like BC/AD and BCE/CE, although hopefully more successful). You're correct that as a general rule, I don't get involved in content disputes. With regard to this particular article, however, as I said above, "Jesus Christ" is a direct quote from the church's own website, and should remain intact. If quoting the one essential tenet of DOC faith is POV, then so is including the text of the Nicene Creed, the Eightfold Path, and the Five Pillars of Islam. No need to be worried about upsetting me, but I do believe that if there is a dispute about whether "Jesus Christ" should be used as a general rule, then RfC is the right place to go. No need to apologize to me. -- Essjay · Talk 12:58, August 3, 2005 (UTC)
- The rule of thumb that appears to guide the project, is that articles may contain the phrase (inconsistently followed - as individuals get their own ideas), but none may contain the link. If it's a link, it's a wiki-wide issue (making the phrase "POV"); but if it's an unlinked phrase, it can be isolated to its ghetto of peculiar Christian culture and belief. That's my perception of why they have felt justified in reverting links. — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 14:44, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Ah, well I have no opinion with regard to whether it should be linked as the whole phrase Jesus Christ, or as Jesus Christ. However, the statement should remain one or the other, the "Christ" portion, whether linked or not, is part of the actual statement of belief and as such should remain. For all those involved, please feel free to make whatever arguments you wish with regard to whether Christ should be part of the link, but please do not remove it from the statement altogether; that is, argue over link and de-link if you like, but make sure the phrase remains the same. -- Essjay · Talk 00:12, August 4, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Interesting....
I wonder why the editors of this article chose to insert an explanation for Edgar Cayce's membership in the Christian Church, but left unexplained that of alleged genocidal killer Jim Jones. Is it really so much worse to be an occultist than an (alleged) murderer? -- SwissCelt 20:51, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
- You're an editor too. If you think that there should be an explaination for Jones, add it. If you think there shouldn't be one for Cayce, delete it. "Edit this page" works equally for everyone. -- Essjay · Talk 02:50, September 13, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Jim Jones, Disciples minister or not?
Was Jim Jones ever a Disciples minister? This article currently states that he wasn't, without ever saying why one might think that he had been. His bio article says that he was. Anyone have any good references on this? Gwimpey 06:51, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
- The book by Mary McCormick Maaga said that the People Temple Full Gospel Church was an affiliate of the Disciples of Christ (page 2). The DoC had records for the nr. of members (page 3). One prominent member (Carolyn Layton) described herself in 1976 as "Vice President of the Peoples Temple of the Disciples of Christ." 15:49, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
>>>Was Jim Jones ever a Disciples minister? <<<
Answer from religious tolerance website:
"Background of the People's Temple: This was a Christian destructive, doomsday cult founded and led by James Warren Jones (1931-1978). Jim Jones held degrees from Indiana University and Butler University. He was not a Fundamentalist pastor as many reports in the media and the anti-cult movement claim. He belonged to a mainline Christian denomination, having been ordained in the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ. (At the time of his ordination, the DoC allowed a local congregation to select and ordain a minister on their own. However, ordinations conducted without denominational endorsement were not considered valid within the rest of the church.) "
See for full article from which the quote was excerpted http://www.religioustolerance.org/dc_jones.htm
and:
"Jones was ordained as a minister in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in 1964." Taken from this source: http://www.apfn.org/apfn/jones.htm
(lisa pollison)
[edit] Churches of Christ (Aus)
The Australian arm of the 'Disciples of Christ' is the 'Churches of Christ (Australia)'.
[edit] total
Does anybody have a reference of statistics of this church? How many members were listed on the US census? Is there membership geographically isolated to the United States? Cuñado 
- Talk 18:43, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
[1] and [2] (first two excel sheets). Both disciples.org and the second spreadsheet put the number around 800,000, so I used that in the article. disciples.org says that congregations are located in US and Canada. --MattWright (talk) 20:18, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Updating
This article needed some work, in my opinion, so I did it. Sorry that I'm not being more specific, but I mostly added some information. If anything seems off, let me know.--Atterlep 04:27, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
