User talk:Chochopk/Archive 3

ChoChoPK's talk archives
	Archive 1 (6)	< 2006-01-01
2006-01-01 ≤	Archive 2 (22)	< 2006-07-01
2006-07-01 ≤	Archive 3 (48)	< 2006-10-01
2006-10-01 ≤	Current

Infobox

Hey, I've looked at all the pages you've implemented so far, amazing job. The boxes look great and put a lot of info into one place.  :) Joe I 12:56, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. As a programmer, I really hate 1 style for 1 instance of the same type of object. My motto is "Do not solve problems on an instance. Solve problems on a class." I will continue the process of standardization. --Chochopk 18:41, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I, Joe I, award Chochopk this barnstar for all the work you've done on Template:Infobox Currency. Great job. :)

I, Nightstallion, award Chochopk this barnstar for the wonderful work he's done with the currency infobox. Keep on rockin'! :)

dialog

Hi, Chochopk. A next reply is ready at User_talk:Whiner01#Template:Rupee --Whiner01 05:52, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to VandalProof!

Thank you for your interest in VandalProof, Chochopk! You have now been added to the list of authorized users, so if you haven't already, simply download and install VandalProof from our main page. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me or any other moderator, or you can post a message on the discussion page. —Xyrael _{/ 16:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)} 16:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Icelandic króna

Sorry for that, didnt have time to correct it or put in the references, so next time just tell me what the correct highest denomination is and dont get upset, I dont put unvarified information in the articles, it's just I may put in the source later, Tata. Enlil Ninlil 05:38, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I will go over your templates to correct the currency in circulation, as in the Zambian kwacha where no coins are currently circulating, and the denominations were wrong, what u think?

Right... there's no 2 kwacha. Zntrip added a lot of currency infoboxes on African currencies, without validating what is already written there. I'm having a lot of trouble fixing those. I'm doing it reversely-chronologically. Your help is much appreciated! --Chochopk 10:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, but it was really no problem. Thanks also for the link to the instructions, I didn’t realize that there were more options. I’ll also be more for the next info boxes that I do. Sorry about any problems. – Zntrip 23:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Hay mate Im new at these info box, I got the info from the CIA, but I see it is used when fixed. Will change. Enlil Ninlil 06:04, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Yer mate and the Lao Kip dont use the smaller notes too and I wouldnt mention the coins of 10, 20 and 50 att as they definatly dont circulat, they are of too low a value. Maybe like the U.S 1 cent the 1, 2 and 5 fen dont circulat but they are still issued by the central bank. I fix up my mistakes eventually as you can see from most of the articles I creat. Please tell me the real problem? I dont intend to upset u mate, can we co-operat? Enlil Ninlil 06:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Thankyou, ok I will do the minor currencies and can you tell me what countries not to do so I wont put the Box in and I will try to make them as perfect as possible. Enlil Ninlil 07:05, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok the first your right, but I wont put outdated currency in the info box, only issued currency. Enlil Ninlil 08:24, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Comorian franc

Answered your question about the Comorian franc on my talk page SDC 01:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Guinean franc

I have a source [1] that it cannot be converted. Can I put the fact back? Green caterpillar 21:55, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I can't see it. It requires log in. --Chochopk 22:01, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Can I show you a quote? Green caterpillar 03:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I am very curious. I can't stop wondering if it's not convertible, how do foreign visitors get around, or how do Guinean citizens get foreign currencies to trade. --Chochopk 04:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

From Culturegrams online world edition, Republic of Guinea, Economy

"The currency is the Guinean franc (GNF), which is not tied to any international currency and cannot be converted or taken out of Guinea."

But my question above is still valid. --Chochopk 22:52, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

And I wonder that too. But the article never said anything about that. hmmmm. Green caterpillar 22:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Liechtenstein frank

I believe I have asked you this before, but is the Liechtenstein frank really the currency of Liechtenstein? I thought that the Swiss franc was. – Zntrip 01:32, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

This goes back to the bigger question I posted earlier about "semi-currency". I am not an expert about that region in particular. I got that off from a world coin catalog. It seems that Liechtenstein frank is commemorative only at the later periods. And Kiribati dollar and Cook Island dollar seem to have non commemorative, Nauru dollar looks like commemorative only, so we really need to set up some kind of rules about these. I guess the best way is to ask "If I go to a bank there, can I exchange arbitrary (and reasonable) amount of Swiss franc/Australian dollar/New Zealand dollar into those currency on demand". Unfortunately, this is not an easy question to answer. --Chochopk 02:20, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Is the Liechtenstein frank still minted? I think that should be taken into consideration too. – Zntrip 02:50, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

As I wrote in the article, the last one was minted in 1990 according to my catalog published in 2003. So it is not clear whether or not there will be more in the future. So your question is more or less about its legal tender status. Another one I raised earlier is more or less the practical status. They are all made of precious metal so we can pretty much rule out any practical use. Still need to investigate dollars of the Pacific. --Chochopk 04:11, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

There is no such thing. BTW please check out Western Europe before reverting. -- User:Docu

Of course I know Liechtenstein uses Swiss franc. But they do mint their coins as late as 1990, check out Liechtenstein frank for details. Analogous to Vatican lira and San Marinese lira. --Chochopk 06:14, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok. I added the treaty between LI and CH to the article. It might be easier to describe the topic in an article "currency of Liechtenstein". -- User:Docu

BTW the images for the notes look more like Austro-Hungarian_krone. - User:Docu

Gambian dalasi

The edit is not good, I use windows XP and the image covers the script, so dont preach just fix ha, dont message me again. Enlil Ninlil 22:05, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Numismatics

Just something to keep ya busy!  :)

Dram

It still makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to put the icon in when there is only one other language in which the name is given. Circeus 03:10, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

What I think is that there should be some way of marking them when there are several languages within the infobox, although {{languageicon}} is not necessarily the most appropriate. When there is a single one, any extra material(such as, in our case, the exact name of the language) should be part of the lead. Circeus 03:30, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

It's part of an informal standard to always give alternate and, by extension, native names within the lead, although Canadian dollar doesn't do it. It is as systematic as possible for foreign names of people, commercial and geographical entities, for example. Circeus 03:46, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

*smacks forehead* Sorry, I just looked like an ass, right? The lead is the first (few) paragraph(s) of an article, what is located before the Table of content. See also WP:LEAD. Circeus 03:50, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

My main issue is that using the language icon looks rather intrusive in that location. Maybe by <small>ing them, it would help? Circeus 03:57, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I still think it's inappropriate for single languages,but I'm not ready to really argue over it, as long as the info is also present in the article (my philosophy is that information should be available only within the infobox). Circeus 04:02, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Currency Infobox

Hello, I am doing my best but sometimes I dont have all the information, like iso_code, inflation_rate, symbol, nickname, mint etc , but I am doing my best , please have some patients with me as I dont know anything about computer programming nor do I want too. Where do you get your information from? I dont like doing things over more than once like you dont. Thankyou Enlil Ninlil 03:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok no use talking to you anymore cause you always missunderstand me, but good work on the infoboxes anyway. Enlil Ninlil 04:12, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

a revert

I rolled back this edit of yours because the change was pointless and IMO wrong (stub templates are content of this page and this wiki and should therefore come before the links to other pages), and also because the edit summary was completely off (no actual inter wiki sorting was done). --Joy [shallot] 22:22, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Mark der DDR/East German Mark

I know that mark in German is always capitalized. But a currency unit should not be capitalized in English. See Talk:German mark. And during the process of "reverting the move", you also revert some of the content... --Chochopk 00:48, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

• You need to consider that the coins and notes of the currency were imprinted with Mark der DDR. There's no doubt about it; I have not attempted to change anything, other than reflect that. The use of English in relation to this is irrelevant; it would be like trying to spell 'dalasi', for example, 'in an English way'. Besides, the talk pages on the Deutschemark did not reach a consensus either on spelling or context.
  • And I take exception that I deliberately deleted some content from the page. The caption did not relate to the article in any way at all. Almost any term can be abbreviated. Some abbreviations that have appeared on this site are extremely specific, to certain products, or services only available in the US. Unless there is an absolute consensus on the use of an abbreviation [e.g. an internationally-recognised, or well-known abbreviation], or there has been a disambiguation page set up, then I do not see why an alternate use caption should be added.
  • It appears that the page 'DDM' was first created as a redirect to this page, but at some point, someone else attempted to start a disambiguation, but did not rename that page, or include other standard disambiguation features. If a disambiguation is needed, then it could be created and this is where other, alternate meanings should be placed.
    • Finally, please do not try to create unnecessary moves, as this causes unwanted double-redirects. (RM21 01:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC))

I am aware of the double-redirect problem. Apparently, we both did some mistakes. Before today, there was no double redirect. After you move it to "Mark", you moved the destination of "Mark der DDR" but omitted "DDR". I looked at "what links here" before moving, and found that DDR was double redirect, so I assume you omitted the process entirely, and did not carry on further.

And if you think "Mark" is the way to go, then for consistency, that applies to German mark, Reichmark, Renrenmark, Papiermark as well. All should be changed. But let's reach a consensus first before such massive change. --Chochopk 01:31, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

• I would somewhat agree with that. Perhaps a compromise could be to only rename articles where the world Mark is a separate, distinct word, not part of another word, as this is where the use of capitals applies. Would it be worth starting a discussion about it?? (RM21 01:35, 14 July 2006 (UTC))

The general consensus is to use <country's adjective form in English> <currency name in local form>. The denomination should be lower case, because it is a unit. And when writing the content, generally use the local language's grammar for plural (you never heard 1 USD = 111 Japanese yens). There has been a heated debate long time ago. But I don't have a problem with capitalizing Mark, as capitalization is part of a language's grammar. But if that is the way to go, then I think German reichmark should be renamed German Reichmark. You can try messaging the people in that discussion, or amending the discussion of German mark. What about pfennig? (I don't speak German). --Chochopk 01:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

• • Yes, you are right. Word such as Rentenmark would have a capital letter - as a separate noun - and so would Pfennig. There would be a lot to correct!! (RM21 01:56, 14 July 2006 (UTC))

Leu

Admitted, the leu is pegged to the euro. Danielsavoiu 10:37, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Hungarian currency

Thank you for improving the forint coinbox. What do you think about adding the thickness data of the coins? ‰ (or /1000) is more widely used than % in the case of giving the Ag or Au content of an alloy. So I think 500 ‰ (or 500/1000) would be better than 50 %.

I would like to create a "Hungarian currency" or "Hungarian money" article including the history of the Hungarian monetary system from the early ages to recent times (and maybe future prospects). It would be much easier to overview the historical relations, and through the links (to forint, pengő) more details would be available on a certain currency system.

--193.224.48.130 11:36, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

If we were to use ‰ for precious metal, then it must be the stnadard for all currencies. May I ask where did you find the composition and thickness data (and previous 100 Ft)? An article about Hungarian currency would be nice, as there is already an Chinese currency and Croatian money. If you wish, you can create an category as well. --Chochopk 17:03, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

NAturally. Károly Leányfalusi - Ádám Nagy: Hungarian coins and banknotes (1926-1998) Budapest, 1998 ISBN 963 03 60 6023 3. This book is in Hungarian with a short German summary. Many infos on the notes and coins. I used sometimes other sources to verify reality, mostly the Hungarian National Bank homepage. There are many detailes in the brochures issued by the Hungarian Mint Ltd. unfortunately only in Hungarian. As a member of the Hungarian Coincollectors' Association, I recieve the occasionally (2-4 per annum) issued "Érem" (coin) journal, including news and studies about Hungary related numismatics. This is in Hun, with a brief Ger and Eng summary of the contents. If you are thinking about adding the compsition with percentage and the thickness for other countries' coins, the best source would be a well informed numismatist wikipedian from that nation.

Again, I suggest to use per mille format (either 'x ‰' or 'x/1000') for all coins containing precious metal. Per centum is accurate enough in other cases.

I would like to create the article, just need to collect sufficient literature for a precise article. I will scan my collection as well, so no copyright problems can occur. I think the following system would be easy to overlook, search and understand: A Hungarian currency article summarizing the entire coinage and banknote printing history of Hungary, Articles describing the different systems (middle age coinage, ottoman occupation, transilvania, Habsburg occupation, post-1867 Guld/Forint system, Krone/korona system, post-wwi Hungarian korona, pengo, forint). Finally, an article could be created for each type of coin and banknote (as in the case of the Danich Krone or them more extensive USD pages). - There is some systems which are tightly connected to a bigger one and should not be spiltted into a separate article, like the Red Army Pengő of 1944. However, there were other countries besides Hungary occupied by the Soviet Union, where Red Army banknotes were issued (Czechoslovakia, Romania), so an article summarizing the red army issues would be a useful one.

Finally, although I have some useful numismatic experiences, I am a beginner wikipedian. So thank you for your technical help. I would like to ask how can I upload a pic to the common site. Thx --Timur lenk 21:46, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I am creating a very brief Hungarian Korona aritcle now, just to fill this gap. COuld you insert it into the succession box system? Ta, --Timur lenk 21:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

The 1.0 version of Hungarian korona is ready... --Timur lenk 22:47, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

So I had to creat an account in the commons as well, that's okay. I uploaded a file, gave the licence tag, but I don't know how to move it into the hungarian bill category... Could you give me a hint? Ta, --Timur lenk 23:24, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

That would be a great help. However, I have pieces in a much better condition of the following banknotes: 50 P (1945); 100 P (1945); 1 000 000 P (1945); 10 000 000 P (1945); 100 000 000 milP (1946); 10 000 B.-P (1946); 100 000 B.-P (1946). I will upload scans of these as well as the 1 000 000 000 B.-P (1946) when I have a bit more time.

For the 100 Ft (1996) coin: the coin is made of steel, its ring is plated with Ni, its core is plated with 75% Cu 25% Zn alloy. Maybe the following description would be better: Nickel (ring) and Copper 75 % - Zinc 25%; (core) plated steel. Or what do you think, how to put it? --Timur lenk 07:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

That would be good. The coin is one peice of metal - despite the popular belief, that bicolor coins are put together from two pieces. Some people say you can remove the core by frozing the coin, but this is not true... I miss very much an article about bicolor coins. --Timur lenk 08:24, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow, I have just noticed you reformatted the banknote box, Thank you. I will follow this now. If it is possible, I suggest to use a black background for the pics, that's the best to enhance the banknote design (or at least that is my exhibiton experience). --Timur lenk 08:27, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Are you converting the inflation series currency box to your standard, or shall I do it? If I will have time I will scan my collection and remove the scans of poor quality notes as well as the scans from other websites. (However, some banknotes are so rare that the only way to show them is to get a copy from a website, like Ron Wise's WPM page.) So let me move the banknote pics to the wiki commons. What would be the ideal size (kB) of a bill scan?

I think I used 300 dpi, (used a friends scenner and did not want to modify settings) but I try to make pics with a less than 100kB size. The denominations look a bit strange, that's why I tried to put the numbers under the scans - so it could be displayed in one row. It would be also okay to set the size of the "value" column if possible, and then use <br> . Using commas or points (like 1,000,000,000 or 1.000.000.000) should be avoided in my opinion. Is there something like a nonbraking space in wikipedia? --Timur lenk 19:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if the pengő is in a new row, only the number should be in one. I would like to decrease the scan size without loss of quality - I mean the output size will be smaller. I will work it out, just let me take my time...

Haha, a non-braking hyphen would be also useful for the b.-pengő... --Timur lenk 20:14, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I will tell you in a day's time or two (I am on a different PC now). I used 300 dpi for the scans.--Timur lenk 20:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi! I have uploaded a few korona bill scans (1,2,10,20,100,1000). Is this resolution okay? (150dpi) --Timur lenk 21:26, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I have found some data on average daily inflation rates: August 1945: 2 %; November: 15 %; April 1946: 60 %; May: 1012 %; second week of July: 53 214 %. I try to find monthly rates. Thank you for the dash! Tell me, if you have any questions.--Timur lenk 14:15, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

There was also a 100M adópengő bill, so 10M was 5 f and 100M was 50 f. 1M did not act as 0.5 f (by the way, the smallest minted coin in the forint system was the 2 f coin). A 1000M adópengő tax bill was also designed and printed, but was not put into circulation (due to the switch to the forint). Even the 100M tax bill was introduced in the last minute: on 25th July, just 7 days before the forint (1st Aug).--Timur lenk 07:39, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Chochopk! Have a great weekend. --Timur lenk 20:49, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey! The Hungarian National Bank has a library, so I will look up the correct inflation rates (When I have a bit more time). But the 500-times inflation is not irreal: it has happened that prices increased 10 times from morning till noon and again 10 times till the afternoon. And the day was still not over...--Timur lenk 12:46, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Wow, it looks great now! And I still owe you with correct dates and inflation rates...Timur lenk 09:18, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Sri Lankan Banknotes and Coins

If you have images and information about Sri Lankan banknotes, coins [both recent, ancient and also Portuguese, Dutch (V.O.C), British periods], could you please contribute to the article/upload them to the Sri Lanka Rupee Wikipedia pages. Many Thanks for formatting some of the mistakes in the page.

Cheers and All the Very Best.

Anil --130.194.5.129 01:54, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

-- Thanks a lot for your message in NO TIME. Can I use the images of Sri Lanka currency in existing web pages in the Internet ? What about the copy right issue ?

Cheers Anil --130.194.5.129 02:53, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Franc changes and other currency symbol edits

Hi there

I'm fairly new to editing on Wikipedia so forgive me if I don't understand how the Talk thing is supposed to be used.

The information on the symbols for the various Francs is partly based on the page http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/currency_table.html, but I've been checking to see if there is any other support for the abbreviations there as the various sources don't always agree.

If you had a specific example in mind that you're interested in, I should be able to tell you why I thought it should be changed. --Ajhoughton 21:08, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll update the list of circulating currencies as you request, though it'd make sense for me to do this when I've finished since I've been making my own list of currency information (that's why I'm changing things :-) --Ajhoughton 21:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the ₭ sign is a defined Unicode symbol, but I wasn't sure whether it predated "New Kip" or not, or whether KN should be written using ₭, or whether the local custom is actually to write just ₭ most of the time. Basically I wondered whether KN was really only KN because westerners like me can't easily type ₭ :-) --Ajhoughton 22:08, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

List of Currencies

The best place for the list of currencies to appear is on currencies. It'll only be difficult to maintain if people don't put new creation there. The split up lists shouldn't have been created in the first place. They're part of the problem, not the solution. Do you have any other reason not to have the list where it first was?
Dove1950 19:03, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

So we have

• List of currencies

Unit name -> currency mapping (circulating or historical)

• List of historical currencies

By region first, then Unit name -> currency mapping

• List of circulating currencies

Political entities -> currency mapping

• What was on Currency

By circulating status first, then unit -> currency mapping

And the historial part is a duplicate of List of historical currencies. The two are already out of sync

What I'm really against is having duplicate. And I'm also against having the list on the article which explains what currency is in general. There are many ways to contruct lists, by various mapping scheme (alphabetical on unit, alphabetical on political entity, etc). But why choosing one particular list? And you can't put all lists on Currency.

And I admit, the "circulating" part of the list on what was on Currency is not a duplicate of anything else. So what about

• Renaming List of circulating currencies to "List of circulating currencies by country/region"
• "List of circulating currencies by unit" which is the "circulating" part of the list on what was on Currency
• Rename List of historical currencies to "List of historical currencies by unit"
• Remove List of currencies because it is a union of future "List of historical currencies by unit" and "List of circulating currencies by unit". Or alternatively, make List of currencies a disambig page.

So when a new article is created for a circulating currency, update 2 lists. Historical, 1 list. --Chochopk 20:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate your efforts to regularize this but to me it still seems most user friendly (both to readers and contributors) to have the full list in currencies. Splitting up the lists, to my mind, increases the likelihood of someone not finding what they're looking for. As to mapping schemes, the situation before the lists were removed from currencies was a hangover from when the list had been little more than circulating currencies plus the denarius. A reorganization was probably long overdue but stripping the lists out seems to me to make things worse, not better. Is it simply a length issue that stops us keeping the list in currencies?
Dove1950 22:20, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Well said, but I'm still not convinced that we should put the list back to the article. There is a reason why wikipedia has "List of ...". If you go to country, state, you will find no list there. Instead, it will provide you links to the actual lists, perhaps by different sorting scheme. Currency is a generic term, so IMHO I don't think it should have a list embedded. --Chochopk 22:57, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Kwacha

The change I reverted was a malformed wikilink. I was doing recent changes patrol, so I probably didn't see the other article, it probably flew off the recent changes list before I could catch it. Feel free to revert me, mistakes happen. :) RyanGerbil10(The people rejoice!) 06:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

The successor-prececessor table of article "German mark"

Hiya. I'm wondering why you reverted the change I did to the successor-prececessor table of article German mark. As it was, and is now again, the table suggests that the East German mark existed parallel to the reichsmark and the rentenmark, whereas the reality is, of course, that both the (West) German mark and the East German mark are successors to the reichsmark and the rentenmark. My edit reflected this accurately. Would you consider re-reverting the edit based on this argument? --Teemu Leisti 22:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

You wrote: I can understand your point. But the reason I did that was because a succession box focuses on the one currency that is described in the article. From Reichmark to East German Mark, there was a different reason and different ratio that, I believe, is most suitable in the article of Reichmark and East German Mark. What if there were 10 intermediate currencies between Reichmark and German Mark in West Germany only, but not in East Germany. What about the reverse? Should we put a 10 between Reichmark and East German mark to show that East German mark did not run concurrently with Reichmark? By making succession box 1-currency centric, we can avoid these problems. After all, succession boxes are for "what is before this" and "what is after this". In East Germany, Reichmark was "2 steps" before the unified Mark. — OK, I see your point, and it's better than mine. So let's leave the box as it is. --Teemu Leisti 23:04, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

The "Ethiopian birr model"

You suggested to use this model in some cases. In my opinion, it is okay to include a territory in the current part succession box that has some autonomous rights (especially the right to have its own currency, like pre-2006 Montenegro or present-day Kosovo). Therefore, in the case of Ethiopian birr, it makes sense to speak about currency of Eritrea between 1952-1960 and between 1993-1997. between 1960-1993, only Ethiopian administration existed, Eritrea had neither sovereignty nor any sort of autonomous rights. (Saying in 1978 that the currency of Eritrea is the birr is like saying in 2006 that the currency of East Germany is the euro.) The same case of Austria between 1938-1945. Even Ukraine and Belarus represents the same situation during their Soviet Union "membership", however, both countries had more or less autonomy and were members of the UN since 1945.

I have the fear that the innumerable border modifications in Europe during the XXth century will make huge and complicated succession boxes. For example, after WWII, Slovakia got back not only its Southern territories (Which the 1st Vienna Award awarded to Hungary in 1938), but three villages near to Pozsony / Bratislava (Horvátjárfalu / Jarovce, Oroszvár / Rusovce, Dunacsúny / Cunovo) were awarded to Slovakia (Treaty of Paris) due to strategic considerations. One could say that who cares with three villages, but this territory was part of Hungary between the two world wars - and it is not much smaller than Muraköz (Medimurje)...

So I don't think each territorial change must be mentioned in the succession box. Only mention if the currency of a new country / state / autonomous province etc. (so a state-like subject that has the right to circulate its own currency) appears without precedessor (like Eritrean nakfa after split from Ethiopia in 1993, but unlike Ethiopian birr after split of Eritrea) or disappears without successor (like East German mark after the reunificaton of Germany in 1990, but unlike West-German mark after the reunification).

For example, German mark or deutschmark was the currency of the Federal Republic of Germany between 1948-2001. It would express that East Germany was simply integrated into West-Germany (contrary to the widely used "reunification" term), at least from the point of view of the circulating currency. It would also express that Germany is not the successor state of West Germany but the same country with an enlarged territory.

In the case of the pengő, I would simply say that it was the currency of Hungary between 1 Jan 1927 and 31 Jul 1946. Northern Transylvania, Southern Slovakia and Bácska was totally incorporated into the Hungarian administration. Subcarpathia enjoyed some autonomy, but it was very little and cannot be compared to the rights of then-Yugoslav federal states, present day US states or German federal states.

Naturally, this is only my opinion, I would like to know your thoughts. --Timur lenk 01:04, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it is true, but while Bohemia and Moravia and the Slovak Rep. had some sort of statehood (although the former was a protectorate, the latter was considered a puppet state after the WW), and, what is more important, they issued their own money; Sudetenland and southern Slovakia (together with the whole Subcarpathia that you did not mention although it was a somewhat autonomous province of Czechoslovakia under the name "Podkarpatska Rus" and later of Hungary under the name "Ruszinszkó") was integrated into Germany and Hungary.

The problem is, that if you would draw all the borderlines of the XXth century on the map of Europe, the biggest territory would be less than - say - 100 000 km2. Moreover, we would have maybe more than a thousand territories. And it is not the "duty" of a numismatic site to go into the details of territorial changes.

So we have two choices: Either we take into account only territorial changes over xxx km2 or we take into account only territories with certain self-government rights (like but not exclusively the right to circulate money). This should be decided as soon as possible to ensure the consistency of the succession boxes.

Another example: northern Transylvania was (re)integrated into Hungary due to the second Vienna award as if it was the part of Hungary since its independence. Contrary to this, Bessarabia became part of Soviet Union according to the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact (secret clause), and became a Soviet state. However, it did not have the right to issue money...--Timur lenk 10:12, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

thanks

for the welcome. I'm eager to jump right back in, but am trying to restrain myself, at least a bit. If there's anything particular you'd like help with, let me know. Ingrid 20:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Collaboration

The current Numismatic Collaboration of the Month is Ancient Greek coinage. Every month a different Numismatic-related topic, stub or non-existent article is picked. Please read the nomination text and improve the article any way you can.

German units

I'm sorry I didn't clarify. I was speaking about changing the unit names to upper case. I hope this clears things up. Happy wiki'ing. Johann Wolfgang 17:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Are you talking about the names of units in German or all languages? They ought to be capitalized in German as this is correct local style, but not for other languages.
Dove1950 14:52, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

List of pegged currencies

...is an article waiting to be written by you, wouldn't you agree? (Frankly, I'd personally just love to have a list of all currency pegs with actual sources and citations, that's why I'm asking you. ;)) —Nightstallion (?) 13:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

That would be handy. But I'm on wiki break now. Frankly, I tend to prioritize improving the quality of existing articles first. Another issue to address is to make casual editors aware of the page so that it is (almost) up to date. --Chochopk 22:49, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Still, I love to work on something like that with you; just tell me once you're off your wiki break and once you want to start on it. :) Okay? —Nightstallion (?) 05:37, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Back from your break yet? :) —Nightstallion (?) 12:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Currency and whatnot

Hey, sorry it has taken so long for me to get back to you. I had originally planned on getting back to you when I stopped being extremely sick, but it ended taking longer than I thought and I ended up forgeting that I needed to reply back to you.

Anyways, I am glad to see that someone else on Wikipedia enjoys currency (paper money) topics. I must say, good job on the Infobox Currency template! Also, let me know what you think of the template:Obsolete U.S. currency and coinage template. My reason for not puting the Federal Reserve Bank Note and other related topics in the same template as the template:US currency and coinage is that I thought it would be too cluttered.

And I haven't seen the movie Catch Me If You Can, but since it takes place in the '60s they probably did use United States Notes in that movie. It's interesting that they did something like that instead of using a cliqué such as all the money being Federal Reserve Notes.
--Kurt 22:45, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

North Korean Central Bank

您好啊. I noticed that you said the Central Bank doesn't issue the visitors' notes. If so, then I would like to bring to your attention an error in the North Korean Wŏn page, stating, "North Korean wŏn are intended exclusively for North Korean citizens, and the Central Bank issues a separate currency (or foreign exchange certificates) for visitors, like many other socialist states." Please fix this. 謝謝. Respectfully, 阮願龍/Ionius Mundus 04:01, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

好, 謝謝. --Ionius Mundus 04:32, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Simpsons image on your user page

Hi, I removed that image because it is fair use and according to Wikipedia policies cannot be used outside article namespace. Cheers, Renata 10:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Exonumianotice

There is not currently a watchlist for Exonumia, but I can create one easily enough, and will put it on my to do list. I had trouble figuring out what to tag in Category:Orders and decorations, since some of the orders don't have an associated medal, but they're not in separate categories (which is all the bot uses to tell what belongs). So, if someone wants to put in the effort to figure out what should be tagged, I can finish the tagging. Otherwise, I'll just make the watchlist. Antarctican dollar is a tough one. I guess it's technically exonumia, but it could also be considered numismatics since it is semi-official. I'd be inclined to leave it with numismaticnotice, since I think it's interesting and others in the project probably do too (exonumianotice was created to de-clutter the numismatics project). Ingrid 14:28, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

"No plural" on Infobox Currency template

The "no_plural" option on Template:Infobox Currency puts out "The language(s) of this currency does not have the concept of plural." This statement is ambiguous as to whther it refers only to the native name for the currency or to the English name. E.g., it is certainly true that the Chinese forms of the New Taiwan dollar and the Macanese pataca don't have plurals but English has dollars and patacas.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by AjaxSmack (talk • contribs) 05:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Very well, I will make the changes accordingly. --Chochopk 05:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Taiwanese for 塊

Are you sure 箍 = 塊 in Taiwanese? I think 箍 means something else. [2] --Chochopk 05:23, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

It's definitely a marginal character but here are some citations:

彙音寶鑑 by 沈富進 gives the pronunciation as kho· and 商用台語 by 吳秀麗, 常用漢字臺語詞典 by 許極燉, and 台湾語会話 by 樋口 靖 specifically translate it as such. In English, Macgowan's English and Chinese Dictionary of the Amoy Language lists it under numerals and classifiers as "for dollars, bundles of firewood." Online examples here: [3] and here: [4]. 塊 would be tè and not kho· in Taiwanese.

Not to detract from 林語堂's excellent dictionary you cited, but he is only providing the Mandarin meanings for the characters.

 AjaxSmack  06:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Currency name

Per Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Style, currency unit should use local form, e.g. Chinese wen, not Chinese cash. If you have any concern, please discuss at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numismatics. --Chochopk 07:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't aware that WP:UE had been suspended for currency units. However, if the rule "use the local name for the denomination even if there's an English translation. If the currency name contains non-ASCII characters, use them..." is followed, the article name should be Chinese 文? -  AjaxSmack  08:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Currency

About the infoboxes, (and I am being more careful now :) I was wondering if I could make a suggestion. For the section on coins and banknotes, I think it would be more helpful if the subunits and main units were put on different lines. This way it would prevent run-on (i.e. 1, 5, 10, 25, 50 centavos, 1, 2, and 5 pesos).

Another comment (more of a question) is: What should be put for bills that extend into the thousands? For example, in a list of banknotes (200, 300, 400, 500, 1,000 dollars) the comma in the thousand will look weird. Should the other commas be replaced with semicolons or should the comma be removed? – Zntrip 05:14, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Your note

Thanks for your pointer to Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Sandbox/Succession.

I wasn't really planning on updating more succession boxes, I stumbled upon the Dutch Guilder and the French Franc, since these have been currency in my country, Belgium.

I wasn't really pleased with the result of my edits, certainly not at French franc. In fact, I had been looking at template:succession box to see if there was a better solution. I had already given up, so now I'm glad that you guys are working on a lasting solution.

I have a suggestion for the Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics (which you of course can take or leave) : I would create today a template:currency succession box, that for the time being can be a mere copy of template:succession box. On the template page, you could point towards your Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics, to give interested editors more info about what you are planning. --LucVerhelst 08:19, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Złoty

Yes, I've seen it. Since I don't feel much support on restructuring the złoty article, and I am not an expert to rewrite it - the best would be to move the banknote box to the historical site and replace the current. I'll do it and if you don't like you are free revert.

I still think that the current Polish złoty is rather a Money of Poland article. If a Polish numismatic expert will make efforts to expand the article, it can be restructured later into articles corresponding to the certain money systems.Timur lenk 09:09, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Another thing: Just discovered the Yugoslav krone article. That crown should be added to the crowns box.

I don't know how to create these boxes, but a guilder/florin box would be interesting as well. It would include:

Current: Aruban florin, Hungarian forint, Netherlands Antillean gulden, Polish złoty

Defunct: Austro-Hungarian gulden, British Guianan guilder, Danzig gulden, Dutch gulden, Netherlands Antillean gulden, South German gulden, Suriname gulden

However, there's a dosen of midevial and modern defunct coins called florin, forint, guilder, gulden - minted in Italy, England, Germany, Britain, Ireland and many other countries.

You may ask why Polish zloty is included. First, złoty means golden (like gulden), second, on Austrian and later Austro-Hungarian Gulden(-forint) banknotes the Polish translation for the currency was złoty.

Well, I have created a guilder template beginner version, I am not sure how the midevial coins should be included. Sometimes the coins are more close to a monarch (e.g. gold florin of Charles I of Hungary) than to a nation or country.

A pound template would be of great use as well, which would include all pounds, liras, livres, punts, libras and so on. Dinar (along with denar and denarius) is also a widespread currency name from ancient Rome to modern countries like Serbia and Algeria. Another bunch of currencies with the same origin contains drachma, diram, dram and several dirhams. Maybe a ruble box would be of some use as well (since there's a dosen of former Soviet countries that used it, and maybe the Russian ruble article will be chopped into pieces once...).Timur lenk 02:53, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I AM surprised, if such currency navigational boxes exist, why aren't these added to the corresponding articles? I wanted to know if any of these boxes are created so I checked some articles about the most famous pounds and dinars - as a beginner user would do who searches for such info... Maybe it is better to add the boxes to the articles, even if they are not complete. It is possible to correct them later, isn't it?

Anyway, I will add guilders' box to the numismatic templates so others will notice it, should they look for it there.

Dirhams' box is not existing, so - if you agree - I would create and then add it to the articles.

Peso - dollar. As far as I see, the currency navigational boxes include currencies with the same name. So US dollar's standard is based on the Spanish eight-real or peso, but the name derives from the thaler (which is called tallér in Hungarian, just to mention...). It is also true, that both thaler/dollar and eight-real/peso was a silver coin name (until modern times), but it would not be practical to include all the silver moneis in one box. The relation between peso and dollar is like German mark and Bulgarian lev for me.

Then, why do I dare to put forint, gulden, and złoty in one box? I just followed the use of etymological relations between money names in the nav boxes. The medieval gold coins minted in Florence were also referred to as gold coins (guilder, gulden, and złoty) and as Florentine coins (fiorino, florin, and forint). These word were (and are still) used as synonyms.Timur lenk 12:43, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

And I completely agree with your categorization of moneies in nav boxes.Timur lenk 12:46, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the purpose is to navigate easily - and to show general overview. I wouldn't think that such remote currencies like dram, drachma and dirham came from the same origin. I wouldn't create a box for two currencies either (a disamb site is for that purose) - but six might be much enough.

Be bold, and create the yuan/won/yen template! I am not familiar with far east currencies. (I should be)

I would not chop up dollar. If you do so, dalers and tolar should be choped off as well. Dollar, thaler, daler, tolar (and so on) are the same names in diff languages. Unite them all or create an own box for each. If you think the current box is too big, an As a denomination section would help.

I noticed once that you modified 50 h, 1, 2, 5, 10 Sk to 50 h, 1 Sk, 2 Sk, 5 Sk, 10 Sk in the Slovak koruna article. what about adding this to the vote as well?

Well, those new categories will make a good solution! Timur lenk 14:37, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi, there was a poll on denomination capitalization. I know I've missed it, but want to ask if the result means that German names should be written non-capitalized. In general, I agree with the result, but there's an other principle we follow: to use lokal forms. In the case of German money names (Mark, Krone), if we really want to follow lokal names, we should keep them capitalized (in German all nouns are capitalized).Timur lenk 07:16, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Caps

Well, I am aware that I came a bit late, and I really don't wanna mess up things. If we had the principle that we use local money name (I don't know how widely this is accepted), we should use Mark. And we make article names of the English adjective and the native noun, like Vietnamese đồng. Who opposed, said this is English Wikipedia (which means to use English ortography and no diacritical signs).

To be consistent, I wanna know, how shall I write then Austro-Hungarian Krone/korona? And it should be also considered that Krone and korona were equally used.

Article title:

Austro-Hungarian crown

Austro-Hungarian Krone

Austro-Hungarian krone

Austro-Hungarian korona

Austro-Hungarian corona

Austro-Hungarian Krone/korona

Austro-Hungarian krone/korona

Name in article:

Krone

krone

crown

corona

korona

Krone/korona

krone/korona

K (after clarifying simbol)

I checked some bilingual countries: FIM is under the title "Finnish mark", but referred to as markka throughout the article; CHF is franc (not Franken or franco) both in the title and the article; BEF is franc (not frank or Franken) both in the title and the article; IEP is pound (not punt); CYP is pound (not lira, although English is not official, see Cyprus); MTL is lira (not pound, although English is official, see Malta).Timur lenk 18:57, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I've noticed that User:Dove1950 reverted non-capitalized German money names to capitalized. If this is okay (I think so) I will use Krone and Gulden in the corresponding articles, okay?Timur lenk 21:37, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Thought she did so with your consent. German mark‎, South German gulden‎, Danzig gulden‎, Austro-Hungarian gulden‎Timur lenk 23:45, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

List of numismatic associations of the world

I think such a list would be very useful, and would be a base for the creation of articles on national numismatic associations.Timur lenk 19:22, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Hungarian Pengo

In Romanian there does not exist the leter "ö". Furthermore, on the banknotes that I have there is written: "penghei" (or "penghel") as a translation in Romanian. So, I not just think, I am convinced that the change should remain.

Thank you.

ES Vic

I wrote "PENGŐ" because I have a one pengő banknote, and the indication of value is "UNA PENGŐ" (see [5]).

However, there must have been some uncertainity around the orthography of value in Romanian. The form "PENGEI" was used on the first and second series of pengő bills. On both the 1938 low denomination series and the 1936-41 war series "PENGŐ" was used on the 1, 2 and 5 P bills, while "PENGEI" on the 10 and 20 P bills. For the first time, on the 1943 1000 P bill "PENGHEI" is used. Then, an all inflation series pengő bills with indication of value in ethnic languages the "PENGHEI" form is used (excpept for the 50 and 100 P bills which were reprints of the 1926 versions and thus using "PENGEI"). Since the only contemporary source with the Romanian equivalent for "PENGŐ" in singular is the above mentioned 1938 1 P bill, I decided to use it.

I know that there's no "Ő" in Romanian (like English). However, the "PENGŐ" was used as a singular, and then they tried to create plural forms somehow...

Moreover, I saw that Romanian wikipedia uses "Pengő" as article title, so I don't se any cause to change it. Timur lenk 00:11, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi, what's your humble opinion on the heading that I created for the war series pengő banknotes?Timur lenk 00:00, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Or (physical) parameters?Timur lenk 11:20, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it should be standardized what data to be indicated in the banknote and coin boxes and in what order.Timur lenk 12:00, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi! Is there a banknote infobox template (like for the coins)Timur lenk 09:28, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Yep, it is okay to move now. The start date could be 1st Jan 1927.Timur lenk 05:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

CZechoslovakia

I will look it up somewhere. As far as I know, according to the Treaty of Saint Germaine, Banknotes had to be overstamped from 1 Jan 1919. That's why I chose 31 dec 1918 as end date for A-H krone. The situation was so chaotik then, it will be hard to find an exact date...Timur lenk 08:07, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Liszt pengő

Yes you're right. The coin was minted in 1936 (as can be seen on the obverse of the coin). I will correct the issue date.Timur lenk 18:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

CIA World Factbook

The official name (when it’s printed) is The World Factbook (even though “factbook” isn’t a word :P). The correct way to source inflation rates from a The World Factbook would be like this: The World Factbook, 2005 – Zntrip 00:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

The World Factbook is the name of the publication. Adding “CIA” to the front is unnecessary. There could even be a link to The World Factbook Wikipedia article or a link to the CIA Web site. – Zntrip 01:48, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I used the 1991 data instead of the 1993, cause the former refers to whole Czechoslovakia, while the latter only to the Czech Rep.Timur lenk 08:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

tnav refactor

You gotta revert em, it appears working when in template. When in seperate articles, that has mis-matching titles, it doesnt work. --Oblivious 12:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Edit/revert in 'Brittish halfpenny coin

Thank you for your efforts to keep wikipedia clean. However, this edit was valid. Previous editing had broken the sentence's grammar. I was fixing this by changing 'than' to 'then'. I also _did_ leave an edit summary: It was 'minor typo', which I thought represented my change. I have reinstated my edit: however, if you re-revert it, I will leave the article unchanged.Robbak 05:53, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Manx pound

I believe that Manx banknotes were already referenced under sterling banknotes... Mauls 22:34, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see... it's missing in the main body of the article - but the Channel Islands are there. Mauls

GBP

Hi.

Thanks for the message and for letting me use your template. I do have an interest in currencies but I also think that the pound is significant enough to be on the exchange rate section of all currencies. The main reasons are:

Major trade currency 3rd reserve currency behind USD and EUR (and increasing in importance as central banks diversify) The highest valued OECD currency.

As to the positioning of the rate, I didn't stick to any specific order. I thought about doing it in the order of the base rate hierarchy (2nd), reserve states (3rd) or Economic status (4th) but generally I put it in 3rd position.

I found out that British Pound redirects to Pound sterling but I was copying and pasting so I didn't bother to change it.

Thanks for the message, and let me know what plans you have. As an additional point, the Yen wasn't on all the tables so you'll probably have to add it to around half of them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dsh1985 (talk • contribs) 20:21, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

What difference does it make if it's capitalised or not? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dsh1985 (talk • contribs) 11:13, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Well as no-one can see it until they click on the link, it doesn't make any difference, does it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dsh1985 (talk • contribs) 18:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Kyrgyzstani som

You probably know better then I do. I used the Russian Wikipedia article for the Kyrgyzstani som. – Zntrip 21:37, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Chochopk,

I would like to thankyou for your kind comments on the Pakistani rupee talk page. I try to do my best :). Also, if you were interested, the PKR 1 and 2 coins are quite really used today. --Fast track 00:25, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Possible update to the Exchange Rate template

Greetings. I have mirrored the Exchange Rate template and have made a change that might be better than what was set up originally. The way it is set up, the 'to' was set to be the currency page (IE, if the page were about the Euro, from=xxx to=EUR), however I think having the from be the currency of the page (from=EUR to=xxx) would be more logical. You can check out the changes here, User:KyraVixen/Sandbox/ExchRate, and an example of the template in use is here, User:KyraVixen/Sandbox. Any comments would be appreciated. Kyra_~(talk) 19:34, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Not in any capacity to make a bot, I will admit that, but it does seem a good idea if you are able to implement it. However, Xe.com's stats would seem to be off-limit to bots, as it says (in the HTML source (view source, it's a big comment, can't miss it)), they have a commercial service for the feed information, and unfortunately, it's $540 annually. Not sure about other services, just thought I'd point that out. And I will try to assist in any way I can if you wish, but like I said, programmining is not something I am real strong with. Kyra_~(talk) 04:45, 29 September 2006 (UTC)