Talk:Cheetah

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I've cleaned up some vandalism. Please sign your comments, and try to continue discussions on the same subject matter (i.e. speed) underneath the same heading. Slow Graffiti 07:41, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Reproduction and social life 2 Sounds? 3 Replacing Image 4 Headline text 5 Cheetah Speed 6 Queued images 7 Thick brush 8 Prehistoric Cheetahs 9 Speed 10 Bottleneck Concept 11 Classification 12 Reproduction and social life 13 King Cheetahs 14 Pink Cheetahs 15 Main Image (in Tax Box) 16 Grammatically Incorrect 17 Purring 18 Domestication 19 i need to know... 20 Yandman's edit 21 Super Cheetah 21.1 why was the section on the super cheetah species removed? 22 Typical/Atypical 23 Height

[edit] Reproduction and social life

I thought I better add this here just to let you all know. I've adjusted the section with the above name, it was rather messy (i.e. it was all one paragraph) and some parts were slightly incorrect. In my opinion more work needs to be done on it because there's so much that can go under that one heading, it really needs to be split up into sub-sections - like I did for "vocalisations" - and more info added in each. I'll try and get round to this in due time. Meanwhile any comments or issues with the changes, just let me know! Ben 09:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sounds?

Any info on the sounds cheetahs make? All I saw was a mention of purring, but I think they can "yelp" too when in danger. (unsigned)

afaik they rather "chirp", at least it appeared to me like this at BBC's big cat diary. --84.62.133.232 03:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I've added some information on their sounds under "Vocalisations". Hope this helps! Ben 20:58, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Replacing Image

I feel that the second photo in this entry(cheetah in Kenya) is of somewhat low quality(both in terms of resolution and the fact that it is slightly O.O.F.). I was wondering if it would be inappropriate to replace it with either of these photos, and if not, which one would work better in the article. Both photos were taken by myself and licensed under CC-Attribution ShareAlike. I'm somewhat new to this and want to make sure I'm not committing a grave sin by replacing another's photo with my own.

Schuyler s. 20:59, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to do that. If the licence of the photos are adequate, and apparently they are, just go ahead and use them! :) ≈ Ekevu ^talk _contrib 17:07, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Headline text

How can I put this article to the Category:World_records and so as there it will printed something like "Speedest Animal"? (sorry for my English) Setti

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Some genetic researchers were studying Acinonyx jubatus to find out why he had a high abnormal sperm count. They gave a group of these animals a histocompatibility (tissue-type) test.

"This is singular," observed one to the other. "Every one of these cats gave the same answers."

"Aw," drawled the other, "they're all a bunch of cheetahs!"

PierreAbbat

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Does anyone have info on the Cheetah's Population bottleneck

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It is the only cat that cannot completely retract its claws ..... Even completely retracted, the claws remain visible and are used during acceleration.

Isn't the above self-contradictory?

Sebastjan

Yes -- I edited this article and I should have spotted that. Jacquerie27

sort of, but less so if phrased: It is the only cat that cannot completely retract its claws ..... Even when maximally retracted, the cheetah's claws remain visible and are used during acceleration. -- Someone else 08:07 Apr 26, 2003 (UTC)

But "maximally" is a very ugly word and it's implicit in "when retracted" anyway. Jacquerie27

Ok, go for prettiness over clarity then. :) -- Someone else 19:08 Apr 26, 2003 (UTC)

I made it ugly again... Baboo 05:03, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cheetah Speed

The math on the speed isn't very accurate... I'm not sure which is right, but the units don't match up...

110kph = 68.31mph

96.54kph = 60mph

Gordon McCreight - Oct. 6 2004

The point made above is important (from the point of view of accuracy) and is related to the following point. My understanding is that experts believe the fastest "clocked" (documented) speed of a cheetah is close to 65 miles an hour. To push this up to 70 miles an hour is not good for an encyclopedia that aims for accuracy. Superlatives (such as "Guinness Book" numbers) tend to "drift" in the retelling, with a strong upward pressure that is largely unconscious in its exaggeration. Let's find authoritative sources to keep a rational ceiling on the natural tendency toward escalation of this fast cat's velocity. I would urge whoever is most involved in this article to edit the speed back down to 65 mph, until someone can identify an authoritative report of a quicker cheetah. Thanks. 65.223.141.108 17:25, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

MSN Encarta (http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761557976/Cheetah.html) has a much lower speed posted: 93 km/h or 58 mph Diploid 14:31, 5 Feb 2005 (EST)

The cheetah's speed is not the fastest of all terrestrial animals. A wildebeest stampede can reach speeds equal to that of a cheetah. The reason that cheetahs are so well known for how fast they are is because of their spectacular acceleration. The short bursts do reach the speeds that are mentioned above, but it is not true that they are the "fastest". It is more correct to say they have the fastest acceleration of all terrestrial animals. Having said that their top speed is nothing to scoff at as the cheetah is one of the fastest land animals, but I'm only saying that is is not correct to say they are the outright fastest terrestrial animal. My sources are the World Book Encyclopedia 2006, article: 'cheetah'(hard copy), and MSN Encarta (http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761557976/Cheetah.html).

Although the wildebeest speed thing seems to be incorrect, if a faster animal is found the cheetah would be the quickest. Fast refers to top speed, quick refers to acceleration. --BHC 19:47, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

The fastest scientifically measured speed for a Cheetah was recorded by Professor Craig Sharp of Brunel University (London, UK) in 1965, a figure accepted by Guinness; though the unit conversions are inconsistent: 64.3 mph or 29 m/s or 104.4 km/h (the latter two are a match, however 64.3 mph=103.5 km/h). I believe the imperial figure to be the original one, as not only it was mentioned first, but it seems that this figure was converted to meters per second with given accuracy, and further to kilometers per hour with a greater accuracy.

As for the Wildebeest, I've never seen a speed greater than 80 km/h (50 mph) in any respectable source. And the claim that the maximum speed is reached in groups, a stampede, rather than individually seems just absurd. Sounds like BS to me – or is it WBS? --Anshelm '77 00:01, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed the absurdity. Yeah, sure they reach their maximum speed in groups.. --Neofelis Nebulosa (моє обговорення) 07:10, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

The speed was changed to the 70 mph figure. I changed it back to Sharp's figure. Also, where did the info on the acceleration and cars come from? A reference is needed. - Slow Graffiti 00:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Queued images

[edit] Thick brush

In the subchapter "Habitat" we read "thick brush". What's that? An habitat or the result of a vandalism? Manuel Anastácio 02:55, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• Brush refers to a type of habitate somewhere between a light forest and a thickly grassed grassland.

[edit] Prehistoric Cheetahs

I read on a website that during the ice ages, there were giant cheetahs ranging from Europe into Central Asia. I was not sure if they survived in Mongolia or China or how recently. Please let me know if you find anything.

[edit] Speed

I was just watching animal planet and there was a charity event where two cheetahs pursued a dragged purple cloth. There was an officer with a radar gun clocking them (he was positioned so the cheetahs were running straight towards him), one cheetah recorded 58 mph the other 67 mph.

I'm also curious about cheetahs' max speed possible. The figures given by various sources don't converge, leaving a gap of over 10 mph from one end to the other. All the same, I admire very much the animal's stunning sprint which no other creatures on this planet could reproduce. - Lightdawn 03:54, 3 Mar 2006 (UTC)

Cheetah.org is the site maintained the Cheetah Conservation Fund (CCF), an organization pushing cheetah awareness/conservation. They state that cheetahs can run 70 mph (112.7 km/h). They (led by a leading authority on cheetahs, Dr. Laurie Marker) are scientists who would obviously have sources for such a claim. The only 'shift' I can imagine is perhaps a shift to make it an even '70 mph' to the public, but I do not suspect this is the case.

Earthwatch Institute Journal has an article (in Vol. 23 Issue 1, and elsewhere) stating that cheetahs can reach 110 km/h (68.4 mph). If the cheetah.org claim is shifted, it could be based on the same data used here (as both are from the CCF).

In the Journal of Zoology, Sharp has an article devoted entirely to clocking the speed of cheetahs (1997, Volume 241, titled 'Timed running speed of a cheetah'). His conclusion is 64 mph (103 km/h).

I'm sure I've read other figures as well; I'll have to dig up those sources tomorrow. In any event, the current 62 mph claim used in the article is obviously low. Slow Graffiti 07:41, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

More references for cheetah speed - Hildebrand in the Journal of Mammalogy also came to the conclusion of110 km/h (68.4 mph) in 1959 ("Motions of the running cheetah and horse") and again in 1961 ("Further studies in the locomotion of the cheetah"). These are obviously older studies.

I am changing the article to read 64 mph (103 km/h) according to the Journal of Zoology referenced above. If a more recent source can be cited with a different speed projection, please fill the rest of us in here. - Slow Graffiti 01:52, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

From this discussion it remains debatable whether the cheetah is indeed faster compared to a wildebeest stampede: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildebeest#Stampede The wildebeest figure was given as 65 mph, but from the apparent lack of evidence (i.e. well-documented studies conducted on each species's maximum speed) supporting the wildebeest claim as compared to the cheetah's, this issue should remain open for now.Ming2020 09:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for integrating the information into the article. Well done. I hope some more reliable information becomes available in the near future. I'll be looking out. - Slow Graffiti 18:25, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bottleneck Concept

These are the findings from which scientists assert the bottleneck idea:

"In 1981 Stephen O'Brien and colleagues from the US National Cancer Institute began an investigation in to cheetah breeding difficulties. Forty semen samples were taken from 18 members of the captive South African population and compared to those of domestic cats. Spermatozoal concentrations in the cheetah samples were found to be ten less tiomes than those of domestic cats. In addition, over 70% of the cheetah spermatozoa were morphologically abnormal, compared to only 30% in their domestic counterparts.

"To compound these problems a study of over 200 gene loci from South African cheetahs has revealed that the population contains ten to 100 times less genetic variation than other mammalian species. These data, O'Brien suggests, place the cheetah in a position similar to that of inbred laboratory mice, indicating a population bottleneck in its recent evolutionary history. This means that the cheetah population was, at one time, reduced to only a few individuals - from which today's cheetah population, leaving it less able to survive in the face of environmental change, disease or threats."

To further prove their inbred relatedness, unrelated cheetahs exchanged skin grafts. This allows monitoring of the Major Histocompatibility Complex, the "most polymorphic locus in vertebrates," which codes for MHC molecules - antigen-presenting glycoproteins present on T lymphocytes. These are responsible for recognizing foreign molecules in the body, such as skin grafts from another organism, and triggering an immune response. The acceptance of skin grafts from unrelated cheetahs far exceeded the acceptance among unrelated domestic cats (which is usually rejection).

Reference: Santer, R. (2001). 'Letting the cat out of the bag.' Biologist, 48: 72-74.

Summed up, the genetic variation among cheetahs is similar to that of identical twins. This explains the past (cheetahs experienced a population bottleneck, and are now descendents of the small surviving group) as well as the present and future (difficulty with reproductive success because of typical problems that come with inbreeding). Slow Graffiti 07:41, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Classification

I was tossing around the idea of filling out the 'Classification' section with actual taxonomic information (e.g. that in the 'Genetics' section), and moving all of the info about the word "cheetah" (as interesting as it is, it isn't a classification) to the intro paragraph. Any strenuous objections here? - Metanoid 20:42, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I've been preparing a completely reorganized setup for this page, using the Gray Wolf article as a standard (though its obviously got more information on it). I think a lot of the subjects here are mashed together in inappropriate places. Give me a few more days and I'll post details. One of the ideas - the "description" shouldn't spend all its time comparing cheetahs to other large cats (this should actually go with Taxonomy, probably, along with the Classification section). While it isn't exactly material for Taxonomy, I think the extended etymology of "cheetah" is inappropriate content for the introduction paragraph. Is there another animal page with such an extended etymology? Does it warrant its own section? - Slow Graffiti 02:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reproduction and social life

The text reads: "The cheetah can live over twenty years, but their life is often short, for they lose their speed with old age. ... Life span is up to 12 years in wild, but up to 20 years in captivity."

• • There seems to be a disconnect between the life span in situ and ex situ. First the reader is led to believe that the life span can be as high as 20 years in the wild -- "for they lose their speed with old age."

Liz K.

[edit] King Cheetahs

The section needs a description of what a king cheetah would acyually look like. It only describes what it doesn't look like. Williamb 01:24, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

From the Description section: "Cheetahs also have a rare fur pattern mutation: cheetahs with larger, blotchy, merged spots are known as 'King Cheetahs'." Are operating on the presumption that a reader will read the whole article, or skip to sections of immediate interest? Should the description of King Cheetahs be moved from Description to King Cheetahs? I think so, especially since they are so rare. - Slow Graffiti 02:05, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

There is already a king cheetah article, so I have suggested a merge. Either that, or the king cheetah info needs to be moved from the cheetah article to the king cheetah article. Otherwise, redundancy exists. Synapopyse 03:13, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd propose that the separate article remain the main source, and the subject be briefly addressed here; not alone, but in a paragraph that mentions other possible colour variations. - Slow Graffiti 03:41, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The main article is a stub, anyway. I'd suggest merging it and making King Cheetah a redirect. Tigerhawkvok 22:38, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I think a separate article is warranted, given the detailed information about king cheetah spottings there. Too much detail for the main cheetah article. - Slow Graffiti 18:25, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I think merging the King Cheetah article would just add to the jumble of information that's here already. What's in the main Cheetah article covers quite a lot of topics and I think seperating them up better organises the information. Ben 21:48, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the King Cheetah article should be merged with this one. The King Cheetah article offers no further information about the Cheetah species other than that it is a mutation. And if that's the case, it should have a section here since they are essentially the same animal. IanUK 09:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I am in favour of separate articles. Maybe have a link from here. I have old encyclopaedia entries with old sightings of king cheetah, and *possible* differences from a normal one. interesting enough, and with a historical and cryptozoology based search for the king cheetah having been undertaken, i think a separate article is called for. 70.20.103.225 05:04, 5 October 2006 (UTC). Whoops that was me talking Pradiptaray 05:05, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pink Cheetahs

A recent edit of the article stated the existence of pink cheetahs. It wreaks to me of vandalism. In all my studying, I've never heard of such. The idea of the "cat of the sun" exists, but nothing else here. - Slow Graffiti 18:37, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Main Image (in Tax Box)

Where'd the SwiftCheetah.jpg image go? Why was it deleted? - Slow Graffiti 16:47, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Grammatically Incorrect

"Unlike males and other felines, females do not establish territories." This sentence seems to imply that a female is a type of feline (indicated by the use of the word, "other"). 15 August 2006

Although it doesn't really imply that to me, I've edited it to clarify "female cheetahs" rather than just females. Thanks for pointing that out. Ben 22:17, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Purring

conflicting statements in the article, are cheetahs the only big cats the purr or not? "By contrast, lions, tigers, leopards, and jaguars can roar but cannot purr, except while exhaling. "... "Purring is made when the cheetah is contented, usually during pleasant social meetings (e.g. a mother with her cubs). Out of all of the Big Cats, cheetahs are the only ones that purr."

Hi Mazzawi, cheetahs are the only big cat that can purr on both the inhale and the exhale. Other big cats can purr - but only on the exhale. Thanks for pointing that out and I've edited the article to refelct that. Please remember to sign your name with: ~~~~ after your comments. Thanks. Ben 22:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Domestication

"In much of their former range they were domesticated by aristocrats and used to hunt antelopes in much the same way as is still done with members of the greyhound group of dogs." I was under the impression that cheetahs could be tamed but could not be domesticated. The aristocrats didn't breed cheetahs like greyhounds, they captured wild ones and tamed them. --BHC 19:47, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] i need to know...

why can a cheetah run as fast as it does??i need to know for class..

[edit] Yandman's edit

Hi Yandman, I did not think that your changes were an improvement to the article. You cut out perfectly relevant facts and I don't believe that is "sounded like a kid's wildlife programme." If that is the case then prehaps you could rewrite the facts to a tone you consider more appropriate for an encyclopedia, rather than just deleting them. Thank you. Ben ^(talk) 23:26, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Ben. The problem is that inserting these facts into the article will always be problematic. The fact is that the Cheetah does 0-60 in 3.5 secs. The rest, while being true, is unnecessary interpretation. Why those specific cars? Why that specific airplane? They're not the fastest vehicles in their class, they're not the slowest, e.t.c... While these facts are interesting, they're better off being in the body of the article (if they're included at all), because the intro has to keep to the important stuff. In much the same way that we wouldn't put "it weighs as much as 532 african elephants" in the intro to the 747. yandman 16:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Super Cheetah

While many Cheetahs are said to reach speeds of 70 mph(120 km/h), a new variation has been rumored to apear nocturnally across the plains, said to reach double the speed of what was originally thought. Animal Planet has an upcoming documentary entitled: "Super Cheetahs: The Investigation" in which famed naturalist Austin Stevens tracks and records the new species, aptly called "Super Cheetahs". Their wild speed is due to genetic engineering in which gentic scienctists have embedded bionic and mechanical machinery to increase performance, and adrenaline production. The Super Cheetah can reach speeds up to 127 mph (204 km/h). The species diet consists solely on metal. In result of this, many documentary vans and cameras have been demolished, thought to be snacks. The actual existence of said species is speculated.

Probably because you provided no reliable sources. JonHarder 03:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] why was the section on the super cheetah species removed?

please respond, and i need to know why wikipedia denies knowledge

• There is no reason to beleive it actually exists.--Marhawkman 16:04, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Typical/Atypical

"...atypical member of the cat family (Felidae) that hunts by speed rather than by stealth or pack tactics"... This gives the false (?) impression that "pack tactics" are typical of Felids. Aren't lionesses atypical in their group tactics? --Wetman 09:32, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Wetman, pack tactics are not typical of felids, I think the first part of the statement is seperate from the second part about its hunting. Although in what way it is atypical the author of that sentence didn't think to say. Ben ^(talk) 23:42, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Height

How tall are these things? Xiner 20:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)