Talk:Champ Car

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This article is part of the WikiProject American Open Wheel Racing, a collaborative effort to improve and standardize articles related to Open Wheel Racing in the United States, with an emphasis on the Indy Racing League and Champ Car. The projects encompasses a wide range of open wheel topics. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

See also Talk:IndyCar for much more on the same subject.

Contents 1 Article content 2 Proposed move 3 CART before the... 4 Comparison with F1 cars 5 History 6 New Section Needed: Methonal Fuel can be dangerous 7 Is this really "worldwide"? 8 Do people believe this link belongs?

[edit] Article content

I have asked repeatedly that we place AAA, USAC, and CART history under their own categories. It is ridiculous to place this information under the Champ Car heading. Until this is done, I will continue to delete this history out of the Champ Car page on a regular basis.

As long as Champ Car recognises this history as their own, we should recognise it as theirs. This history was licensed by CART, and that carried over to Champ Car once the CART assets were purchased. --74.108.100.177 22:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

CART, AAA, USAC, CART, and CHAMPcar have not all sanctioned the same series. That is legally incorrect and only your personal opinion. As long as this states that a Champ Car is short for the Champ Car World Series, all that other history is out and should be placed in separate articles for AAA, USAC, and CART.

When OWRS purchased the assets of CART, they purchased all history that went along with it. The champ car name was used in the last CART season. AAA, USAC, CART, ChampCar are all considered to have sanctioned the same series. --CorSter 01:04, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Stop listing any history of Champ Car World Series with CART, USAC, or AAA. These series were not sanctioned by Champ Car. CART maybe can be part of the history because it was purchased by Champ Car...but USAC and AAA were not purchased by Champ Car and so their history is not able to be claimed.

I believe that there was some sort of legal decision that allowed Champ Car (the company formed in 2004 that runs the current Champ Car World Series) the rights to use all the AAA and USAC history. I have seen several Champ Car races (2004+) that include AAA and USAC era footage in television broadcasts. If you look on the Champ Car website, history of AAA and USAC championships are included. I'm not sure if CART had these rights but it appears the new Champ Car does. So, legally, Champ Car IS the descendent of CART, USAC and AAA. --RA64 18:36, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't understand why the list of AAA and USAC champions was removed from the article. The person who removed them said it was because "CART did not sanction those titles", yet this article seems to be about Champ Car racing, and not specifically the CART sanctioning body, although a search for 'CART' does redirect to Champ Car. The AAA and USAC championships are generally considered the predecessors to the CART sanctioned championship, and the current Champ Car Championship, and the History section of this article does indeed include information about the AAA and USAC championships.

This article is somewhat misnamed; it's more about the championships and sanctioning bodies than about the cars. It ought to be split into at least two articles, and maybe three (depending on whether or not you split the championships and sanctioning bodies). But the cars definitely deserve a separate article. (And the content of IndyCars ought to be merged into the cars article.)

This article is about the championship series - the Champ Car World Series. IndyCars should NOT be merged - that is an entirely different trademark of an entirely different series today. "Champ Car" and "IndyCar" describe two different race cars operated by two different sanctioning bodies - the Champ Car World Series, Inc. and the Indy Racing League. "IndyCars" today have nothing to do with "Champ Cars" - they're entirely different things and it's inappropriate to call them IndyCars. Accordingly, I've removed "IndyCars" from the article. --FCYTravis 20:10, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

OK, so let's have Champ Car World Series and Indy Racing League as the articles for the two series, and the article for the cars can refer to them both. But as I pointed out over on Talk:IndyCar, historically the cars that ran the Indy 500 were formally and officially known as "Champ" cars. So you cannot keep them out of an article on Champ cars. Noel (talk) 23:47, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The articles for the cars should not be the same - any more than you would put Formula 1 cars in with them because "they both have four wheels, an engine in the back and wings." Of course there should be mentions of the history of both, but a Champ Car IS NOT an IndyCar and an IndyCar IS NOT a Champ Car. One article for "IndyCars" and another for "Champ Cars" - of course each referring to the other. The history of each and how they are intertwined is of course important - but we would completely mislead readers by calling "IndyCars" "Champ Cars" or vice versa. In today's lexicon they are two completely separate things and have been for nearly a decade. --FCYTravis 04:13, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

If you want to be that technical about it, then we need at least three articles for the cars: one for pre-1995 cars, when there was only one spec (although two different sanctioning bodies), one for post-95 IRL cars, and one for post-95 Champ Cars. (I say "at least" because I don't know if you want to distinguish between the USAC cars and the post-79/pre-95 CART cars, etc.)

Although now that I look at the Indy Racing League page, I see their cars are described there, so to me it would make more sense to do the same thing for the Champ Car World Series - put the post-95 cars for that series on that page. Noel (talk) 05:11, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

What would make sense to me is if we want separate articles on the car specs, have one for "IndyCar" which first talks about what a current IndyCar is, and briefly mentions its past history as the name for what would currently be called a Champ Car. Champ Car would be a second article again talking first about what a current Champ Car is, and then delving into more detail into the history of the various cars that contended for the National Championship Trail... or would that belong in a new page called The Utter And Complete Debacle That Is Open Wheel Racing's History? Someone's going to write a great dissertation on this someday, but I digress. I just think we need to categorize as much as possible to avoid confusing people - it's a tangled web already just figuring out USAC vs CCWS vs IRL vs OWRS vs CART, and I think we need to as clearly as possible link the sanctioning bodies to their respective series. IRL = "IndyCar" from 2003-present, CART/CCWS = IndyCar from 1979 (with USAC) to 1996, Champ Car from 1997 to the present. --FCYTravis 05:28, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

PS: Try looking at Special:Whatlinkshere/Champcars. An extremely long list of things like here, and even ignoring the ones that come here through redirects, many of them (e.g. Ray Harroun) are clearly linked here for the generic meaning, not for the Champ Car World Series. Noel (talk) 00:09, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

My suggestion is to work out how many article we want first, and what each will contain - we can work out the exact titles later. Noel (talk) 06:11, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Do you seriously suggest a new article? For what, every change in spec? Or do you N think ChampCars race at Indy? Where do you think "IndyCar" comes from? Someplace has to be a "root"; roadsters, Indycars, Champcars all come from the same beginnings. Trekphiler 14:14, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

How can an article with the title Champ Car not be about the car? Champ Car World Series should have its own article. As should CART, IRL, USAC, etc. The name Champ Car has a definite and demonstrable historical context. Regardless of changes in sanctioning bodies, today's Champ Cars trace their lineage and evolution directly back to a time when many of these organzations didn't even exist.

[edit] Proposed move

• I propose to move this article to "Champ Car" - the official title of both the car and the series. "Champcar" all one word is neither as widely used nor is it correct terminology for the car or series. Two words. --FCYTravis 08:01, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
• Support violet/riga (t) 20:23, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 20:23, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] CART before the...

Silly trivia: it's said the one difference between CART & the Taliban is, CART has 3 Americans. (None of them are quick enough to win in F1, unlike a Canadian I could name...) Trekphiler 08:21, 24 December 2005

Too bad he hasn't won since... (Assuming you mean the younger) Counterfit 04:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comparison with F1 cars

I think changing "(since F1 imposed stricter engine specifications from 2006)" to "(since F1 switched to smaller engines for/from 2006)" would be a little more accurate Counterfit 04:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Not being an expert in either formula, there were a few cases where I wasn't sure to which car the description applied. I can't make these changes myself without some research. Perhaps someone who already understands these differences would be interested in making this section a little clearer.

Great article, though. This section, in particular, was just what I've been looking for. A slightly clearer delineation is all I ask. Thanks

- Rockthing 16:55, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History

Please if any 1 can, can you fill in the champ car blanks on my user page please. MotorSportMCMXC 21:00, 20 July 2006

[edit] New Section Needed: Methonal Fuel can be dangerous

Methonal burns with an invisible flame. As such, it can be vary dangerous. I think a special section is needed to mention that and the precautions taken by safety crews. For instance, if you see a driver get out and start rolling around, he or she is presumed to be on fire.--Will 07:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

it's 'methanol' & the facts about methanol should not be in this article, the precautions taken in ChampCar should be Danlibbo 23:07, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is this really "worldwide"?

the box on the side claims that this is a worldwide sport however it is referred to as american, perhaps North American would be better? MatthewMain 15:40, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Well as far as I know, they still have a race in Australia. They'll be racing in Europe again next year, and the Korean race that never was seems to be a Chinese race that may be. I'm willing to call that world wide.Mustang6172 04:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Do people believe this link belongs?

User 207.162.229.12 added "Champcar Hot News, Rumors, and Commentary" to the external link section. Since that section was strictly links to offical sites for the ChampCar series and races, I removed the link and brought it here for discussion.

It does not help that the user in question has been warned many times about vandalism and NPOV. Will (Talk - contribs) 19:45, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes I believe the link does belong considering they insider information on Champ Car directly from the people who own and run it. They receive information regarding the series before anyone else on the street. I would add this site considering there very strong promotion of Champ Car, not to mention there long history with the organizing dating back before the IRL/Cart Split. I believe they are on the most definitive information of Champ Car news and rumors. Proxu01 17:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I tend to lean to limiting external links to offical sites only. Will (Talk - contribs) 01:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)