Talk:Cesar Millan

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Contents

[edit] 5/5/06 Lawsuit

He just got sued, somebody wanna include that? It's just as notable as being parodied on South Park.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/05/05/tv.us.dogwhisperer.ap/index.html

Sure, I'll work it in there.

I think thats trash and should not be included in wikipedia. If you want to include it you should wait to see if this is truth or just someone flinging rumors.LdyDragonfly 18:31, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The lawsuit & why it should be included

Keep in mind I like Cesar. It's important, however, to keep the article up to date; it doesn't matter whether or not the lawsuit is justified. It just happened; and this article will state it THAT WAY, just as the CNN article states it that way (it does not claim that the lawsuit is justified). 67.164.209.137 19:21, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Is this the rule, coming from a newbie here, to add in CNN info, even if it doesn't seem to hold much truth and is more rumor then fact? LdyDragonfly 19:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
To me, it seems to hold a lot of truth (the lawsuit itself being filed). Whether or not the allegations in the lawsuit are justified is unkown, which is why this article and the CNN article does not claim that the lawsuit is justified. However, it looks as though the lawsuit ITSELF is real, and not a rumor, which is why the article should reflect that. Also, the guideline is to add what is generally considered to be true; not what is actually fact (if Wikipedia existed back in the day when people believed the world was flat; than Wiki SHOULD state that the world is flat). But I don't think this guideline needs to be applied here; because the lawsuit IS real, not a rumor. Just don't know if it's justified (or if it was Cesar's fault). 67.164.209.137 19:21, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I have to be somewhat reluctant on this but I guess I should understand. However, I'm surprised if your taking such a stand why are you not a logged in user rather then an IP??? LdyDragonfly 19:41, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
A single lawsuit does not necessarily meet the standards of Wikipedia:Notability. If it did, there would be thousands of Wal-Mart lawsuit wikipedia pages.  ;) To meet the standard, it needs to be the subject of other third party articles (granted, the CNN article is a start). But the fact that an anonymous user immediately came to Wikipedia to post an alert on both the Dog Whisperer page and the Cesar Millan page, strikes me more as someone with an agenda, than a bonafide desire to improve the quality of Wikipedia articles. If the information does go into the article, it should be carefully reviewed to ensure that it stays neutral (see WP:NPOV), and is not promoting some attorney's agenda somewhere. --Elonka 22:04, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
LdyDragonfly; one doesn't need a user name to make decisions in order to help improve an article. Elonka: Well, the Notability essay isn't a guideline, just a belief among some users. The essay is usually applied to articles; not sure how you could narrow it down for whether or not you could add a piece of information into an article. Also, if you go to the Wal-Mart article, there probably is a section devoted to criticisms and lawsuits made against it. I feel that the CNN article is enough; although, I'm willing to bet there are other news sites reporting on this lawsuit as well (this doesn't matter, as one is probably enough). Another thing is, it doesn't matter if it was an agenda or not; the article is valid -- besides, if this person has an agenda against Cesar Millan, but provides something that would still benefit the article, including that information into the article will only prove to the person that we are not bias for or against Cesar, just neutral (our goal is simply to improve an article) -- we're basically doing what the person didn't expect us to do.
Don't worry! I've made it as neutral as I see possible. 67.164.209.137 00:41, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
I too find his motives questionable, especially since he was here within hours of the news - and also phrased it in a way that implicated Millan as at fault, and not Millan being sued because something happened at a center that was owned by him. Oogles 02:01, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Place of Birth

Cesar Millan was born in Culican, Mexico and NOT Mexico City, Mexico. This is clearly stated in his book and on shows he's in. (Sorry if my format is off I'm still a newbie here) LdyDragonfly 02:22, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not a Certified Animal Behavorist

Added the line "not certified as an applied animal behavorist" due to the fact he is not. Text below explains what applied animal behavior is, how one gets certified, and a link to current members. From the Animal Behavior Society website:


What is Applied Animal Behavior? The field of Applied Animal Behavior specializes in the behaviour of companion animals in relation to behavioural problems and training, the behaviour of farm, zoo and laboratory animals (i.e animal management and welfare) and studies of the behaviour of wild animals when these studies are relevant from an applied perspective, (i.e. wildlife management, pest management or nature conservation) as well as methodological studies.

Animal behaviorists are often educated in a variety of disciplines, including psychology biology, zoology or animal science. A professional applied animal behaviorist has demonstrated expertise in theprinciples of animal behavior, in the research methods of animal behavior, in the application of animal behavior principles to applied behavior problems and in the dissemination of knowledge about animal behavior through teaching and research. http://www.animalbehavior.org/ABSAppliedBehavior/


THE ANIMAL BEHAVIOR SOCIETY PROGRAM FOR CERTIFICATION OF APPLIED ANIMAL BEHAVIORISTS

Prepared for the ABS Board of Professional Certification, August, 1990. (Revised Jan 2002)


WHAT IS CERTIFICATION?


The Animal Behavior Society (ABS) is the leading professional organization in North America for

the study of animal behavior. The Society recognizes that animal-oriented groups or agencies,

businesses, and the general public seek professional advice about the animal behavior in general or

about behavioral problems of animals. Certification is the means by which the ABS demonstrates to the

public that certain individuals meet the minimum standards of education, experience and ethics required

of a professional applied animal behaviorist as set forth by the Society.


Animal behaviorists can be educated in a variety of disciplines, including psychology biology,

zoology or animal science. A professional applied animal behaviorist has demonstrated expertise in the

principles of animal behavior, in the research methods of animal behavior, in the application of animal

behavior principles to applied behavior problems and in the dissemination of knowledge about animal

behavior through teaching and research.


Certification constitutes recognition by the Animal Behavior Society that, to its best knowledge,

the certificant meets the educational, experiental and ethical standards required by the Society for

professional applied animal behaviorists. Certification does not constitute a guarantee that the applicant

meets a specific standard of competence or possesses specific knowledge.


WHO SHOULD BE CERTIFIED?


Certification is beneficial to anyone who consults with the public or with other professionals about

the applications of animal behavior knowledge or about specific behavioral problems of animals.


Examples are persons working in a clinical animal behavior setting (i.e., involving the diagnosis and

treatment of animal behavior problems), and those consulting with agricultural interests, zoos, research

institutions or governmental agencies about the behavior or behavior problems of wild or domestic

animals. By consulting with a certified professional applied animal behaviorist, the client can be assured

of the qualifications of the consultant.


WHAT ARE THE LEVELS OF PROFESSIONAL CERTIFICATION?


There are two levels of certification: Associate Applied Animal Behaviorist and Certified Applied

Animal Behaviorist. The Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist category has more rigorous educational and

experiental requirements. Requirements for both are listed below.


WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS FOR CERTIFICATION?


Associate Applied Animal Behaviorist


The successful applicant must meet requirements of education, experience and endorsement to

become certified as an Associate Applied Animal Behaviorist. Educational requirements include a

Master's Degree from an accredited college or university in a biological or behavioral science with an

emphasis in animal behavior. The degree should include a research based thesis. Undergraduate and/or

graduate coursework must include 21 semester credits in behavioral science courses

including 6 semester credits in ethology, animal behavior and/or

comparative psychology and 6 semester credits in animal learning, conditioning and or animal

psychology (e.g., experimental psychology).


Experiential requirements include a minimum of two years of professional experience in applied

animal behavior. The applicant must demonstrate the ability to perform independently and

professionally in applied animal behavior. Examples include performing independent studies, data

analysis, formulation and testing of hypotheses and professional writing. Also required is evidence of

significant experience working interactively with a particular species (such as as a researcher, research

assistant, or intern working with a certified applied animal behaviorist) prior to working independently

with the species in a clinical animal behavior setting.


Endorsement requirements include the provision of a minimum of three letters of recommendation

from regular ABS members affirming the applicant's professional experience in the areas listed above.

Only two of these letters may come from the same institution.


Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist


Educational and experiental requirements include a doctoral degree from an accredited college or

university in a biological or behavioral science with an emphasis on animal behavior, including five years

of professional experience, or a doctorate from an accredited college or university in veterinary medicine

plus two years in a university-approved residency in animal behavior and three additional years of

professional experience in applied animal behavior. Any of these degrees must include the same

coursework requirements as the Associate Applied Animal Behaviorist. The successful applicant must

also demonstrate a thorough knowledge of the literature, scientific principles and principles of animal

behavior, demonstrate original contributions or original interpretations of animal behavior information

and show evidence of significant experience working interactively with a particular species as a

researcher, research assistant or intern with a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist prior to working

independently with the species in a clinical animal behavior setting.


Endorsement requirements are identical to those of the Associate Applied Animal Behaviorist.

Exceptions to any of the above requirements will be considered by the Board of Professional

Certification upon receipt of a written statement explaining why and how the intent of the educational

and experiential requirements are satisfied.


http://www.animalbehavior.org/Applied/Pamph3N-Jan2002.htm


Current Members: http://www.animalbehavior.org/Applied/CAAB_directory.html

[edit] Downplayed "Not a Certified Animal Behavorist"

I felt this needed to be stepped down in significance. Two reasons. First, having it right at the start set the wrong tone, as if somehow not being certified made him a dubious character or unqualified in some way. Secondly, looking over the Animal Behavior Society web site, they are largely concerned with scientific studies of animal behaviour. They have nothing to do with domestic animal training or therapy except where an academic might be studying these things for scientific reasons. So Millan not being a member of ABS is meaningless, because he wouldn't need to be a member, any more than he would need to be a member of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons.

Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 08:23, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I think toning it down was proper. The information is still in the article, but it's not necessary as "top paragraph" information. --Elonka 16:10, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] STILL MISLEADING

Neale,

The reason I added "Not a Certified Animal Behavorist" in the first paragraph is to offset the vague term "dog behaviorst" in the first sentence. Animal Behavior is a science, and Mr. Millan is being dubious when he (or anyone else) tries to insinuate that he has any formal training. Members of the Animal Behavior Society are actually animal behavorists and actually DO work with domestic pets such as cats and dogs. That's what "applied" means in the title "Cerified APPLIED Animal Behavorist." From their website:

Who should be Certified?

Certification is beneficial to anyone who consults with the public or with other professionals about the applications of animal behavior knowledge or about specific behavioral problems of animals.

Examples are persons working in a clinical animal behavior setting (i.e., involving the diagnosis and treatment of animal behavior problems), and those consulting with agricultural interests, zoos, research institutions or governmental agencies about the behavior or behavior problems of wild or domestic animals. By consulting with a certified professional applied animal behaviorist, the client can be assured of the qualifications of the consultant.

http://www.animalbehavior.org/ABSAppliedBehavior/certified-applied-animal-behaviorists/the-animal-behavior-society-program-for-certification-of-applied-animal-behaviorists/

They really are the only serious originzation when it comes to diagnosing and treating pet behavior problems. To become certified, you must have extentsive education, experience and publish original research studies.(see qualifications in my first post)

I can call myself a doctor, astronaunt, or sea captain - that does not make me one.



As you addded, Mr. Millan is a member of "The International Association of Canine Professionals", which according to the first page on its website: (is) For DOG TRAINERS; GROOMERS; KENNEL OWNERS; VETERINARIANS; PET SITTERS; DOG HANDLERS; RETAILERS; PET FIRST AID INSTRUCTORS; BOUNDARY FENCE INSTALLERS & ALL PROFESSIONALS WITHIN THE DOG WORLD

Also from their site: What is the definition of a Canine Professional for the IACP? A Canine Professional is an individual pursuing or engaged in an occupation, vocation, or activity related to dogs. Examples: Dog Trainer, Veterinarian, Groomer, Kennel Manager, etc. Anyone in the field of dogs can become a member.

Who can Join? Anyone who qualifies as a Canine Professional. There are three main levels of membership; PROFESSIONAL Member, ASSOCIATE Member, and AFFILIATE Member. These categories allow the IACP the opportunity to welcome all persons, from the student or hobbyist to the owner of a canine-related business. As a part of our networking and educational opportunities, we encourage all those involved in the canine industry to join our organization. For more information on the membership levels and benefits, visit our Membership Section http://www.dogpro.org/index.php?pageID=29

To put this organization before ABS implies that one is equal to the other. They are not. Cleaned it up a bit to make it more clear.

Hiya, just as a tip, your arguments on Wikipedia are likely to receive more weight if they are calm, short, to the point, and avoid use of ALL CAPS section headers. I recommend reading Wikipedia:Wikiquette. Other than that, your change to the actual article looks fine to me. --Elonka 18:01, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Does indeed look better now. I am a bit worried that the entire entry is a little negative, and focuses on the controversy rather than on his successes. Whether the one outweighs the other, I do not know.
Membership of professional associations, or accreditation by them, is somewhat debatable as far as being "good" at something goes. I have a PhD in palaeontology, so could be called a professional palaeontologist. But I have met many amateurs with more experience of field work and fossil collecting, understanding of stratigraphy, and all round general knowledge than I do. They are "better" palaeontologists than I am. But they're mailmen, store clerks, etc., not "professionals". Of course being a therapist is somewhat different, the point has mileage here -- just because he isn't part of the traditional profession doesn't mean he isn't any good.
Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 19:47, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Agreed on the "little negative" part, so I bought and read Millan's book, and expanded the article considerably [1]. I hope you like it.  :) It definitely needs some pictures though to break up the text. We need a picture of his bookcover, and maybe a couple public domain images of dogs or Mexico to spice up the article. --Elonka 17:26, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
It looks very good now. The controversy is in the right place, and balanced against his fame/success. The contrast between the casual use of animal behaviourist and that recognised within science is clear, which I like. All in all, much improved. What I'd like to see is _why_ some people criticize "dominance theory" -- it seems to me that that is exactly what dogs need, and is surely what they experience as wolves in a pack? So what's the issue here? Anyway, good work! Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 18:42, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edited Criticism and Controversy

Took out the following under "Criticism and Controversy":

However, it should be noted that membership of this society does not infer profesional competance or ability and non memership is not a sign of anything other than choice. Though Cesar has come under criticism many so called academic behaviourists find it hard to agree on any number of the theories that abound in this area, dominance being just one. In the end it is the client who is responsible for chosing the behaviourist and many go to experienced trainers who have developed as behavioural consultants over many years of working and study. It is a sad fact that a number of academic behaviourist do not own dogs and have never done so, some consider it unimportant to see or work with the animal directly, as they feel the prognosis and treatment can be provided remotely. Most dog owners need and in fact want direct help and behaviourists like Cesar provide this irrespective of academic snobbery.'

..and changed Mr. Millan to not being a "member" of ABS to not being "certfied". It is true that anyone can be a member of ABS (just like anyone can be a member of a historical society)- but obviously the distinction here is certification. Mr. Millan cannot be certified, as he so far lacks the proper education.

The statement "It is a sad fact that a number of academic behaviourist do not own dogs and have never done so, some consider it unimportant to see or work with the animal directly, as they feel the prognosis and treatment can be provided remotely" is not factual. The job of Certified Animal Behaviorists is to work directly with pets.

The statement "Most dog owners need and in fact want direct help and behaviourists like Cesar provide this irrespective of academic snobbery."'' is biased opinion.

I don't think there would be that much controversey if Cesar Millan just referred to himself as a "Dog Trainer". What's wrong with that? It's when he starts using language like "Dog Psychology Center" and "behaviorist" that he seems to attach a unearned credibility to himself.

[edit] Comment from producer

THIS IS IMPORTANT:

Cesar has never referred to himself as an "Animal Behaviorist." He has no college degrees and makes no bones about that, no pun intended. On the show, we call him a "Dog Behavior Expert" for that very reason. He does not call himself a "dog trainer" because training has traditionally been associated with teaching a dog to follow commands, such as "sit, stay, come, heel." Cesar rehabiliates dogs with behavior problems, and helps owners understand how to see the world through their dogs' eyes, which he interprets as "dog psychology."

As for the lawsuit issues, will they be updated with future information as it becomes available? Such as the fact that neither Flody Suarez nor his dog were ever clients of Cesar's - but were clients of another,less experienced trainer who was "borrowing" the facility that day? Seems a pertinent fact, no?

Remember, anyone can file any lawsuit at any time. Does this then mean that every lawsuit ever filed against Wikipedia subjects should be included in their pages? If so, better get editing, guys.

- --64.12.116.71 15:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)Melissa Jo Peltier - Co-Executive Producer, Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan and his co-author on Cesar's Way.

Thank you Melissa, and welcome to Wikipedia. I enjoyed your book, and am a fan of the show.  :) I'm not a Wikipedia administrator, but I'm an executive producer too, who helps out as a Wikipedia volunteer in updating some media-related articles. As general advice on helping improve the article here on Wikipedia, I recommend that you create a login name so as to have an "identity" here, which will help to identify your comments. I also encourage you to be as polite and civil as possible, since anything perceived as "demanding" in an autobiographical way, can generate bad feeling among other Wikipedia editors and delay article updates. Please read Wikipedia:Assume good faith. As for updating the trial information, the best way that you can assist with getting the bio updated, is to provide links to newspaper or magazine articles with updated information, or, put trial documents online so that they can be referred to as references. Wikipedia has a strict policy on "No original research", which means that before any information can go into a Wikipedia article, it first has to appear in an outside source. Check Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research. You are also welcome to contact me directly if email or a phone call would be easier communication for you. Just click on my name for contact information. :) --Elonka 17:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dog behaviorist title

In response to the above concern by an anonymous user claiming to be the producer for Millan's show, I investigated the "dog behaviorist" title claim. However, it seems pretty clear that the title is referenced. For example, here, on the National Geographic page promoting the show, Millan is listed as "dog-behaviorist-to-the-stars" [2]. And at this page, tmz.com, he is again listed as a dog "behaviorist".[3] What do other editors think? Should we change his title on the bio page? --Elonka 21:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, "dog behaviourist" is like saying you're a healer or athlete or writer. It can mean all kinds of things, and people within one camp will be very critical of people in another camp using that title. As far as I can see, it isn't like saying you're an public school teacher, MD, or lawyer, which implies credentials, certification, and membership of a trade union. So, if you put dog behaviourist here, some people will see that as a fair description of what he does, while others will say he's a charlatan. Cheers, Neale Monks 12:02, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
It's simple - To be a "Dog behaviorist" you need no degrees, you need no training, you need no certification. It isn't like a veternarian, or lawyer as above person mentioned. A trainer teaches tricks, a dog behaviorist deals with behavior of a dog. While you can take a scientific approach to dog behavior, unfortunately this is the same "title" - there isn't a different word to describe that, only to list their degrees or certifications along with it. However, that still makes Cesar a dog behaviorist. Also reference to the "Animal Behavior Society" is beyond absurd, who cares about that and their small handful of people they've chosen to certify... And what importance do they hold? Seems like advertizing for this 'society' more than anything. Oogles 04:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Response to Producer

Elonka has stated that credible websites indeed consider Cesar Millan to be a "dog behaviourist"; however, I don't believe National Geographic.com or TMZ.com were being as cautious as we are in designating who or what is a dog behaviourist; when National Geographic made the statement; "dog behaviourist to the stars" (something like that); the author of that line may not have been cautious or aware of the meaning being that term. Also, I wouldn't consider TMZ.com to be a very verifiable source.

However, the possibility that the Producer of The Dog Whisperer does not call Cesar Millan a "dog behaviourist" does not mean he isn't one; it just means it's his/her belief. Also, even if Cesar Millan himself calls himself a dog behaviour expert and not a "dog behaviourist", without the reasons for it (or if the reasons don't "work"), it STILL doesn't mean Cesar Millan isn't a dog-behaviourist. It could be that Cesar Millan is unaware of the qualifiers, or rather, the lack of qualifiers to identify oneself as a dog-behaviourist (or that he's playing it safe). It could also be that the Producer of the show wants to avoid any complications; so s/he would rather call Millan a dog-behaviour-expert. It STILL does not mean he isn't one. If Steven Spielberg stated that he wasn't a film-director; the Wikipedia article on him would still call him a film-director, because the definitions would match with his occupation. THe only thing that would change in the article is perhaps having a smaller paragraph stating that Spielberg doesn't view himself as a film-director (he does; I'm just speaking hypothetically).

I'm not sure what Cesar Millan should be designated in this article. It's possible to have a short statement saying that neither Cesar Millan nor his Producers believe/call him a dog-behaviourist (and give possible reasons why they do this). But I think it's best to still refer to him as a behaviourist; but to note as an aside that he has no college degree; but also, that the dog-behaviorist title does not require a degree -- unlike the position of being a Doctor, for example (which requires permission from the government).

So, I think the key is to try to find a verifiable source which helps define what it means to be a "dog behaviourist"; not to try and find if "credible" sources call Cesar Millan a dog behaviourist. Both may contradict; but there's only one truth.


For the exec. producer of the show: as long as there is a credible source (an article for example; because unfortunately, it is hard to verify whether or not your are indeed the producer of the show) stating that Cesar was not associated with the dog or it's owner, than it could be included in this Wikipedia entry. I for one believe you, but this just isn't how Wikipedia handles things (and I agree with this policy); so I'd advise you to issue a statement to a credible news source saying that Millan was not associated with the dog or owner, and that another behaviourist was. It seems that there are no current sources that help to clarify this. National Geographic's official statement only vaguely says that Cesar Millan was not there at the time of the incident. Oh, and I'd like to say that I enjoyed your book, and am also a big fan of the show. 24.23.51.27 05:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] American Humane Society

So, I've just read the statement released by the AHS; asking the National Geographic channel to stop airing these episodes; and accusing Millan of inhumane practice. What I don't think AHS realizes is that most or a lot of these dogs that Millan is hired to "fix" are "red zone" cases; or cases that are beyond repair. In any normal circumstance, a professional trainer (possibly one associated with the AHS) would not be able to help improve the dog and fix the problems; and in the case of an aggressive one, they would simply recommend that it be put down. The site states that AHS believes there are other options to euthanizing a dog... and yet they seek to shut down Cesar Millan? When after many trained certified professionals have tried to re-balance a dog and have failed, Cesar Millan was always the person who was up to the task. If it wasn't for his "harsh" or "inhumane" techniques; than the dogs probably would have continued to act out aggressively and attack people -- and possibly be euthanized. When Millan says that "no dog needs to be euthanized", that "all dogs can change"; he means it. Even if it means using a choke collar, or a, god forbid, shock-collar (although with his skills, I think this is a little excessive). And placing a dog onto the ground (otherwise known as the Alpha roll) is too excessive? Have the AHS ever heard of the phrase, "drastic times call for drastic measures"? When a dog is recommended for death roll by the top trainers and its only hope is Cesar Millan, you better hope he does whatever he can to save that dog's life. The AHS needs to stop beeing pansies and realize that sometimes, you just need to be harsh. The end result is well worth it in my opinion. 24.23.51.27 13:43, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Well said. If you can find any editorial/article anywhere with a similar view, I think it would be a worthwhile addition to the article, to represent a balanced view. So far, it looks like the press isn't giving a lot of attention to the AHS letter, anyway. It's also ironic, considering that just a couple weeks earlier, Millan was in the press, for raising money for a different Humane society organization [4]. We may want to add that to the Wikipedia article. --Elonka 18:59, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
I find it difficult to fathom the AHS's motives with the letter. If there really are verifiable instances of animal cruelty featured on the show, then a simple law suit could have been used instead of a letter. Even the threat of a law suit would probably have been enough to cause the producers to change or stop the show. On the other hand, if the animal cruelty alleged is, let us say, subjective and dependent on the point of view of the viewer, then AHS might not have been able to sue, and thus a letter might have been their only remaining option. Either way, I know a lot of dog-friendly people who don't see the show as cruel, and consider "firm and consistent" training to be much better for a dog than trying to be the dog's best friend all the time. So I think the whole debate about what is cruel and what is simply firm rather subjective. Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 07:40, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
On what do you base the assumption that only Millan works with "red zone" cases? Thousands of behavior consultants and certified behaviorists work with and help (or "rehabilitate") these types of cases on a daily basis. And they do not simply recommend that the dogs be euthanized. This is pure marketing on Millan's and NG's part, with no factual evidence. There is also no evidence that the people he works with on the show have worked with other trainers/behaviorists...or have done any training at all before they came to him. There are other options to working with aggression cases and Millan himself admits that his way is not the only way. These types of baseless assumptions are exactly what the AHS and other professional organizations (made up of those who regularly and successfully work with dogs with behavior problems) are seeking to dispel.

[edit] Alpha rôle or alpha roll?

Can someone clarify which is correct here? If we're talking playing the part of the alpha male, then presumably this should be "alpha rôle". But if the roll in question is a body rolling over, then alpha roll. I do not know, but noticed that this was the latest correction made (see here [5]. Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 14:12, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

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