Talk:Cave Lion
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[edit] Normally a subspecies or species?
Dear 195.229.242.53:
Your recent edit of this article produced the following sentence:
- It is normally considered a subspecies of lion, with the scientific name of Panthera leo spelaeus (which means "cave lion" in Latin); but it is normally considered a species in its own right, under the name Panthera spelaeus.
What on earth is that supposed to mean? It's normally one, or it's normally the other. Not both, they're exclusive. Please clarify.
eritain 02:31, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Cave Lion size
A size of 235 kilos would make this species about the size of a Bengal tiger. How can you claim that this species was bigger than a Siberian tiger which weighs about 300 kilos?
- Good catch. It looks like 235kg was on the lower side of the animal's weight range: it could weigh up to 400kg [1]. I've changed the article to reflect this. bcasterlinetalk 13:20, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
The size stated is not accurate. Being 25% larger than a male lion would place this cat at range between 600 and 650 lb. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.161.203.18 (talk • contribs) 23:14, 26 July 2006.
- The 25% is what's inaccurate. According to this source, they weighed between 250 to 400 kg. -- bcasterline • talk 15:12, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
The article also said that the cave lion was the largest cat that existed, though both the Siberian tiger and liger are larger, both about 12 feet long and around 800-850 pounds, respectfully, while the cave lion is only 11.5 feet long and around 700 pounds. Though the cave lion was bigger than the modern African lion, it wasn't the largest cat. 19:52, 20 September 2006 (UTC)64.107.164.130
- It wasn't indeed the largest cat (Ligers are not true cat species or breeds, just hybrids). Howevers, they were the largest lions [2]. Changed this. Peter Maas 08:52, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
GOD! I'm tired of all the dumb tiger fanboys talking about the Siberian Tiger being 800 lb!!! The average for the cat is a little over 500 lb. The Cave Lion was the largest, natural cat of all time. It's that simple. Ligers are not natural.
[edit] Realism in article
I posted something similair to this in the Cave Bear article.
Fossils are preserved better in caves, so assuming that an animal whose fossils were found in a cave lived mostly in caves is inaccurate. Our fossils might be found only in caves in 10,000 years.
The Cave Lion probably mostly did not live in caves.
[edit] sources needed
The article needs sources to support some of its claims, such as this one: "there are some indications it may have existed as recently as 2,000 years ago, in the Balkans." Edrigu 20:32, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
- speciments????
- Indeed specimens. Any scientific or other source that mentiones this date and how they came up with it.Peter Maas 15:41, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Subspecies
There are three subspecies of lion, which are often called cave lion:
- American cave lion (P. l. atrox)
- Upper pleistocene cave lion (P. l. spelea)
- Early middle pleistocene cave lion (P. l. fossilis)
Which subspecies should be content of this site? I would prefer to limit this article strictly to P. l. spelea. Than I would create a lemma for Panthera leo fossilis. What would be a proper name for that side? In my view Early middle pleistocene cave lion is to long. Is Panthera leo fossilis good, or is it allowed to take the translation from the German Name "Mosbacher Löwe", perhaps like Mosbacher lion. -Altai 10:55, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Early middle pleistocene cave lion is indeed too long. I would use the scientific name. A recent source [3] names even 4 cave lions: Panthera leo fossilis (Early Middle Pleistocene European cave lion), Panthera leo vereshchagini (East Siberian and Beringian cave lion), Panthera leo atrox (North American cave lion), and the Panthera leo spelaea (Upper Pleistocene European cave lion). I would leave this lemma for the Cave lion Panthera leo spelaea. Peter Maas 11:29, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
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- Oh, yes, you are right. I know this paper and actually it seems that there is at least one more subspecies: Panthera (leo) youngi. By the way: My sources say, that Panthera leo spelea was in genral a bit smaller, than it is described in this article. I think that is due to the confusion with Panthera leo fossilis, which was bigger than spelea. But I dont want to have a discussion like Talk:Tiger.
- However; I also think, that the scientific name Pantehra leo fossilis is the most uncontroversial. So I will write this article soon.--Altaileopard 18:15, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- The number of subspecies varies indeed. Sometimes these different lions are seen as full species or as subspecies of Panthera leo. I'm looking forward to the new lemma. (By the way, I already created a lemma for Panthera leo vereshchagini.) Peter Maas 10:37, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- OK, fossilis is alive. Thanks for your vereshchagini. I have done an edit in Panthera leo vereshchagini as you may already have seen probably, but I am not shure if it was definitely right. Was vereshchagini really smaller than spelea?--Altaileopard 18:19, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
