Talk:Carryduff

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The last paragraph indicates that sectarian grafitti is a recent phenomenon - I can assure the writer that is not the case ;-) As far back as 1980's some sectarian hedgehead had scrawled "King Out" in red paint on Killynure Road.

The Carryduff Library was not built in the 90's, it should be introduced in the preceeding paragraph.

Yeah, the library (and Killinure House old people's home) were built in about 1981 - I remember jumping about playing on the mounds of earth on the building site beforehand.

And I remember when before the Killynure Estate was even built! It was all green fields in my day. No graffiti then! --feline1 16:04, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes and the carryduff centre was just a caravan park!

[edit] "Irish" name

I have removed this name for now, as I have been unable to verify its source (it appears on a website called "Culture NI", but no references are provided there, and the website have not replied to any of my email queries over the past 2 weeks). I was born in Carryduff and lived there over 20 years and have never seen reference to it having an "Irish" name. I suspect the one from the Culture NI website is a retro-translation of the "English" name? Can anyone provide a reference to an Irish placename being used for Carryduff. (Is "Carryduff" not simply an Anglicised spelling of the original placename anyways?)--feline1 14:18, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ceathrú Aodha Dhuibh

'Ceathrú Aodha Dhuibh' was the old Irish name for the area, has been used for a long time, and has appeared on OSI (Ordnance Survey Ireland) Atlas of Ireland since it was first published. But, the translation is 'black-haired Hugh’s quarter'. I do not know of the origins of the name, myself.

It was me whom originally wrote the name, and the Irish language article too; http://ga.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceathr%C3%BA_Aodha_Dhuibh

More info

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8308/logainm.html http://www.carryduffgac.com

@ 14.05, 29/05/2006

Hmmm, well I suppose we're getting somewhere with this now! Do you have a proper reference for the OSI Atlas (what date was this original publication?). I wonder what year Irish would have been supplanted by English as the general spoken language used by the inhabitants of the settlement? Would it have been in the 16th or 17th centuries? THe name "Carryduff" and other townland names (Killinure, Ballynagarrick) are presumeably older than this. What I really want to get to the nub of is: to what extent is "Ceathrú Aodha Dhuibh" the "original" name? or is it a retro-translation back into Irish of "Carryduff"? My Irish orthography is rather weak - but I know, for instance, there's no letter "y", and "bh" is phonetically equivalent to "ff" - to what extent is "Ceathrú Aodha Dhuibh" just the same word, just spelt in Irish orthography? "-duff", for instance, is an extremely common placename suffix in Northern Ireland.--feline1 22:18, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

You've probably a good point. The'OSI (Ordnance Survey Ireland) Atlas of Ireland' was last published in 2004 (I think there may be a new one comming out in 2006). When did it start? This specific publication replaced older ones, and was brought out in 1998. Though I do have another map with the name on it from the 1980's. However this is all irrelavant to the authenticity of the name. In relation to the orthography, the name was probably lost from the area with the language. But i'm pretty sure that Crathrú Aodha Dhuibh (presently pronounced Cyeh-roo ee-ah gwee) isn't just the phonetic equivalent of Carryduff. Indeed, it was Carryduff that was the phonetic equivalent of the original East Ulster Gaelic dialect (which of course is now extinct, as all learners of the language in the region nowadays study the Western Ulster (Donegal) dialect (hense the present pronounciation)). Though native Irish speakers (I am unfortunately not one) can easily understand the meaning of the placenames and can find out the originals fairly easily. I really can only advise you to ask the department of Celtic Studies in Queen's University, Belfast for more information PS - Killinure Cill an Iúir (Church of the Yew Tree) Ballynagarrick Baile na gCarraige (Townland of the Rock) Knockbracken Cnoc Breacáin (I don't know the meaning) I believe that explanations of the placnames of the area can be found in the Linen Hall Library, Belfast, amongst other areas.

Thanks for the additional info. I would be inclinded to reason that even though the East Ulster Irish dialect became extinct (supplanted with English), that the people would continue to use the same placenames - thus "Carryduff" (phonetically) is still the original Irish name... and retro-translations into the orthography of a Donegal accent are a bit dubious. Having said that, vowels and consonants do tend to shift over centuries, and it must have been 3 or more centuries since Irish was the native tongue in that part of County Down. I live in Brighton at the moment so I can't easily get to the Linenhall library to check though!--feline1 09:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)